So what does everyone think of the first new Scout designs...

[jtorre4272]

If this is a poll, I veto this idea. Look at the market for the 2-DR Bronco. While many opt for the 4DR, the 2DR has a huge demand. In 2021, ~54k brinco were produced, ~11k which were 2DR. This accounted for ~20% of that market share. Keep in mind, a commodity restraint was present for the 2DR due to the hard tops so this may have resulted in a lower production volume for the 2DR.

One idea I think that give the two door look it duplicate the FJ Cruiser design, looks like a 2-door but serves as a 4 door.

I have to sympathize with Jamie and Chris here, olescout. The realities of EVs are that the battery is not just an energy storage device. It’s the engine too as it provides not just kWH but kW! The Motors only consume available power from the battery. We live in a world spoiled by a wonder fuel known as gasoline. Something that can be transported and stored very easily in just about any ICE vehicle. To get satisfactory range, the battery needs to make the most use of just about every square inch of available underbody space. This results in trade offs of wheelbase targeting to achieve the desired range, all while still attempting to provide good break over angles typically seen on a 2 door vehicle. The truth is a 2 door scout is a huge challenge for the battery and the people architecting the chassis. A 4 door, while not as popular to some, can at least take advantage of improved range opportunities afforded by a bigger battery. That plus the need for two form factor batteries could be a prohibitive combination. Batteries are extremely expensive to engineer and develop.

 

[IdahoJOAT]

I think I mentioned it before but it is worth repeating. The conundrum manufacturers face right now is that we need the wheelbase of the 4-door for batteries. If we offer a two-door we couldn't reduce the wheelbase without sacrificing battery range or greatly reducing interior space by stacking batteries (has it's own separate issues). So do you offer a two-door with the same wheelbase as the 4-door? Are most that want a two-door also looking for a shorter wheelbase to go with it? What is the market potential for such a vehicle and how much investment is necessary to support it? Could battery technology improve enough to reduce battery size and make a two-door feasible? In the future it is likely, but how far into the future?

So while the team is in favor of a two-door and penciled it in, it won't be in the mix at least initially. Things could change of course, but let's see how this goes over the next couple years. The plan is to expand the model lineup in the future. This is just the beginning.

I'll answer from what I've gathered on the forum:

If it's a 2 door they want the shortened wheelbase. I think the 2 door market is rather niche. The REASON people get a 2 door is the turning radius and to a much lesser extent the aesthetic.

The market share isn't significant enough to warrant a 2 door, honestly. The 4 door Jeep and Bronco are perfect examples of this.

While @OleScout pointed out 20% of Broncos were 2 doors, I'd be willing to wager the vast majority of those(and 2 door Jeepers) would have still bought either rig if it was only in a 4 door version. Especially the Bronco crowd.

 

[IdahoJOAT]

I'll also point out the 4xe:

1. The main motor is 181 hp.
2. The battery is 17kWh.
3. This takes up the entire storage area under the rear seats, and even pushed up those seats about 3-4".
4. This is only good for about 25-30 miles of 2wd use. About 9 miles of 4LO use.

So to get 300 miles! While hopefully having 400hp(or more)?!

That's a tall order y'all.

 

[OleScout]

I think I mentioned it before but it is worth repeating. The conundrum manufacturers face right now is that we need the wheelbase of the 4-door for batteries. If we offer a two-door we couldn't reduce the wheelbase without sacrificing battery range or greatly reducing interior space by stacking batteries (has it's own separate issues). So do you offer a two-door with the same wheelbase as the 4-door? Are most that want a two-door also looking for a shorter wheelbase to go with it? What is the market potential for such a vehicle and how much investment is necessary to support it? Could battery technology improve enough to reduce battery size and make a two-door feasible? In the future it is likely, but how far into the future?

So while the team is in favor of a two-door and penciled it in, it won't be in the mix at least initially. Things could change of course, but let's see how this goes over the next couple years. The plan is to expand the model lineup in the future. This is just the beginning.

Thanks for the clarity on this, my narrow minded ignorant thinking got in the way of knowing about the wheelbase size and batter size. Happy to know that once the technology improves that this will be considered.

I stand by my previous comment of the FJ Cruiser design and how this gives the impression of a 2DR while serving as a 4DR. Also, someone else mentioned the design on the Honda Element doors. Not sure what the concensus is on this but curious to see if others agree or disagree.

 

[ColeAK]

For sure, I want to manage expectations that the new generation won’t be ‘60s and ‘70s era remakes/Restos, but rather a new generation of the Scout that aim to push the future of electric trucks and rugged SUVs, and define a new generation of vehicle, the same way the historic Scouts did in their time.

That being said, as @jtorre4272 mentioned, the electric truck and off-road arena is a bit of the Wild West right now, with no real playbook, which opens the possibilities up to how we can approach. We’re fortunate over here to be starting from the ground up, with the backing of a massive automotive group, which is giving us the opportunity to build these cars from the platform up, with all of the input we’ve been getting, in mind.

Getting this kind of feedback from our community and future customers so early on, gives us a solid chance to see what everyone is really pumped for. And while maybe not every feature can be added, it definitely provides some solid direction on what people are looking for and how we can engineer the best vehicles to cater to our community, customers, and the market.

Well if you are starting from the ground up start with the wheels tires and like I said further up: smaller wheels, as in <18”

My biggest complaint with Rivian is much of their brand identity is outdoor/off road/overland then they build a truck that isn’t off road worthy due to pointless 20”+ rims. They should have built an urban ridgeline/Santa Cruz/Baja like truck if they were just going to hamstring it with ridiculous wheels.

 

[J Alynn]

I think I mentioned it before but it is worth repeating. The conundrum manufacturers face right now is that we need the wheelbase of the 4-door for batteries. If we offer a two-door we couldn't reduce the wheelbase without sacrificing battery range or greatly reducing interior space by stacking batteries (has it's own separate issues). So do you offer a two-door with the same wheelbase as the 4-door? Are most that want a two-door also looking for a shorter wheelbase to go with it? What is the market potential for such a vehicle and how much investment is necessary to support it? Could battery technology improve enough to reduce battery size and make a two-door feasible? In the future it is likely, but how far into the future?

So while the team is in favor of a two-door and penciled it in, it won't be in the mix at least initially. Things could change of course, but let's see how this goes over the next couple years. The plan is to expand the model lineup in the future. This is just the beginning.

Well stated Jamie. Thinking a new thread should be started on 2-door because I see a lot of off road enthusiasts wanting two door and suspect this topic is continually going to come up as others find their way to the forum- just a thought. . I’m in it for a four door for convenience and the lighter use I plan to use it for but have debated 2-door as my kid is out of the house next fall. At a 20% take rate on the Bronco I can see from the business side why this is a back seat initiative hearing the reduced battery capacity. I wonder if a two door could be designed as an over landing look with a roof compartment that could hold the other portion of the batteries? Thinking there are probably safety issues with that approach due to rollover accidents

 

[IdahoJOAT]

Well stated Jamie. Thinking a new thread should be started on 2-door because I see a lot of off road enthusiasts wanting two door and suspect this topic is continually going to come up as others find their way to the forum- just a thought. . I’m in it for a four door for convenience and the lighter use I plan to use it for but have debated 2-door as my kid is out of the house next fall. At a 20% take rate on the Bronco I can see from the business side why this is a back seat initiative hearing the reduced battery capacity. I wonder if a two door could be designed as an over landing look with a roof compartment that could hold the other portion of the batteries? Thinking there are probably safety issues with that approach due to rollover accidents

I think alot of it too is the HVAC needed. I didn't know it until we got our 4xe, but there's a bunch of cooling and heating that has to happen to maintain them.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Well stated Jamie. Thinking a new thread should be started on 2-door because I see a lot of off road enthusiasts wanting two door and suspect this topic is continually going to come up as others find their way to the forum- just a thought. . I’m in it for a four door for convenience and the lighter use I plan to use it for but have debated 2-door as my kid is out of the house next fall. At a 20% take rate on the Bronco I can see from the business side why this is a back seat initiative hearing the reduced battery capacity. I wonder if a two door could be designed as an over landing look with a roof compartment that could hold the other portion of the batteries? Thinking there are probably safety issues with that approach due to rollover accidents

Two-door could be a separate thread. We are also working on an FAQ as well to help keep track of this stuff.

 

[IdahoJOAT]

Two-door could be a separate thread. We are also working on an FAQ as well to help keep track of this stuff.

Fabulous idea.

 

[Jason 77scout]

Like the new design Blend of the scout and scout 2. Hope its not as small as the wrangler or new bronco. Would like some leg and shoulder room like the scout 2.
Keep it simple and utilitarian.
I have fit 4 x 8 sheets of drywall in a Scout 2 with tail gate down. Stuck out but could be done.
Try that in a Jeep or new bronco.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Well if you are starting from the ground up start with the wheels tires and like I said further up: smaller wheels, as in <18”

My biggest complaint with Rivian is much of their brand identity is outdoor/off road/overland then they build a truck that isn’t off road worthy due to pointless 20”+ rims. They should have built an urban ridgeline/Santa Cruz/Baja like truck if they were just going to hamstring it with ridiculous wheels.

I know wheel size is an ongoing discussion. Some of this will have to come down to the brake size needed to stop a heavy vehicle safely. Let's see what the engineers say. But we understand the off-road market wants and needs where this is concerned and we hear you.

 

[ColeAK]

I know wheel size is an ongoing discussion. Some of this will have to come down to the brake size needed to stop a heavy vehicle safely. Let's see what the engineers say. But we understand the off-road market wants and needs where this is concerned and we hear you.

Most 1 ton trucks have 13” rotors…. Heck the Rivian has larger rotors then an f550.

 

[J_P]

Another likely factor with the ~20% 2-door take rate for the new Bronco is likely that many (most?) of the early reservations were made by enthusiasts. Like me, they may be more likely to desire a 2 door than the masses that will be buying them as we get further from initial production.

The situation is likely similar with the manual transmission.

 

[IdahoJOAT]

Another likely factor with the ~20% 2-door take rate for the new Bronco is likely that many (most?) of the early reservations were made by enthusiasts. Like me, they may be more likely to desire a 2 door than the masses that will be buying them as we get further from initial production.

The situation is likely similar with the manual transmission.

I'd bet you're right, and that we'll see the same thing with the Scout.

The interesting thing is the opposite, with the Wrangler. The Wrangler was seen as a single person's rig. A fun high school car. Or a weekend toy. But once they grew up and got a spouse and kids, the Wrangler was gone for something more practical...

Until the 4 door came out. Jeep suddenly cracked the code of practical and fun. Form and function. This is why we have had 2. They fit the bill.

 

[jtorre4272]

I know wheel size is an ongoing discussion. Some of this will have to come down to the brake size needed to stop a heavy vehicle safely. Let's see what the engineers say. But we understand the off-road market wants and needs where this is concerned and we hear you.

Agree. the wheel size will likely be determined by the braking system needs. Just to put it in perspective, folks, the Lightning F150 EV is several thousand pounds heavier than a gas F150. Think of it as an F250+ weight with an F150 badge. Batteries are heavy. I am sure Jamie and Chris fully understand the competitive set. Bronco Sasquatch offers 35" tires. The Bronco Raptor jumps to 37's. All on 17" rims. But Bronco with a gas engine is a much lighter product than an EV scout. Something to consider.

In some cases, brand DNA wins over popularity...the 7 speed manual transmission in the Bronco 2.0L GTDI with granny gear, for example. Additionally, Bronco offered the Sasquatch package on the base trim level as a result of strong customer interest for a no frills, highly capable crawler. Every brand needs a hero vehicle. Its not intended to be the sales leader, but the icon from which sales of less capable products will proliferate. I anticipate Scout Motors also knows this, and is attempting to align with DNA as well as the customer tastes. A careful balance. Everything costs money.

 

[jtorre4272]

I'd bet you're right, and that we'll see the same thing with the Scout.

The interesting thing is the opposite, with the Wrangler. The Wrangler was seen as a single person's rig. A fun high school car. Or a weekend toy. But once they grew up and got a spouse and kids, the Wrangler was gone for something more practical...

Until the 4 door came out. Jeep suddenly cracked the code of practical and fun. Form and function. This is why we have had 2. They fit the bill.

This is accurate, IdahoJoAT. In the auto industry, we call the enthusiasts the "early adopters". Thats why we can't put much weight on option take rates and what sells vs what doesn't in the first several months, because dealers tend to like to load up their vehicles with options to help get them to sell as new products. Plus the early adopters tend to be tech savvy and do the same. The majority customers tend to come in the second wave as cautiously optimistic buyers. I can't say anything about 2 door vs 4 door EV sales, but if Bronco ICE is any type of precedent, then 2 door sales after a few years on the market will likely determine how popular 2 doors really are in the practical world of 4 door conveniences.

 

[jtorre4272]

Well if you are starting from the ground up start with the wheels tires and like I said further up: smaller wheels, as in <18”

My biggest complaint with Rivian is much of their brand identity is outdoor/off road/overland then they build a truck that isn’t off road worthy due to pointless 20”+ rims. They should have built an urban ridgeline/Santa Cruz/Baja like truck if they were just going to hamstring it with ridiculous wheels.

I benchmarked the Rivian R1T out at the Anza Borrego Desert park in CA. I left with mostly disappointment. It was not, in my opinion, an enthusiast oriented off road product and has left a lot on the table related to controls capabilities with 4 motors. Its air suspension behavior and the rattles that came with it reminded me of a 300,000 mile pickup with worn ball joints. If Scout Motors benchmarks competing EV products, I would put the R1T low on the list. I commend Rivian for entering into this space, but feel they need more time to get their product to extract the most it can out of 4 motor capability. I disagree with Motor Trend's article.

 

[Cory Smith]

At the moment, a 2-door isn't in the plans. However, that's not to say that it isn't something that could be brought to the table for consideration in the future.

That’s disappointing to hear.

 

[A Truck Named Sue]

Modular body panels that allow owners to mix and match on look? Two distinct eras in my mind.. 60s and 70s. Personally a 60s guy, love the mix of utilitarian function and natural style. Some key body panels “options” could provide for some very different looks and personalization.

 

[J Alynn]

Modular body panels that allow owners to mix and match on look? Two distinct eras in my mind.. 60s and 70s. Personally a 60s guy, love the mix of utilitarian function and natural style. Some key body panels “options” could provide for some very different looks and personalization.

Challenging task but love the idea