Scout Motors - who are your competitors?

[RebelliousPeasant]

I have a friend in the market for a new 4x4 and he was looking at a Rivian but says they're "too small" somehow and too expensive which I get. He's currently looking at a 4Runner because Jeeps and Broncos are too unreliable. So really I think the Scout's competition is the 4Runner. If SM can capture those buyers they'd be doing really well.

 

[R1TVT]

Scout will definitely capture some of those buyers, but Toyota is ICE and not EV. Also, you friend's assessment on size is odd, particularly with the extra storage in the frunk (+11 Cubic feet) of the R1S and completely flat folding rear-seating in the Rivian R1S.

Rivian R1S has a wheelbase of 121 inches, a length of 200.8 inches, and a width of 77.3 inches
4Runner has a wheelbase of 109.8 inches, a length of 191.3 inches, and a width of 75.8 inches.

R1S provides 17.6 cubic feet of room behind the third row
4-Runner provides 9.0 cubic feet of room behind the third row

R1S provides 46.7 cubic feet with the third row folded
4-Runner provides 46.3 cubic feet with the third row folded

R1S provides 88.2 cubic feet with all rear rows down (+5 cubes in the underfloor compartment)
4-Runner provides 89.7 cubic feet when all rears are down

They provide very similar boxes. Definitely more $$$ than the 4-Runner, so for the value shoppers that don;t care about EV, it will take marketshare. I think it is Toyota's best update (along with the Landcruiser) in decades, but it is still a Toyota.

I love that Rivian and Scout are ground-up American companies (even if Scout is backed by V/W). They are doing this in America.

From the internets: Toyota 4Runners have been built in Japan at Toyota's Tahara plant in Aichi or at the Hino Motors plant in Hamura, which is a Toyota subsidiary. The 2025 Toyota 4Runner will be built at the Tahara plant and is expected to arrive in the U.S. in late 2024.

 

[J Alynn]

I have a friend in the market for a new 4x4 and he was looking at a Rivian but says they're "too small" somehow and too expensive which I get. He's currently looking at a 4Runner because Jeeps and Broncos are too unreliable. So really I think the Scout's competition is the 4Runner. If SM can capture those buyers they'd be doing really well.

I love the look of the new 4 runner

 

[RebelliousPeasant]

Scout will definitely capture some of those buyers, but Toyota is ICE and not EV. Also, you friend's assessment on size is odd, particularly with the extra storage in the frunk (+11 Cubic feet) of the R1S and completely flat folding rear-seating in the Rivian R1S.

Rivian R1S has a wheelbase of 121 inches, a length of 200.8 inches, and a width of 77.3 inches
4Runner has a wheelbase of 109.8 inches, a length of 191.3 inches, and a width of 75.8 inches.

R1S provides 17.6 cubic feet of room behind the third row
4-Runner provides 9.0 cubic feet of room behind the third row

R1S provides 46.7 cubic feet with the third row folded
4-Runner provides 46.3 cubic feet with the third row folded

R1S provides 88.2 cubic feet with all rear rows down (+5 cubes in the underfloor compartment)
4-Runner provides 89.7 cubic feet when all rears are down

They provide very similar boxes. Definitely more $$$ than the 4-Runner, so for the value shoppers that don;t care about EV, it will take marketshare. I think it is Toyota's best update (along with the Landcruiser) in decades, but it is still a Toyota.

I love that Rivian and Scout are ground-up American companies (even if Scout is backed by V/W). They are doing this in America.

From the internets: Toyota 4Runners have been built in Japan at Toyota's Tahara plant in Aichi or at the Hino Motors plant in Hamura, which is a Toyota subsidiary. The 2025 Toyota 4Runner will be built at the Tahara plant and is expected to arrive in the U.S. in late 2024.

Thanks for putting numbers to the sizes because I also thought it was an odd comment. His heart seems set on a 4runner for whatever reason, I just assume he's watched too many car camping 'overlanding' videos on YouTube.

I think it's a mistake to put EVs in a box where they don't compete with ICE. EVs do and should be cross-shopped against ICE because ultimately that's what we need them to replace. The EV offerings should out-compete the ICE vehicles based on merits and ideally price as well. I'm hoping the Scout vehicles will give the Taco and 4Runner a run for their money.

 

[TimmyHil08]

Thanks for putting numbers to the sizes because I also thought it was an odd comment. His heart seems set on a 4runner for whatever reason, I just assume he's watched too many car camping 'overlanding' videos on YouTube.

I think it's a mistake to put EVs in a box where they don't compete with ICE. EVs do and should be cross-shopped against ICE because ultimately that's what we need them to replace. The EV offerings should out-compete the ICE vehicles based on merits and ideally price as well. I'm hoping the Scout vehicles will give the Taco and 4Runner a run for their money.

Im not big on replacing ICE fully as you know. But i do think it should compete with the market. Dont lump them all together. Each thing offers something different.

 

[R1TVT]

My thought is that EV's have different features like more storage, less maintenance, charging requirements, faster 0-60, more torque, etc. If a buyer is considering an EV, it has to be a different equation in their mind, so grouping EV SUV's and Trucks together into a category seems logical, but you will certainly pull across some ICE shoppers that see a Scout or a Rivian and really like what it provides, then switch to consider 100% pure EV. That is the goal afer all, pull the more traditional ICE buyer over to the new Scout (along with all the pure EV buyers out there). Historically, and considering everything that something like a Rivian has to offer in terms of performance, fit, finish, features, SW, etc. (plus a very large battery pack), cost has been an issue. With Scout being backed by VW and starting this with a competitive advantage, they could very well pull many more Taco/4Runner type buyers over to EV trucks (provided a more comparable MSRP range).

 

[OleScout]

Just had the opportunity to test drive an R1S-first time I've driven an electric vehicle. I spent about 30 minutes test driving as Rivian held a demo event about 30 minutes from home. Immediately, the technological advancement is far superior to anything I've driven to date. Simple features such as touching the brake start the vehicle to open the door and get out of the seat to turn it off according to one of the brand members who accompanied me for the ride along. I enjoyed the minimalist interior design integrated into the dash, I will say I was a bit overwhelmed with trying to locate the features offered in the infotainment system. The overall ride is much quieter than driving my current Bronco, I'm not referring to the top noise, I'm referring to noise that comes along with acceleration, ignition, exhaust, etc. The throttle response is impressive, it's the feeling of driving a sports car.

I've been curious and intrigued to drive an EV, I would encourage others to do the same as I've been mostly ignorant to the level of performance an EV offers.

 

[R1TVT]

Your assessment was essentially the same as my assessment, when my truck was actually delivered to my driveway on day #1 of ownership. I did have an opportunity to go for a ride in a friend's R1T on his delivery day (which got me even more excited for my delivery day), BUT I never drove a Rivian personally before my delivery day. There were no opportunities to test drive when i ordered in 2019. Yes, it was risky, but I knew enough about the company to weigh the risks, and since a service center was planned for New England in Boston, it reduced the risk also.

As far as the U/I and infotainment, I can see it being a little overwhelming since there are so many SW features that you would never have access to in a traditional truck. Things like CarWash mode, Regen options, opening and closing the charge port or tonneau cover, crazy drive modes, are all now organized in menus on a screen. They are well organized, and I will say that they are SUPER intuitive once you drive around for a day or two.

 

[OleScout]

Yes, ideally, I would like to have spent more time. I have an R2 on the reservation, not sure if I plan to follow through with it, that depends on how things progress with the SM SUV. However, based on my time today, if I was in the market, I would make the shift towards R1S if I needed to make a purchase today. The panoramic roof gives the open-air experience, the tech is adaptable, and the quality of the overall driving experience was far superior to anything I've driven to date. I felt if I was in a luxury rugged sports car with features, ethics, and throttle response. As I was being a kid, I mistakenly hit the "SOS" button, thankfully, I had a window of time to disable.

 

[J Alynn]

Hearing all this makes me think SM should do several rigs about a year before production and do side by side events similar to what @OleScout just experienced so they can see/feel the difference. Maybe a wrangler and/or Bronco and a Sout mule. Then do the off-road park when we do the factory delivery to really understand the abilities of the SM vehicles.
This might really help the ICE crowd who talk doom and gloom. Let’s face it-Costco doesn’t put out free samples for fun. Try it and buy it really works.
Years ago the builder I designed for came very close to doing weekend stays at their models and was going to cater dinners so people could enjoy the quality of the homes and the neighborhood vibe.
Driving side by side or back to back would certainly help sales

 

[R1TVT]

The issues with this approach are scalability, cost and time.

So, what Rivian (to their credit) was to set up very specific / invite-only drive events in different rugged destinations. They invited certain "influencers" in addition to their own production crews, then they would generate content from the event that would go viral once published. This is definitely an approach that SM would benefit from, which would also be scalable, reduce time and cost less. It also creates a sense of "scarcity" around these types of experiences, in essence making the truck even that much more desirable.

Then Rivian started to build cool showrooms (called spaces) to host events. I actually rec'd an invite to a showroom launch in downtown Boston this week (https://rivian.com/spaces/boston). I'm not planning to attend, but people that live in or near the city will pack the place, I'm sure. These locations serve a variety of functions (but offer no service). You can sit in a vehicle, book a test drive, learn about the company and future vehicles, attend various events that tend be oriented toward Rivian adventure-minded people in a cool space, etc.

Rivian always seemed to be thinking one-step ahead in terms of events, their marketing, the rollout plan and delighting and surprising with new updates. I have to give them a ton of credit for what they have been able to pull off in a relatively short period of time, starting from nothing. Scout could definitely benefit from ripping a few pages out of their playbook. We've already seen indications that this is happening, which in my mind is a good thing. Imitation can also be the highest form of flattery, and lead to faster results.

 

[J Alynn]

The issues with this approach are scalability, cost and time.

So, what Rivian (to their credit) was to set up very specific / invite-only drive events in different rugged destinations. They invited certain "influencers" in addition to their own production crews, then they would generate content from the event that would go viral once published. This is definitely an approach that SM would benefit from, which would also be scalable, reduce time and cost less. It also creates a sense of "scarcity" around these types of experiences, in essence making the truck even that much more desirable.

Then Rivian started to build cool showrooms (called spaces) to host events. I actually rec'd an invite to a showroom launch in downtown Boston this week (https://rivian.com/spaces/boston). I'm not planning to attend, but people that live in or near the city will pack the place, I'm sure. These locations serve a variety of functions (but offer no service). You can sit in a vehicle, book a test drive, learn about the company and future vehicles, attend various events that tend be oriented toward Rivian adventure-minded people in a cool space, etc.

Rivian always seemed to be thinking one-step ahead in terms of events, their marketing, the rollout plan and delighting and surprising with new updates. I have to give them a ton of credit for what they have been able to pull off in a relatively short period of time, starting from nothing. Scout could definitely benefit from ripping a few pages out of their playbook. We've already seen indications that this is happening, which in my mind is a good thing. Imitation can also be the highest form of flattery, and lead to faster results.

I think those strategies are great for the younger market but I question the older crowds. Young car buyers shop cars online and often purchase without extensive time trying a vehicle. That works for a large swath of younger buyers but an upper priced vehicle deserves more comparison especially knowing it’s EV and being challenged due to its heritage. I recognize the events would cost some money but you could schedule events based in areas where $100 deposits are dropped. That would be a similar way to control sizes of events and “pre-qualify” buyers/testers.
Like Bronco off-rodeo but pre purchase as a 15 minute ride along rather than full day experience. That could be a plant delivery experience

 

[R1TVT]

Yes, agreed 100%, but you are limited and severely capped. You can only pull off so many of these events to reach buyers, and you can't possibly open them up completely because you only have so many test vehicles, you only have so many Scout employees, and you only have so many hours in a day to make these things happen. Older buyers (hate to say it, bc I will certainly become one of them with each passing birthday) aren't going to be the target demo to move the needle as much. We also need to give credit to GenX here, since they have evolved, adapted and converted over time into very tech savvy consumers. This is all speculation since I know nothing of the perfect target demographic for the vehicle other than what we see here, the competition's consumers and what we have seen directly from Scout Motors in their videos. The goal seems clear - create a game changing EV truck and SUV that will appear to a broad base of consumers that may not have considered EV's much in the past (Bronco / Jeep) or might have been looking at a Ford lightening or Rivian for example. Taking into account the principles of Moore's law and with the timing of the launch, pricing should be very competitive also. Since buying behaviors of consumers have changed drastically, and since companies like Tesla and Rivian have set a precedent for direct buying experiences, and since the number of available Scouts will start at 0 and climb once production starts, and since there will be demand and pre-orders to fill, it may be less of an issue for Scout. Once the reveal happens, we will see a huge uptick in interest (here and with the media and all the trades). Things are going to heat up very fast I think!

 

[JohnnyScout]

A new competitor in the electric truck market, CAT and this article is heavy on reference to who services something not sold from a traditional auto facility

The 2025 Caterpillar Pickup Is Cool, But May Be Dead On Arrival

Caterpillar has created what may be the best pickup truck for professionals in years but if they don't learn from the International Scout it may be dead on arrival.

www-torquenews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[TimmyHil08]

A new competitor in the electric truck market, CAT and this article is heavy on reference to who services something not sold from a traditional auto facility

The 2025 Caterpillar Pickup Is Cool, But May Be Dead On Arrival

Caterpillar has created what may be the best pickup truck for professionals in years but if they don't learn from the International Scout it may be dead on arrival.

www-torquenews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Thats for the big heavy duty construction sites. I dont see it being very competitive with scouts market. No average person is gonna buy a CAT pickup. People don’t even buy CAT power tools and now days Volvo, Hyundai and Bobcat have been replacing CATERPILLARS on job sites. CAT has been slacking for years now. Its sales and stock going down shows their decline in popularity. I grew up around construction sites being that my dad works in construction. Its also my second job that i do after i’m done at my main job.

 

[61ih80]

If these guys thought International parts were expensive just wait until they go to a Caterpillar service department.

 

[TimmyHil08]

If these guys thought International parts were expensive just wait until they go to a Caterpillar service department.

So true

 

[LastDayScout]

A new competitor in the electric truck market, CAT and this article is heavy on reference to who services something not sold from a traditional auto facility

The 2025 Caterpillar Pickup Is Cool, But May Be Dead On Arrival

Caterpillar has created what may be the best pickup truck for professionals in years but if they don't learn from the International Scout it may be dead on arrival.

www-torquenews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

I do not think this is real or really being considered by Cat.

 

[LastDayScout]

I do not think this is real or really being considered by Cat.

Also, the local Cat dealer just recently completely shut down their truck service shop.

 

[JohnnyScout]

I do not think this is real or really being considered by Cat.

Upon further review I have to admit it is fake news