So what does everyone think of the first new Scout designs...

[IdahoJOAT]

Quality control: As I mentioned, vehicles are designed and manufactured by humans. Please name a single vehicle without any quality control issues. Wranglers are notorious for having issues. The 2023 received a 2 of 5 by Consumer Reports yet you have a JL.

Markups: I got my Bronco from a dealer at invoice as did many customers. All it took was a little bit of research on the forums. https://www.grangerford.com/new-ford-bronco.html

Sure, there are dealers marking them up, but you missed the point. If there wasn't the demand, no one would pay the price and the dealer wouldn't mark them up. That's kind of how supply and demand works. This happens with most new successful vehicles. Corvette, Gladiator, 911, Defender, etc. None of these manufacturers consider these vehicles a failure. These are their biggest successes.

As for the markups themselves, as long as there are dealers, things like this will always happen. The only way to do away with that is to sell direct to consumer, which I believe Scout is considering. I think to expand on Ford's success with the Bronco, Scout should definitely go for the direct-to-consumer route. The dealership concept is antiquated and needs to change or be replaced.

Long delivery times: Whenever there is high demand, there will be long wait times. This is the case with anything. Once again, cars are made by people, and this is a complicated process. The Bronco ramp up curve is typical for any new vehicle launch. Sure they wanted to ramp up faster but it was typical in comparison to any new vehicle launch. A manufacturer cannot simply decide they are going to launch a new vehicle and instantly hit the maximum capacity. Thats not how manufacturing works. The difference with the Bronco was that the launch was under a microscope because of the huge number of reservations and interest.

The engine failure issue is overblown. Based on the article from Consumer Affairs, 0.18% of Broncos are affected by the dropped valves. What a disaster. Ford should probably go ahead and cancel the Bronco.

"In July, NHTSA's Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) reported it had received 26 complaints about Bronco engine failures. According to Consumer Affairs researchers, at least 47 2.7L engine failures have been reported on one forum, Bronco6g.com. An estimated 25,538 2021 Broncos are equipped with 2.7L engines."
​

And if people buying these ticking time bombs are fools, I guess you are also a fool because the Jeep Wrangler JK was notorious for engine failures below 100k miles. It would seem you didn't take your own advice. https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/1508-3-8l-jeep-wrangler-jk-engine-problems/

Lastly, look at Ford's stock price the day the Bronco reservations went live July 2020, $6.80. By June 2021, when the first Bronco deliveries were being made, it was around $16. Today, even with the market correction, it is still around $14. Doubling your stock price may be a failure in your eyes but anyone trying to run a successful business would probably disagree.

I am happy that Bronco owners are happy. They should be, they've put up with enough.
And I had a bunch of counter-points typed out, but then deleted em man. The negativity is tiresome . I'd rather us both help SMC develop the best damn mid-size SUV/Truck on the market and run a trail together in our Scouts.

 

[mt406]

Hello everyone and welcome to the forum!

My name is Jamie Vondruska and I'm part of the community team here at Scout Motors and will be helping to get these forums going, answer questions to the best of my ability, and overall make sure your stay here is comfortable and fun. Chris@scoutmotors and I will be regularly chiming in on the discussion, posting new Scout news, occasionally cleaning house, and doing our best to participate as much as we can.

As you would imagine, there is a LOT going on behind the scenes when you start a new car company from the ground up and it is incredibly exciting to watch it come together. One of the things our management team wanted to see from the start was a community forum like this one where we can get your feedback, suggestions, and comments and hear your Scout stories. This is a unique situation for any car company and after running one of the largest car forums in the world (VWvortex), I was excited to get involved with Scout. As you can imagine, there are probably still more questions than answers as Scout comes back to life here in the U.S. But we'll do our best to answer them and run all your suggestions by our team. Speaking of the team, they will be actively reading these forums and taking your comments and suggestions to heart, so let us know what you think and you might even see our team members chiming in and asking more questions.

So let's get the ball rolling and talk about the initial Scout concept design sketches that were first released in June of 2022:

View attachment 8

Obvious influences? Nods to previous Scout products? Good start? Headed in the right direction? What does everyone think?

Let's hear it!

- Jamie

I like them both. The rear pillar design on the SUV is nice nod to the original. However that wide of a pillar might reduce visibility like it does for the FJ Cruiser. I'm excited to see this like of vehicles come to market!

 

[LastDayScout]

I too hope this forum does not turn into bashing other brands. I hope we can all meaningfully contribute to a great new vehicle or vehicles!

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I too hope this forum does not turn into bashing other brands. I hope we can all meaningfully contribute to a great new vehicle or vehicles!

There will always be a little purist debate between brands. Yankees/Red Sox, Bears/Packers and on and on. We'll do our best to remind people to play nice though...

 

[LastDayScout]

There will always be a little purist debate between brands. Yankees/Red Sox, Bears/Packers and on and on. We'll do our best to remind people to play nice though...

You know what kind of vehicles I like? Good ones!

 

[prattm1964]

The rear overhang I think is perfect. From the amount of videos I've seen of Scouts getting hung up from the back, this will definitely help.

 

[ArizonaScouter]

I may offer multiple suggestions in time, but will start with some things for now. First, one of my biggest concerns in buying any vehicle is longevity. I'm not just referring to mechanical longevity, which is certainly an issue with highly sophisticated and complex engine designs, but also the highly technical user interfaces applied seemingly across the board more and more frequently. These systems are now being used to control the cooling/heating systems, audio settings and more. While being a nifty conversation piece, they are often too complex and I fear highly vulnerable to becoming quickly antiquated and expensive to repair/replace. The current generation of VW GTI illustrates the negative impression left on auto journalists and buyers, inspiring VW to take some steps backwards and withdraw some of the haptic controls on next year's models (per an article I read recently). I think there can and is a place for these user interfaces, but I hope that Scout avoids making them the primary means of controlling the most basic and significant functions within the vehicle. My wife and I purchased a 2021 Mazda CX-9 last year and I liked that it offers somewhat "dated" technology in comparison to its competitors, but I viewed that as some reassurance that I wouldn't be held hostage by some simple computer software and hardware a few years down the road. In a perfect world, I'd have access to Apple CarPlay and keep all of the other controls relegated to buttons and knobs. Toyota has had such success with the 4Runner in recent years, despite being a dated design, in part because of it's high reliability, which is accomplished to a large degree because what it does contain has been time tested and well sorted at this point.

I'd personally love to buy a two-door model and would strongly consider a four-door model, too. I just love the look of the two-door. That said, my hope would be that the Scout set itself apart from many cars, not just the Jeep and Bronco, by promoting great interior utility and practicality. I think of the Honda Element and Fit and some of the highly functional features they offered. I'd love to have a rear seat/bench that folds without electricity. For example, is there a way to make use of something like the Chrysler minivan's "Stow and Go" feature whereby the rear bench can be released and design to slide forward and inside of an area within the floor, allowing the user access to fully flush cargo area without having to remove heavy seats dependent on power operated devices with increased cost and complexity?

Gotta go, but I am seriously excited about the Scout and what may come.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I may offer multiple suggestions in time, but will start with some things for now. First, one of my biggest concerns in buying any vehicle is longevity. I'm not just referring to mechanical longevity, which is certainly an issue with highly sophisticated and complex engine designs, but also the highly technical user interfaces applied seemingly across the board more and more frequently. These systems are now being used to control the cooling/heating systems, audio settings and more. While being a nifty conversation piece, they are often too complex and I fear highly vulnerable to becoming quickly antiquated and expensive to repair/replace. The current generation of VW GTI illustrates the negative impression left on auto journalists and buyers, inspiring VW to take some steps backwards and withdraw some of the haptic controls on next year's models (per an article I read recently). I think there can and is a place for these user interfaces, but I hope that Scout avoids making them the primary means of controlling the most basic and significant functions within the vehicle. My wife and I purchased a 2021 Mazda CX-9 last year and I liked that it offers somewhat "dated" technology in comparison to its competitors, but I viewed that as some reassurance that I wouldn't be held hostage by some simple computer software and hardware a few years down the road. In a perfect world, I'd have access to Apple CarPlay and keep all of the other controls relegated to buttons and knobs. Toyota has had such success with the 4Runner in recent years, despite being a dated design, in part because of it's high reliability, which is accomplished to a large degree because what it does contain has been time tested and well sorted at this point.

I'd personally love to buy a two-door model and would strongly consider a four-door model, too. I just love the look of the two-door. That said, my hope would be that the Scout set itself apart from many cars, not just the Jeep and Bronco, by promoting great interior utility and practicality. I think of the Honda Element and Fit and some of the highly functional features they offered. I'd love to have a rear seat/bench that folds without electricity. For example, is there a way to make use of something like the Chrysler minivan's "Stow and Go" feature whereby the rear bench can be released and design to slide forward and inside of an area within the floor, allowing the user access to fully flush cargo area without having to remove heavy seats dependent on power operated devices with increased cost and complexity?

Gotta go, but I am seriously excited about the Scout and what may come.

Good points and something we've talked about quite a bit (and continue to talk about!)

Cars were already increasingly becoming software-driven beyond just the engine CPU and transmission. A modern car typically has more than 10 different CPUs (sometimes far, far more) controlling everything from the engine parameters to the ABS braking system to the climate control system and on and on. This has been happening for the last 20 years and continues to happen at an even faster rate.

EVs in particular largely function on a software-based system. When the control systems on modern cars started to become mechanical devices that feed electronic systems (drive-by-wire) over the last 10-15 years, we've continued to move more and more towards software "involved" vehicles (right or wrong). So in the typical EV (and most ICE vehicles these days) when you press the accelerator pedal, it feeds electronic signals to a computer that not only determines how far you pressed the throttle but takes into consideration the rate of speed at which you press the throttle to try and determine exactly what you are asking for. This all happens in milliseconds, but it is the "fuzzy logic" the computer uses to figure out whether you want rapid maximum acceleration or a normal calm drive away from a stop sign. Same thing with braking as it helps the computer figure out whether the braking you are doing is "normal" or "panic" braking and reacts accordingly.

When it comes to controls on the interior it is the same thing. It logically makes sense that an offroad vehicle used in harsh conditions should probably have larger mechanical/old-school knobs that can be operated with gloves and such. Keep in mind those controls may still be electronic in nature and feed computer signals. That's just the way it is today. Moving controls to a screen give manufacturers the ability to simply redesign the controls if people aren't happy with them and it's a software update just like your phone. The same thing with any screen-based control system, anything you see on the screen could be changed and improved with just a software update whereas if the haptic buttons aren't going over well with customers, you can't really change them. So everything has its tradeoffs. I'm more old school and like a tradeoff between simple mechanical things to quickly change the heat or fan speed and also having the ability to do it through screen controls if I want.

Anyway, long post but hopefully that helps shed some light on what's going on when looking towards the future with new vehicle products.

 

[fuelcell1]

I really like the design itself and the suv is a nice blend of the old and the new together. I personally would like to see a slightly bigger area behind the rear seats for dogs, coolers and a bunch of gear. Definitely should be big enough for 6ft + to sleep inside with the seats folded. I love the truck concept but need a camper shell like ARE, LEER, Snugtop and such. If a factory one could come with it even better. again prefer 6 ft bed, 5t is the MINIMUM. Don't do a 4footer

 

[J_P]

Everyone doesn't look at a Bronco and go, "Ooo look at that!" They scoff and go, "Okay buddy. Hope it was worth waiting 18 months and overspending by $30k."

While I’m not too concerned with what “everyone” says, I guess the jokes on them since I paid $38k (well yeah, I did wait 19 months) for my base 2 door 7-speed with Sasquatch package. I thought I liked my FJ, but the Bronco is on another level of fun. I’m very happy with the 2.3L, but have thought a hybrid or possibly fully electric motor(s) would make it that much better. And that’s why I’m here, looking forward to what the new Scout actually becomes…and wondering how they’ll make it with a MT

 

[speedrye]

While I’m not too concerned with what “everyone” says, I guess the jokes on them since I paid $38k (well yeah, I did wait 19 months) for my base 2 door 7-speed with Sasquatch package. I thought I liked my FJ, but the Bronco is on another level of fun. I’m very happy with the 2.3L, but have thought a hybrid or possibly fully electric motor(s) would make it that much better. And that’s why I’m here, looking forward to what the new Scout actually becomes…and wondering how they’ll make it with a MT

Manual transmission you say? https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/manual-transmission-electric-vehicles-future-1234774864/

 

[J_P]

Manual transmission you say? https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/manual-transmission-electric-vehicles-future-1234774864/

So your saying there’s a chance
I had read about Toyota’s patent, but that’s an interesting article. Thanks

 

[PapaTire]

Good points and something we've talked about quite a bit (and continue to talk about!)

Cars were already increasingly becoming software-driven beyond just the engine CPU and transmission. A modern car typically has more than 10 different CPUs (sometimes far, far more) controlling everything from the engine parameters to the ABS braking system to the climate control system and on and on. This has been happening for the last 20 years and continues to happen at an even faster rate.

EVs in particular largely function on a software-based system. When the control systems on modern cars started to become mechanical devices that feed electronic systems (drive-by-wire) over the last 10-15 years, we've continued to move more and more towards software "involved" vehicles (right or wrong). So in the typical EV (and most ICE vehicles these days) when you press the accelerator pedal, it feeds electronic signals to a computer that not only determines how far you pressed the throttle but takes into consideration the rate of speed at which you press the throttle to try and determine exactly what you are asking for. This all happens in milliseconds, but it is the "fuzzy logic" the computer uses to figure out whether you want rapid maximum acceleration or a normal calm drive away from a stop sign. Same thing with braking as it helps the computer figure out whether the braking you are doing is "normal" or "panic" braking and reacts accordingly.

When it comes to controls on the interior it is the same thing. It logically makes sense that an offroad vehicle used in harsh conditions should probably have larger mechanical/old-school knobs that can be operated with gloves and such. Keep in mind those controls may still be electronic in nature and feed computer signals. That's just the way it is today. Moving controls to a screen give manufacturers the ability to simply redesign the controls if people aren't happy with them and it's a software update just like your phone. The same thing with any screen-based control system, anything you see on the screen could be changed and improved with just a software update whereas if the haptic buttons aren't going over well with customers, you can't really change them. So everything has its tradeoffs. I'm more old school and like a tradeoff between simple mechanical things to quickly change the heat or fan speed and also having the ability to do it through screen controls if I want.

Anyway, long post but hopefully that helps shed some light on what's going on when looking towards the future with new vehicle products.

Software solutions are great, and we have to be real and hold the Volkswagen group accountable for their lackluster software solutions up to this point. Just ask any ID.4 owner how VAG is doing with software.

 

[HattoriHanzoAxleshaft]

Good points and something we've talked about quite a bit (and continue to talk about!)

Cars were already increasingly becoming software-driven beyond just the engine CPU and transmission. A modern car typically has more than 10 different CPUs (sometimes far, far more) controlling everything from the engine parameters to the ABS braking system to the climate control system and on and on. This has been happening for the last 20 years and continues to happen at an even faster rate.

EVs in particular largely function on a software-based system. When the control systems on modern cars started to become mechanical devices that feed electronic systems (drive-by-wire) over the last 10-15 years, we've continued to move more and more towards software "involved" vehicles (right or wrong). So in the typical EV (and most ICE vehicles these days) when you press the accelerator pedal, it feeds electronic signals to a computer that not only determines how far you pressed the throttle but takes into consideration the rate of speed at which you press the throttle to try and determine exactly what you are asking for. This all happens in milliseconds, but it is the "fuzzy logic" the computer uses to figure out whether you want rapid maximum acceleration or a normal calm drive away from a stop sign. Same thing with braking as it helps the computer figure out whether the braking you are doing is "normal" or "panic" braking and reacts accordingly.

When it comes to controls on the interior it is the same thing. It logically makes sense that an offroad vehicle used in harsh conditions should probably have larger mechanical/old-school knobs that can be operated with gloves and such. Keep in mind those controls may still be electronic in nature and feed computer signals. That's just the way it is today. Moving controls to a screen give manufacturers the ability to simply redesign the controls if people aren't happy with them and it's a software update just like your phone. The same thing with any screen-based control system, anything you see on the screen could be changed and improved with just a software update whereas if the haptic buttons aren't going over well with customers, you can't really change them. So everything has its tradeoffs. I'm more old school and like a tradeoff between simple mechanical things to quickly change the heat or fan speed and also having the ability to do it through screen controls if I want.

Anyway, long post but hopefully that helps shed some light on what's going on when looking towards the future with new vehicle products.

It's a shame that the status quo is what's limiting Scout Motor's ability to make a simple vehicle. "It's Not Done That Way" seems to be a pretty negative statement this early in development. That's a strange commitment to "Pushing Boundaries"... accepting what's currently mainstream. Why not use your immense talents and resources to do something truly dynamic?

Why on earth does a simple climate control (heat/cool, slider to contol temp, and a three-level fan) need to run through a PCU? I don't need 15 different comfort levels in 4 fricken zones... Same thing with heated seats. A simple, hard-wired control that has a three level switch, rather than a central computer that fries everything when it goes.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

It's a shame that the status quo is what's limiting Scout Motor's ability to make a simple vehicle. "It's Not Done That Way" seems to be a pretty negative statement this early in development. That's a strange commitment to "Pushing Boundaries"... accepting what's currently mainstream. Why not use your immense talents and resources to do something truly dynamic?

Why on earth does a simple climate control (heat/cool, slider to contol temp, and a three-level fan) need to run through a PCU? I don't need 15 different comfort levels in 4 fricken zones... Same thing with heated seats. A simple, hard-wired control that has a three level switch, rather than a central computer that fries everything when it goes.

I’m not directly confirming or denying what will happen with Scouts products, especially this far out. I am just trying to shed light on what the current situation is with modern cars (or even those built in the last 15 years). Climate control is similar to your home thermostat except it needs to function in -30 and 130 temperature swings. Most home thermostats have some electronics involved in temperature control and controlling modern multi-zone systems. So does your car, and when it ties into a battery powered heat pump (for example) electronics are necessary to manage power consumption and temperature regulation.

Sorry, just trying to explain the state of the industry that has to be navigated.

 

[HattoriHanzoAxleshaft]

The "State of the Industry" hasn't excited me very much... If Scout Motors is relying on aping what made other marques successful and not using their position/resources to develop something truly revolutionary both on the factory floor and in the design room from the ground up, then they should change their mission statement from "To lead the charge into the great unknown" to "We'll follow what's been tried. It's safer for our Bottom Line".

I get that a BEV is a totally different animal than the first ICE Scout 80 sketched on a napkin... but those were the roots of what made the Scout so usable and desirable.

Simple and Cheap, and customizable for different duties. That's it. It was so popular because of those reasons. If Scout Motors strays from these principles that made the original so good that Ford started making a competitor, then I'm on the wrong forum.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

The "State of the Industry" hasn't excited me very much... If Scout Motors is relying on aping what made other marques successful and not using their position/resources to develop something truly revolutionary both on the factory floor and in the design room from the ground up, then they should change their mission statement from "To lead the charge into the great unknown" to "We'll follow what's been tried. It's safer for our Bottom Line".

I get that a BEV is a totally different animal than the first ICE Scout 80 sketched on a napkin... but those were the roots of what made the Scout so usable and desirable.

Simple and Cheap, and customizable for different duties. That's it. It was so popular because of those reasons. If Scout Motors strays from these principles that made the original so good that Ford started making a competitor, then I'm on the wrong forum.

I’m not sure that a discussion about why electronics are so commonplace should automatically lead to condemnation of a product that isn’t even built yet.

Truthfully (and realistically) there are very few “revolutionary” products in the automotive space. On one hand you are asking for full manual controls and cheap and rugged, yet expect the vehicle to be revolutionary and presumably competitive in the market from a features standpoint. Base models can be far more basic than higher trim levels. But given that this will be a BEV there are additional limitations in terms of what can be done. There is also an opportunity to do something new or different in the AWD BEV space as it is evolving technology. We’ve seen how Rivian and Hummer have done it and we will soon see how Jeep plans to do it with the Recon BEV. Meanwhile teams here are moving forward with our own idea on how to do it.

Let’s see how this goes. The new Scout can’t make everyone happy and we understand that. We will do our best to try though. One thing the team understands completely is the heritage and history of the brand and the pressure to live up to the name. We are excited.

 

[HattoriHanzoAxleshaft]

My apologies if I came across as brusque. The history I have with the vintage vehicles draws deep emotions from me. The old vintage IHC's are everything today's bland and overpriced appliances aren't, and the chance of seeing a finalized vehicle I'll be able to both modify and maintain myself in any way as personally or as enjoyably as my current binder, gets more slim with every concession to the "modern standard BEV" that Scout Motors needs to take in order to appeal to the masses and conform to standards that (to many) seem unnecessary and inhibiting to a vehicle aimed to Make You Feel More Free.

IIRC the original scout went for $1,800 out the door in 1961, with inflation that's about $17k in current dollars, and you could find a rusted hulk in a field & glom any working parts that were left for a song. Ignition quit working? Wire in a push-button and carry on.

I guess a conversion for my current rig is the best overall answer to my particular gripes. Our newest family vehicle is an 07. I've had the displeasure of driving quite a few newer vehicles whether loaners or rentals, and I found that driver engagement and overall enjoyment when behind the wheel was just... gone, and it got worse as time went on.
I can tell what RPM my 800 is hitting by what particular interior part is rattling or buzzing... I can feel the road & driving conditions in the wheel, shifter, and unboosted brake pedal. It's a driving experience that takes all of my attention the way no modern transport does, and it's exhilarating to still learn new things as I drive it two years and 7k miles later. 30mph in my 800 on a twisty, Redwood-dappled and neglected Tarmac with my wing windows (closed) whistling in the crosswind, knowing I could go anywhere and back reliably (and we always got ours ridiculously cheap, so I really can't compare what we've paid for our three over their life spans) is what driving a Scout has always been. From Falling through a frozen beaver pond in the Smoky Bear MN State Forest, to family trips to the Big City as a kid, ours truly went everywhere.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I totally get it. The analog feel of a first generation GTI, Scout 800 or any old car is hard to beat or duplicate today. But we are also talking about 40-60 years of time since those vehicles were on the market.

There was a sign in the Chicago Fire Department for the 150th Anniversary of the department that said, “150 years of tradition unimpeded by progress.”

Always made me laugh.

 

[HattoriHanzoAxleshaft]

I thought Albert Einstein of all people saying "Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal." was pretty telling.