Scout Motors - who are your competitors?

[Harumph]

Toyota Tacoma for comparison...meaning handling characteristics, footprint, off-road capability... and even reliability?
Makes sense.
How about also considering a Bronco for comparison? There's even talk about a Bronco Truck, similar to what Jeep did with the Gladiator.
R1T and S have also been brought up.

I like the direction Scout is taking using a body-on ladder frame chassis.

I do think it makes sense for Scout designers to select the class leaders for comparison, regardless if it happens to be an EV or ICE.

@scoutmotors What are your thoughts about dimensions for the Rugged SUV and Truck?

I have fond memories about my grandad's 800. He special ordered it in a olive drab color used by a utility company and had to wait 3 extra months for the next fleet order in that color before his could be built. His only regret though was ordering the 4 cyl just before International announced the 8 cyl.

 

[Albal]

There are 2 upcoming Scouts, 1 is an SUV and 1 a truck. The R1S will be a direct competitor to the Scout SUV, and the R1T to the Scout Truck. Not sure where you get the "poor to average" ride quality. The truck and SUV both ride so well, with multiple drive modes and ride heights. I would say that ride quality has to be super dependent on ride settings, wheels, tires and tire pressure. Some people that were complaining initially were coming out of cars (and had never driven a truck, let alone a EV truck). It takes some getting used to when your settings (for example) are in SPORT mode with HIGH REGEN and STIFF suspension on 22" wheels with skinny sidewalls. The 20's in ALL PURPOSE mode with SOFT suspension settings at AT's make the R1T one of the best riding trucks I have ever been in. For the R1S, they also did a SW update to improve ride quality. I swear, half the people complaining don't actually know how to change the settings! LOL

Good to know about the Rivian ride quality - too bad I didn't get in early! I got my impression of Rivian ride quality from early youtube videos (authoritative, I know! ). As I recall, before they came out Rivian said they were targeting luxury SUV ride quality (I think they mentioned some Audi Q-something explicitly) and looking at their high-tech suspension gave great expectations.

I am familiar with how trucks tend to ride (grew up in an 800A, which was my first truck and have had some others as well). But also, I tend to measure things on an absolute scale, not an in-category scale. There are some trucks with a reputation of luxury car ride quality (the Ram pickup when equipped with air suspension and a few SUVs, for example), so I think it can be done. Especially with things like modern adaptive suspensions that are trickling down to cheaper models.

I hope the Scout team is familiar with how good things can get in a vehicle regardless of type. If their knowledge is restricted, then they won't even realize what is possible and I think soon to be common. After a lifetime of trucks, sports cars and generic cars (corolla, camry, etc) my current luxury car was certainly an eye opener. It simply erases the bumps on the road, yet remains calm and steady. How can people not want that?

 

[Albal]

Here's an idea to pass on, how about taking a Scout to the various hot trail spots around the country before the debut and establish a "Moab Range," a "Rubican Range," "Black Rock Desert Range," etc. Make a list of the hot wheeling areas, go out there and establish range benchmarks THERE! Not just testing from some poor SOB going roundy-round a test course trying to maintain his sanity. Spend a week in Moab (or whereever) hitting the trails within the capability of the Scout EV and you have not only established a good benchmark for that type of terrain, you can certify the Scout as "Moab Trail Tested."

Sounds like a great marketing idea. In addition to addressing range anxiety, is shows that the Scout is capable. It's been there and done that, so you can too.

 

[R1TVT]

Good to know about the Rivian ride quality - too bad I didn't get in early! I got my impression of Rivian ride quality from early youtube videos (authoritative, I know! ). As I recall, before they came out Rivian said they were targeting luxury SUV ride quality (I think they mentioned some Audi Q-something explicitly) and looking at their high-tech suspension gave great expectations.

I am familiar with how trucks tend to ride (grew up in an 800A, which was my first truck and have had some others as well). But also, I tend to measure things on an absolute scale, not an in-category scale. There are some trucks with a reputation of luxury car ride quality (the Ram pickup when equipped with air suspension and a few SUVs, for example), so I think it can be done. Especially with things like modern adaptive suspensions that are trickling down to cheaper models.

I hope the Scout team is familiar with how good things can get in a vehicle regardless of type. If their knowledge is restricted, then they won't even realize what is possible and I think soon to be common. After a lifetime of trucks, sports cars and generic cars (corolla, camry, etc) my current luxury car was certainly an eye opener. It simply erases the bumps on the road, yet remains calm and steady. How can people not want that?

If Scout is after reliability, configurability and durability at a reasonable price point, then a suspension set-up like Rivian's or McLaren's is probably not in the cards. That type of suspension is expensive, doesn't allow for much in the way of modification, and could end up being more costly to maintain.

These are all trade-offs. If Scout wants the above highlighted characteristics for an extremely capable off-road vehicle, the trade-off might be a slightly more stiff and harsh traditional truck ride. As an owner of many trucks in my life, I don't see that as a big problem. However, if you are coming from a cushy cross-over or car and getting your first truck, you will absolutely notice a difference in suspension and handling. If you want truck that erases bumps on the road and crushes it off-road, you will be paying more for that. Perhaps that could be an "option" or upgrade from a base model. Something that would also differentiate Scout. For Scout the trade-off would be needing to support 2 different suspension designs.

 

[J Alynn]

If Scout is after reliability, configurability and durability at a reasonable price point, then a suspension set-up like Rivian's or McLaren's is probably not in the cards. That type of suspension is expensive, doesn't allow for much in the way of modification, and could end up being more costly to maintain.

These are all trade-offs. If Scout wants the above highlighted characteristics for an extremely capable off-road vehicle, the trade-off might be a slightly more stiff and harsh traditional truck ride. As an owner of many trucks in my life, I don't see that as a big problem. However, if you are coming from a cushy cross-over or car and getting your first truck, you will absolutely notice a difference in suspension and handling. If you want truck that erases bumps on the road and crushes it off-road, you will be paying more for that. Perhaps that could be an "option" or upgrade from a base model. Something that would also differentiate Scout. For Scout the trade-off would be needing to support 2 different suspension designs.

I wonder with technology today if air suspension as an upgrade could also be set to run in a luxury mode that would soften ride. I suspect it would be difficult to achieve but anti-lock brakes “in theory” do a very similar thing just mechanical vs air. Probably too hard to make it work but that would be a two birds/one stone approach

 

[R1TVT]

Yes, that is essentially what Rivian did with an off-road version of a McLaren-type suspension system, coupled with air / air spring and control arms. The trade-off is cost, configurability and potential service expense in the future (TBD). This is a good video explaining the system and showing how well it compares to other off-roaders like a Gladiator and Raptor: https://insideevs.com/news/573904/rivian-r1t-suspension-flex-test-engineering/

 

[JohnBills]

New Volvo EX30 Buffs Up With Rugged Cross Country Model

The EX30 is handsome, but its Cross Country twin looks downright fun.

www.motortrend.com

This is one that will compete to some degree, I believe. It's a small SUV with an off-road package and will likely fall in the $40k range. What do you all think go it. I'm digging it.

 

[J Alynn]

New Volvo EX30 Buffs Up With Rugged Cross Country Model

The EX30 is handsome, but its Cross Country twin looks downright fun.

www.motortrend.com

This is one that will compete to some degree, I believe. It's a small SUV with an off-road package and will likely fall in the $40k range. What do you all think go it. I'm digging it.
View attachment 1449

Looks like every electric Volvo-I mean Pole Star

 

[R1TVT]

I would 100% Disagree. Cross-overs do not belong in this category. The XC90 doesn't either. They just aren't true off-roaders. If you put this in the competitor category, then you would need to add the Audi e-tron, BMW iX whatever that is, etc...

Also, ever since Geely took over volvo the parts quality & reliability have been horrendous. I would say they increased service costs while decreasing the life-span of parts on their vehicles (intentionally) to drive service revenue. I would not own a volvo out of warranty!

 

[Albal]

Yes, that is essentially what Rivian did with an off-road version of a McLaren-type suspension system, coupled with air / air spring and control arms. The trade-off is cost, configurability and potential service expense in the future (TBD). This is a good video explaining the system and showing how well it compares to other off-roaders like a Gladiator and Raptor: https://insideevs.com/news/573904/rivian-r1t-suspension-flex-test-engineering/

Looks like it'll be an interesting video - I'll have to check it out. I did hear they licensed the McLaren hydraulic "sway bar". As I recall it was set up to not just handle left-to-right sway, but front-to-back pitch. (? it's been awhile so maybe I'm mis-remembering)

 

[Albal]

I think the Volvo will be a competitor whether Scout Motors likes it or not, as well as at lot of other cars that are not extreme off-roaders. It just depends on what your "must have" and "want to have" list looks like when you go car shopping. Even for folks that must have off-road ability, there will be a lot of variation in how much off-road ability they think is required vs wanted.

 

[J Alynn]

Curious if any others on here with Broncos did the recent survey? “Wasted” 25 minutes answering questions and took away the following-if nothing else maybe it will enlighten Jamie and the design group.
They are definitely heading for electric as half the survey was would I and how much more would I pay for hybrid, full electric or diesel?
The other interesting item was 12 questions about what I assume Ford feels is Bronco competition since they asked about them, if we shopped them, perception of them and so on.
Here were the four:
-VW Atlas-OK
-Jeep grand Cherokee L-maybe they are thinking enlarged Bronco version-AKA -Scout Travelall ???
-Fire Explorer Hybrid-completely off my radar, didn’t even know it came Hybrid
And…..
-Mustang Mach-E - WTF???? Why would I shop that against a Bronco?

Anyway, this is the competition thread so maybe Scout needs to look at these

 

[Albal]

Just noticed the Telo Truck:
https://www.autoblog.com/2023/06/15...ers-super-competitive-range-and-power-output/

It has some interesting packaging.

 

[J Alynn]

Just noticed the Telo Truck:
https://www.autoblog.com/2023/06/15...ers-super-competitive-range-and-power-output/

It has some interesting packaging.

Interesting is the right word. Curious how it will be received? Not my cup of tea though

 

[Bodie]

I would 100% Disagree. Cross-overs do not belong in this category. The XC90 doesn't either. They just aren't true off-roaders. If you put this in the competitor category, then you would need to add the Audi e-tron, BMW iX whatever that is, etc...

Also, ever since Geely took over volvo the parts quality & reliability have been horrendous. I would say they increased service costs while decreasing the life-span of parts on their vehicles (intentionally) to drive service revenue. I would not own a volvo out of warranty!

Concur. If a Volvo CUV is the competition, I won’t be getting a new Scout. The Scout’s competition better be the Wrangler and Bronco, ideally both 2 and 4 door. Rivian and LR Defender maybe at the high end of the Scout range.

 

[Albal]

Interesting is the right word. Curious how it will be received? Not my cup of tea though

Not mine either. For one, I'd rather not be sitting in the crumple zone! They did do an interesting packaging job, however. In addition to being tiny and getting a 350 mile range, you can fit a full sheet of plywood in the back with the tailgate up, extending it into the passenger compartment. It can convert to seat 8, and you can't argue with that approach angle. It looks like the front tire actually sticks out a bit in front of the bumper.

 

[difficulTT]

Not mine either. For one, I'd rather not be sitting in the crumple zone! They did do an interesting packaging job, however. In addition to being tiny and getting a 350 mile range, you can fit a full sheet of plywood in the back with the tailgate up, extending it into the passenger compartment. It can convert to seat 8, and you can't argue with that approach angle. It looks like the front tire actually sticks out a bit in front of the bumper.

View attachment 1453

I'm a fan

 

[lefty]

 

[Jim Nichols]

I think the main competitors for the suv/utility vehicle would be the Ford Bronco and Jeep Wrangler. The pickup would be the Jeep Gladiator, Ford Ranger, Toyota Tacoma, GM Colorado and Canyon. Wheel base around 118" for SUV and around 130" with 5' box for the pickup. Scout has a head start as eventually they all will become electric.

 

[LastDayScout]

Not mine either. For one, I'd rather not be sitting in the crumple zone! They did do an interesting packaging job, however. In addition to being tiny and getting a 350 mile range, you can fit a full sheet of plywood in the back with the tailgate up, extending it into the passenger compartment. It can convert to seat 8, and you can't argue with that approach angle. It looks like the front tire actually sticks out a bit in front of the bumper.

View attachment 1453

For probably 90% of the people that say they “need” a truck, this is all the truck they really need. I own a business that uses trucks to tow equipment trailers and I have owned many personally. So, I feel somewhat qualified to comment….trucks are way too big these days.