Scout Motors - who are your competitors?

[Mousehunter]

Using a glass/foam/glass layup is not all that uncommon in the composite world. My aftermarket top has chopped glass, foam, and glass - with some other reinforcement - it has a dynamic load rating of 600lbs. It is only slightly heavier than the stock top, but much stronger. I have some very light weight kayaks and canoes that use fiberglass, carbon fiber, or kevlar cloth as the outerlayers with the foam core. My old competition boat was about 21lbs (using a mix of all three fabrics where each one's attributes are the most beneficial), and my kevlar 17' canoe is probably just over 30lbs. Not saying they are super durable though, they are high performance competition boats. The problem with hand laid vacuum bagging is it is kind of labor intensive - which makes the method fairly expensive. Sure, it would have been cool if my hard top was 50lbs lighter (not as if you are going to save any weight on the windows or hardeare), but not so cool to increase the price by several thousand.

 

[J Alynn]

Using a glass/foam/glass layup is not all that uncommon in the composite world. My aftermarket top has chopped glass, foam, and glass - with some other reinforcement - it has a dynamic load rating of 600lbs. It is only slightly heavier than the stock top, but much stronger. I have some very light weight kayaks and canoes that use fiberglass, carbon fiber, or kevlar cloth as the outerlayers with the foam core. My old competition boat was about 21lbs (using a mix of all three fabrics where each one's attributes are the most beneficial), and my kevlar 17' canoe is probably just over 30lbs. Not saying they are super durable though, they are high performance competition boats. The problem with hand laid vacuum bagging is it is kind of labor intensive - which makes the method fairly expensive. Sure, it would have been cool if my hard top was 50lbs lighter (not as if you are going to save any weight on the windows or hardeare), but not so cool to increase the price by several thousand.

I like this feedback but heading of thread is “who are your competitors”. Might be better to move it to a thread more related to tops. Not the end of the world but others may be missing it and could have good feedback to your thoughts. Just my thoughts FWIW

 

[Albal]

Here’s a new one, for me at least. The “thar.e”

This is the rugged electric 4x4 SUV we've been waiting for, and it's not a Jeep Wrangler

Meet the new all-electric Thar.e rugged SUV concept. The electric 4×4 looks like a modern-day Jeep Wrangler EV, but it’s...

electrek.co

It’s based on the vw meb platform.

let the bad puns commence!

 

[LastDayScout]

Here’s a new one, for me at least. The “thar.e”

This is the rugged electric 4x4 SUV we've been waiting for, and it's not a Jeep Wrangler

Meet the new all-electric Thar.e rugged SUV concept. The electric 4×4 looks like a modern-day Jeep Wrangler EV, but it’s...

electrek.co

It’s based on the vw meb platform.

let the bad puns commence!

I stared at that for a while. It looks strange…kinda like how when people lift crossovers like a Highlander or pilot. By that I mean how the body rides on the chassis.

 

[J Alynn]

Here’s a new one, for me at least. The “thar.e”

This is the rugged electric 4x4 SUV we've been waiting for, and it's not a Jeep Wrangler

Meet the new all-electric Thar.e rugged SUV concept. The electric 4×4 looks like a modern-day Jeep Wrangler EV, but it’s...

electrek.co

It’s based on the vw meb platform.

let the bad puns commence!

I think there are certain aspects that are cool. A bit too futuristic for me and screams “we benchmarked/stole Jeep design cues but better than some I’ve seen
One thing I think is very successful is the hidden rear doors. At first glance it looks two door but brain say

I stared at that for a while. It looks strange…kinda like how when people lift crossovers like a Highlander or pilot. By that I mean how the body rides on the chassis.

i get what you are saying. I think part of that is it’s SO high but the wheels/tires are NOT a good proportion. I also think the rear well sheet metal just bulges too much. Ride too close to a biker and you might clip them it sticks out so far

 

[R1TVT]

So a Jeep mated with one of those mini-hummers and they had a baby EV?

 

[sambown]

Well said.
I’ll be curious what the younger demographic ends up doing because oddly I think they will embrace it. My daughter has no understanding of early broncos and scouts-heritage angle- but she Loves her Bronco because it’s unique and it’s convertible. Not to mention she’s patiently waiting for a 2” lift and larger wheels -all for looks, she has no intention of off-roading. I do wonder if it doesn’t have a soft top if that will impact younger buyers due to cost. Going to be an interesting two year ride

I am responding to this for two reasons: It is talking about the younger demographic, and scout competitors. I just turned 25 this month, but I have owned a scout and grew up in the back of many of my dad's. Scouts literally were my childhood, it was my dad's only hobby to wheel these things all weekend, and work on them all week to get them ready for the next weekend. I may be an abnormality in the younger demographic, but I do not want this to be just a grocery getter. I fully intend to buy one of these upon release, and take it directly to the trails. I hope to spend an equal amount of time on pavement as I do in the dirt, just as I grew up doing. Knowing a few of my friends, who did not grow up like me and were far wealthier, and were into other things, they love the new bronco. It is their way to enjoy something in the summer with the top down, and it gives them looks as they drive by in it, that is pretty much it. They have no clue about bronco heritage, scout heritage, or any vehicle that was not made before 1998.

As far as competitors go, PLEASE do not make this compete with the Bronco Sport, Defender, Blazer, Grand Cherokee, etc. Those are NOT off road vehicles, they are pavement princesses (as we called them back when I was younger).

Please make the new scout off-road capable. Not like the Hummer EV where it is extreme in every way shape and form, or a rivian that is capable enough but sticks out like a sore thumb on trails because of how incredibly luxurious they are. But something I can hunt in, take to my father-in law's cattle ranch, take camping in the cascades, or take to my local hill-climbing trails. The bronco does this well, as it offers a base model that is not capable of doing those things, but appeals to younger people who cannot afford or simply do not want the higher off road trims. Then you can upgrade it to the point of surviving the apocalypse.

Mostly what I am trying to say is please make this compete with the bronco, not the bronco sport. The bronco sport is not an offroad vehicle. Now if you give it lockers, bigger tires, a bumper, and better offroad modes? Nope still not an offroader, not enough ground clearance, not enough size, just simply not enough. Make it compete with the bronco, where the base model is for the grocery getter, but I can also get one that competes with a Bronco Sasquatch, wrangler rubicon, etc.

 

[TaconicBear]

Using a glass/foam/glass layup is not all that uncommon in the composite world. My aftermarket top has chopped glass, foam, and glass - with some other reinforcement - it has a dynamic load rating of 600lbs. It is only slightly heavier than the stock top, but much stronger. I have some very light weight kayaks and canoes that use fiberglass, carbon fiber, or kevlar cloth as the outerlayers with the foam core. My old competition boat was about 21lbs (using a mix of all three fabrics where each one's attributes are the most beneficial), and my kevlar 17' canoe is probably just over 30lbs. Not saying they are super durable though, they are high performance competition boats. The problem with hand laid vacuum bagging is it is kind of labor intensive - which makes the method fairly expensive. Sure, it would have been cool if my hard top was 50lbs lighter (not as if you are going to save any weight on the windows or hardeare), but not so cool to increase the price by several thousand.

I am responding to this for two reasons: It is talking about the younger demographic, and scout competitors. I just turned 25 this month, but I have owned a scout and grew up in the back of many of my dad's. Scouts literally were my childhood, it was my dad's only hobby to wheel these things all weekend, and work on them all week to get them ready for the next weekend. I may be an abnormality in the younger demographic, but I do not want this to be just a grocery getter. I fully intend to buy one of these upon release, and take it directly to the trails. I hope to spend an equal amount of time on pavement as I do in the dirt, just as I grew up doing. Knowing a few of my friends, who did not grow up like me and were far wealthier, and were into other things, they love the new bronco. It is their way to enjoy something in the summer with the top down, and it gives them looks as they drive by in it, that is pretty much it. They have no clue about bronco heritage, scout heritage, or any vehicle that was not made before 1998.

As far as competitors go, PLEASE do not make this compete with the Bronco Sport, Defender, Blazer, Grand Cherokee, etc. Those are NOT off road vehicles, they are pavement princesses (as we called them back when I was younger).

Please make the new scout off-road capable. Not like the Hummer EV where it is extreme in every way shape and form, or a rivian that is capable enough but sticks out like a sore thumb on trails because of how incredibly luxurious they are. But something I can hunt in, take to my father-in law's cattle ranch, take camping in the cascades, or take to my local hill-climbing trails. The bronco does this well, as it offers a base model that is not capable of doing those things, but appeals to younger people who cannot afford or simply do not want the higher off road trims. Then you can upgrade it to the point of surviving the apocalypse.

Mostly what I am trying to say is please make this compete with the bronco, not the bronco sport. The bronco sport is not an offroad vehicle. Now if you give it lockers, bigger tires, a bumper, and better offroad modes? Nope still not an offroader, not enough ground clearance, not enough size, just simply not enough. Make it compete with the bronco, where the base model is for the grocery getter, but I can also get one that competes with a Bronco Sasquatch, wrangler rubicon, etc.

@sambown / I like your analysis. I hope you are correct, but when I consider the realities of getting these new Scouts on the streets of North America the denigrations you cite - Pavement Princess & Grocery Getter - Mall Crawler (my addition) - come swiftly to mind. People like yourself and those who would use them off-road in their work will never buy enough to make this financially possible. SM is going to have to sell hundreds of thousands of these to the suburban convenience and ego crowd to be able to equip a small fraction of the production for buyers like rock-crawlers and the linemen, foresters, farmers, geologists, etc. who demand and need tough trucks. The trick for SM will be to develop a core that primarily serves category A yet is robust and capable of being adapted to the needs of category B. // Which gets to me thinking that if there is a Tough Scout variant (for my category B buyers) maybe its sales could take a page from the IH past. If it were sold and supported by truck (Navistar, Traton) and farm/tractor dealers (Case, Kubota, Mahindra) it might provide a dealer support focus and solve the problems (discussed in other threads) of distribution and support.

 

[J Alynn]

@sambown / I like your analysis. I hope you are correct, but when I consider the realities of getting these new Scouts on the streets of North America the denigrations you cite - Pavement Princess & Grocery Getter - Mall Crawler (my addition) - come swiftly to mind. People like yourself and those who would use them off-road in their work will never buy enough to make this financially possible. SM is going to have to sell hundreds of thousands of these to the suburban convenience and ego crowd to be able to equip a small fraction of the production for buyers like rock-crawlers and the linemen, foresters, farmers, geologists, etc. who demand and need tough trucks. The trick for SM will be to develop a core that primarily serves category A yet is robust and capable of being adapted to the needs of category B. // Which gets to me thinking that if there is a Tough Scout variant (for my category B buyers) maybe its sales could take a page from the IH past. If it were sold and supported by truck (Navistar, Traton) and farm/tractor dealers (Case, Kubota, Mahindra) it might provide a dealer support focus and solve the problems (discussed in other threads) of distribution and support.

That’s a really cool take on things. I can support that 100%

 

[LastDayScout]

@sambown / I like your analysis. I hope you are correct, but when I consider the realities of getting these new Scouts on the streets of North America the denigrations you cite - Pavement Princess & Grocery Getter - Mall Crawler (my addition) - come swiftly to mind. People like yourself and those who would use them off-road in their work will never buy enough to make this financially possible. SM is going to have to sell hundreds of thousands of these to the suburban convenience and ego crowd to be able to equip a small fraction of the production for buyers like rock-crawlers and the linemen, foresters, farmers, geologists, etc. who demand and need tough trucks. The trick for SM will be to develop a core that primarily serves category A yet is robust and capable of being adapted to the needs of category B. // Which gets to me thinking that if there is a Tough Scout variant (for my category B buyers) maybe its sales could take a page from the IH past. If it were sold and supported by truck (Navistar, Traton) and farm/tractor dealers (Case, Kubota, Mahindra) it might provide a dealer support focus and solve the problems (discussed in other threads) of distribution and support.

Yep, I agree. I absolutely think there should be an off road oriented trim or version. But, I personally do not off road anymore. However, I miss my 1980 Scout II and I can’t wait to see what a modern version with little to no compromises looks like! I think there are plenty of people interested in Scout that will do never do any serious off-roading.

 

[sambown]

I keep watching videos on the electric scout competitors, and I see them doing a lot right, but also a lot wrong. The two primary vehicles I like to watch videos on are the Hummer EV (Truck and SUV), and the Rivian R1 (T and S). Here are some things I think both get right, strictly in an off-road aspect.
Pros for Both:
- Adjustable air suspension
- Ease of airing down and airing back up (air compressor on Rivian, digitally on Hummer EV)

Hummer EV Pros:
- Rear wheel steering
- All the body cameras
Rivian Pros:
- Lighter than the Hummer EV

Cons For BOTH:
- Super heavy (I know, natural with EV, but 4.5 tons, really Hummer?)
- No TRUE front and rear lockers (So many videos show tires turning with the least resistance)
- Long wheelbases

I will attach some videos below. I like the videos where people compare these vehicles to ICE SUVs we have come to know quite well. The video by edmunds shows the Rivian competes with the Gladiator, and toward the end would likely beat it with a true rear locker. TFLTruck video shows that the hummer is just too wide and heavy allow for any true agility on the trails.

1.) Edmunds - Rivian vs Gladiator

2.) Hummer EV vs Bronco

Lets get some real lockers (as many have stated on this forum so far), and make the size a bit more manageable on the Scout!

 

[R1TVT]

R1T and R1S have different wheelbases. Also with Rivian you can get 4 motors or 2. I'm not sure it matters given the amount of torque you can send, but the dual motor versions have fewer drive modes in the OFF ROAD SETTING . And let's face it, the Hummer is a buffoon of a truck overcompensating for everything... I don't think Scout has any aspirations to be anywhere in the shadow of the Hummer's ginormous footprint. I wouldn't be surprised a bit if the Scout's footprint was almost identical to the R1S footprint, but we'll see,

 

[Kris K]

No doubt. A lot of people are NOT going to jump in head first, and yes, I would consider myself to be an early adopter. Catering to people that want ICE-only is not what the new Scout is about though. That decision has been made, and I think it is a good one. Buying an ICE vehicle right now (at least for a daily driver or primary vehicle) almost seems like you are buying obsolete technology. I only say this after 1 full year of owning my R1T. You mention this 4-Runner driver towing his camper across country, and I would agree 100% that this demographic probably should not consider EV's at this stage, simply due to an increased frequency in charging stops and time required to charge, compared to ICE, due to the increased need for either kWh or gas. If you are an OEM today (or let's just say you are SCOUT), are you building a vehicle for a demographic that tows a trailer across the country, or are you building a factory for a much larger demographic, which also includes daily drivers?

My choice to go E/V and with Rivian was a personal choice, and was made with some of the following criteria in mind:

1. I am an outdoorsman - and I love my winter sports. If you care about the environment at all, then EV's are a net positive
2. I 100% aligned with the features of an EV truck with a range of over 300+ miles, tons of storage, solid off-road capability and modern tech
3. I ordered in 2019, so I did benefit from the earlier pricing and all of the incentives
4. I believed in the mission statement, and trusted the emphasis on adventure AND performance (0-60 in 3 seconds is INSANE)
5. I tow a boat locally from time to time. 11K pounds of towing capacity is no joke.
6. I had installed solar on the roof of my home (only increases your payback period when installing a home charger)
7. Gas prices were crazy and kept going up, and I do care about mileage & efficiency & value
8. Maintenance is pretty non-existent, other than swapping winter tires for AT's
9. Whats not to like about innovation from an American company that is building a truck IN AMERICA?
10. To the point above, this was the most patriotic, large purchase I have ever made, other than a new home.

Bear with me, but I think there is still a lot of mis-guided and mis-directed hate on EV's, b/c people now categorize everything as left or right. right or wrong, Democrat or Republican. A lot of us are fed up with this, we think independently and we can be both socially progressive and economically conservative. You don't need to be a Conservative to be a conservationist, and you don't need to be a liberal to drive an EV. Sorry, but that is why we have so much division today. I don't want to turn this into a political debate at all, but if we are being honest, a lot of people simply don't like what they don't understand. In the case of this new Scout, we already see Scout addressing some of the things listed above. Those things drew me to Rivian with their initial launch.... "A new factory, a company that produces something strong and smart, a company that respects its people AND the planet, Americans would appreciate it, it will be fun, it will right wrongs, it will lead with respect, one from a brand that helped build and defend America, one helluva truck" ETC... We see all this here:

I would say that Scout is being very intentional and targeted in the Demographic that will become life-long new Scout fans (starting in 2026). This might sound crass, but if you loved your Scout 40 years ago, and you were 40 at the time, you are likely not going to be in that "long-term" Demographic. But, if I were 80 years old, and I once owned a Scout and had 1 more car left in me, you better believe I would be looking at the new Scout when it drops. That just isn't where all the buying power for this new Scout will be coming from, if we are being 100% honest. Scout will be a business, and the business needs some mass appeal for sure as an OEM, in order to thrive and be successful. Scout has a really good shot at this!

I realize that no current version (or probably concept) exists that would internationally target SA, especially Brazil. A smaller (compact) version would be a great concept and strategy to consider. Brazil has lifted many tarifs on goods necessary for EV production and will trend upwards as time goes by.

When I was at Rivian, a similar idea for a smaller vehicle was in the works, but has since changed from that original (Volta (I believe that was it's name?) Smaller Jeeps (Renegade, etc) are what is being offered to the population to fit into their consumers market desires.

So, approach this demographic area with a "Compact" Scout, and start to eliminate Natural gas, ethanol, and already banned Diesel fuel.
Plus, I still see Volkswagen buses around, which shows a long lasting, durable, and trusted Volkswagen (Scout-Parent) brand.

Tap the market share as quickly as possible. SA needs it, supports it, and probably prefer/trust a non-Chinese based company.

 

[R1TVT]

When I was at Rivian, a similar idea for a smaller vehicle was in the works, but has since changed from that original (Volta (I believe that was it's name?) Smaller Jeeps (Renegade, etc) are what is being offered to the population to fit into their consumers market desires.

Sounds like you must have left before R2 was developed? The Scout will likely benefit from launching something close to what you want, but like Rivian, it will likely be done as a "PHASE II" initiative. The first models will likely appeal to a broader base and help get the flywheel spinning for the business to pursue the next set of trucks.

 

[Kris K]

Sounds like you must have left before R2 was developed? The Scout will likely benefit from launching something close to what you want, but like Rivian, it will likely be done as a "PHASE II" initiative. The first models will likely appeal to a broader base and help get the flywheel spinning for the business to pursue the next set of trucks.

Yes, You are correct. I along with the rest (mostly) when their HQ moved from Plymouth. The R2 was not what their concept was. It was a smaller passenger car, obviously that has evolved. Your VP of V&V is very aware of the Jeep comparisons. I worked with his Group for the MP, I believe. It's been a while, but I believe BUs were the initial donor vehicles during early Mule phases.

 

[J Alynn]

Not really a Jeep fan and realize this is aftermarket but really cool concepts here. If SM could offer unique concepts like this every couple years it would be an awesome approach. I realize Jeep does unique styles periodically but it’s still just mixing up the parts bins. Doing a handful of one offs-say 200 a year would be a unique offering direct from factory.
IMHO

Alpine Rebel Off Road Edition - Brigade

Practical and tactical, Brigade comes fully equipped with everything you need for your next off-road adventure.

www.alpine-usa.com

 

[J Alynn]

Not really a Jeep fan and realize this is aftermarket but really cool concepts here. If SM could offer unique concepts like this every couple years it would be an awesome approach. I realize Jeep does unique styles periodically but it’s still just mixing up the parts bins. Doing a handful of one offs-say 200 a year would be a unique offering direct from factory.
IMHO

Alpine Rebel Off Road Edition - Brigade

Practical and tactical, Brigade comes fully equipped with everything you need for your next off-road adventure.

www.alpine-usa.com

Here’s another view of the SUV concept

تسجيل الدخول إلى فيسبوك

قم بتسجيل الدخول إلى فيسبوك لبدء المشاركة والتواصل مع أصدقائك وعائلتك والأشخاص الذين تعرفهم.

www.facebook.com

 

[J Alynn]

Since we see a lot of references to Ineos here’s a new article about them going ‘smaller’
I know the first release Scouts will be larger based on full size pick up comments. Just figured it was worth listing that the shift for smaller 4x4’s is international.

'Definitely a big market' for smaller 4X4s, but will companies like Ineos build Suzuki Jimny-sized 4WDs to meet demand? - Car News

As demand for full-sized American utes seems to be approaching a plateau, small SUVs with some off-road nous like the Suzuki Jimny are on the way up in terms of sales this year.

www.carsguide.com.au

 

[JohnnyScout]

Since we see a lot of references to Ineos here’s a new article about them going ‘smaller’
I know the first release Scouts will be larger based on full size pick up comments. Just figured it was worth listing that the shift for smaller 4x4’s is international.

'Definitely a big market' for smaller 4X4s, but will companies like Ineos build Suzuki Jimny-sized 4WDs to meet demand? - Car News

As demand for full-sized American utes seems to be approaching a plateau, small SUVs with some off-road nous like the Suzuki Jimny are on the way up in terms of sales this year.

www.carsguide.com.au

Unfortunately Ineos has pushed back the Fusilier to the very back burner and turned the burner off.

 

[J Alynn]

Unfortunately Ineos has pushed back the Fusilier to the very back burner and turned the burner off.

That’s what I thought but reading the article made it sound otherwise so I wondered if they pulled in funding/investors to keep it rolling?