What do you love or hate about other off-road vehicles

[SpaceEVDriver]

The large size is the worst part of modern SUVs and trucks.
I'd be willing to take a huge loss on our Lightning if there were a 1989 Toyota pickup-sized or modern Maverick-sized EV truck available for purchase today.
I do tow fairly often, but most of my driving is hauling stuff and the bed of our old 1989 pickup was much better for hauling than the 5.5' bed of today's monster trucks.

We have a reservation, but are unlikely to convert that to a purchase if the planned size is maintained--it's no better than the Lightning we have now.

 

[R1TVT]

The large size is the worst part of modern SUVs and trucks.
I'd be willing to take a huge loss on our Lightning if there were a 1989 Toyota pickup-sized or modern Maverick-sized EV truck available for purchase today.
I do tow fairly often, but most of my driving is hauling stuff and the bed of our old 1989 pickup was much better for hauling than the 5.5' bed of today's monster trucks.

We have a reservation, but are unlikely to convert that to a purchase if the planned size is maintained--it's no better than the Lightning we have now.

Curious why you chose a lightening and not a Rivian if you were looking for something closer to a Maverick?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Curious why you chose a lightening and not a Rivian if you were looking for something closer to a Maverick?

View attachment 3820

Three reasons:
First and most important, we got the Lightning Lariat for $30k less than an equivalently-equipped R1T and our trade-in was valued at $5k more by the Ford dealer.
Second, we were literally in the process of buying the R1T (they still have $1000 of my money) when I got a text from the Ford dealer offering the deal on the Lightning.
Third, the bed of the R1T is even more useless (for me) than the bed of the Lightning.

 

[R1TVT]

One of my friend's got a similar deal on a Ford, they were having a hard time moving inventory here.

I see the Rivian and Ford as very different trucks, but when you said "Maverick-sized EV truck" the bed of the Maverick is exactly the same length as the R1T's.

The bed length of the Terra (plus the roll down rear window) will be a nice upgrade from the shorter R1t bed for my needs also.

 

[Rampy]

One of my friend's got a similar deal on a Ford, they were having a hard time moving inventory here.

I see the Rivian and Ford as very different trucks, but when you said "Maverick-sized EV truck" the bed of the Maverick is exactly the same length as the R1T's.

The bed length of the Terra (plus the roll down rear window) will be a nice upgrade from the shorter R1t bed for my needs also.

Our Ford dealer was really working hard to get us to trade in the F250 for a fully loaded extended range Lightning & was actually giving us more than we paid for the 250 while having a incredibly low price on the Lightning

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

One of my friend's got a similar deal on a Ford, they were having a hard time moving inventory here.

I see the Rivian and Ford as very different trucks, but when you said "Maverick-sized EV truck" the bed of the Maverick is exactly the same length as the R1T's.

The bed length of the Terra (plus the roll down rear window) will be a nice upgrade from the shorter R1t bed for my needs also.

Yeah. The Maverick size is good, but I don't like the configuration. I would replace the second row of the cabin with bed.

 

[TaconicBear]

Didn't read all of these responses but since we're talking off-road, will we have the ability to lift the Scout up 4, 6in for more off-roading experiences?

Can't be all things to all people and uses. If that's your game build yourself something appropriate, or have IHPA clone you one of theirs.

 

[CarTechGeek]

Yeah. The Maverick size is good, but I don't like the configuration. I would replace the second row of the cabin with bed.

While we often see requests online for single cab, longer beds, that appears to be a small, but vocal minority.

The only midsize that still has 2 seat single cab is the Toyota Tacoma, with a single row XtraCab, and a longer bed, but almost no one buys those, even though it will cost >$2000 to get the bigger two row cab, and shorter bed. You would think as the only single cab, midsize left, buyers would flock to it, but there is no evidence that is happening...

If enough people don't put their money where their mouth is, those options just disappear.

The reality is that modern pickups are Family SUVs with a small box on the back, and only an insignificant portion of buyers want a family SUV that seats only 2 people.

 

[TaconicBear]

While we often see requests online for single cab, longer beds, that appears to be a small, but vocal minority.

The only midsize that still has 2 seat single cab is the Toyota Tacoma, with a single row XtraCab, and a longer bed, but almost no one buys those, even though it will cost >$2000 to get the bigger two row cab, and shorter bed. You would think as the only single cab, midsize left, buyers would flock to it, but there is no evidence that is happening...

If enough people don't put their money where their mouth is, those options just disappear.

The reality is that modern pickups are Family SUVs with a small box on the back, and only an insignificant portion of buyers want a family SUV that seats only 2 people.

I'm not convinced your truth applies in the matter of Toyota pickups. Toyota's policy of "we decide what to build, you'll buy what we build, no orders taken" continues to hinder the brand. I wouldn't matter how many of us would want that configuration; if Toyota's production guru in Japan has decided (as is apparent) that we shouldn't have that truck, it will not appear at dealers — and it doesn't. Other manufacturers appear to have at least a modicum of customer & dealer feedback influencing their production lines. My thoughts reflect conversations with several Toyota sales folk in several dealerships, and are seconded by several YouTube videos on the theme 'Why you Cannot Order a Toyota {model}'.

Toyota's HiLux is perhaps the most rugged, serviceable, and adaptable pickup in the world. Witness their use by almost every warring faction in the world. I'm sure Toyota has the ability to adapt and refit it quickly to whatever need arises, but for some reason they never allow it to touch the shores of North America.

 

[Rampy]

I'm not convinced your truth applies in the matter of Toyota pickups. Toyota's policy of "we decide what to build, you'll buy what we build, no orders taken" continues to hinder the brand. I wouldn't matter how many of us would want that configuration; if Toyota's production guru in Japan has decided (as is apparent) that we shouldn't have that truck, it will not appear at dealers — and it doesn't. Other manufacturers appear to have at least a modicum of customer & dealer feedback influencing their production lines. My thoughts reflect conversations with several Toyota sales folk in several dealerships, and are seconded by several YouTube videos on the theme 'Why you Cannot Order a Toyota {model}'.

Toyota's HiLux is perhaps the most rugged, serviceable, and adaptable pickup in the world. Witness their use by almost every warring faction in the world. I'm sure Toyota has the ability to adapt and refit it quickly to whatever need arises, but for some reason they never allow it to touch the shores of North America.

We had diesel HiLux’s overseas and they had lots of room & really got up and boogied, we beat them to death running em 24/7 & they held up incredibly well

It’s a shame they can’t be imported, I’d love to have one

 

[CarTechGeek]

I'm not convinced your truth applies in the matter of Toyota pickups. Toyota's policy of "we decide what to build, you'll buy what we build, no orders taken" continues to hinder the brand. I wouldn't matter how many of us would want that configuration; if Toyota's production guru in Japan has decided (as is apparent) that we shouldn't have that truck, it will not appear at dealers — and it doesn't. Other manufacturers appear to have at least a modicum of customer & dealer feedback influencing their production lines. My thoughts reflect conversations with several Toyota sales folk in several dealerships, and are seconded by several YouTube videos on the theme 'Why you Cannot Order a Toyota {model}'.

Toyota's HiLux is perhaps the most rugged, serviceable, and adaptable pickup in the world. Witness their use by almost every warring faction in the world. I'm sure Toyota has the ability to adapt and refit it quickly to whatever need arises, but for some reason they never allow it to touch the shores of North America.

I have seen some people say they can't and others say they can custom order. Custom to the extent of what the web page packages allow. You obviously don't have à la carte option selection. You can only pick combinations that Toyota allows. For instance you Cannot get the Manual Transmission and the XtraCab together. But some dealers discourage ordering, or may not have allocation to do that.

You may have to be strategic, and pick a bigger regional dealer with more allocation, and be prepared to wait, but it does seem possible.

But this is largely besides the point. Regardless of how difficult Toyota makes, they are the ONLY midsize Pickup that even has the option, which is clear indicator that this options was so seldom requested, that every other brand abandoned it.

AFAICT, RAM has even abandoned it from Full Size Pickups. GM and Ford still have the option but only on basic trucks aimed at fleets/tradesmen (which pretty much the only place I see them).

Bottom line: There weren't enough people to putting money behind that choice for manufacturers to keep building them.

So no surprise when new trucks show up, that it isn't an option. I can pretty much guarantee it will never show up on Unibody Pickups like the Santa Cruz, Maverick or Ridgeline, because the bigger open bed presents much greater structural issues on a Unibody vehicles.

 

[TaconicBear]

Not at all. Ask anyone that lives in where they use road salt. Rust is still a problem for owning vehicles at 10+ years.

Body on Frame trucks are still extremely susceptible to Road Salt, as frames tend to have openings, and not so great corrosion protection.

Though from the Scout announcements the frame will be galvanized, which is a massive step forward since AFAIK, none of the other truck makers galvanize their frames.

I just had a conversation with a couple of the local resident experts on box frame corrosion – their names are Mus Musculus and Peromyscus polionotus. They tell me that box frames are ideal homesites, doorways are numerous, roof and walls strong, there are long runways for the kids to get their exercise, great ventilation, and the low spots make great bathrooms, and it's neat that the drains open up so quickly once they start using them. They did complain that they were sometimes separated from their family or normal food supply but agreed that the other advantages far outweigh those short interruptions. I'm sure, @CarTechGeek, that you can find equally expert consultants wherever you are in Canada, I've met some in the 9 provinces where I have visited.

P.S. My consultants tell me they don't miss the box frames on my Toyotas because they provide so much great fluffy insulation for home building and they find lots of tasty treats especially on the wires and in the fuse box. I try to convince them it's not nutritious, but soy is soy. They also passed along that their cousin Tamias striatus really likes the flavour of gas tank filler pipes and really appreciates the table next to it so he can sit and eat in comfort.

 

[LastDayScout]

While we often see requests online for single cab, longer beds, that appears to be a small, but vocal minority.

The only midsize that still has 2 seat single cab is the Toyota Tacoma, with a single row XtraCab, and a longer bed, but almost no one buys those, even though it will cost >$2000 to get the bigger two row cab, and shorter bed. You would think as the only single cab, midsize left, buyers would flock to it, but there is no evidence that is happening...

If enough people don't put their money where their mouth is, those options just disappear.

The reality is that modern pickups are Family SUVs with a small box on the back, and only an insignificant portion of buyers want a family SUV that seats only 2 people.

I’m still holding out hope for a vocational trim level.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

While we often see requests online for single cab, longer beds, that appears to be a small, but vocal minority.

The only midsize that still has 2 seat single cab is the Toyota Tacoma, with a single row XtraCab, and a longer bed, but almost no one buys those, even though it will cost >$2000 to get the bigger two row cab, and shorter bed. You would think as the only single cab, midsize left, buyers would flock to it, but there is no evidence that is happening...

If enough people don't put their money where their mouth is, those options just disappear.

The reality is that modern pickups are Family SUVs with a small box on the back, and only an insignificant portion of buyers want a family SUV that seats only 2 people.

First, the question was what do we love or hate about other off-road vehicles. I'm not going to limit my answer to some mythical marketing "truth" of what everyone else likes. Why even bother asking the question if the only allowable answers are, "we love what's for sale at all the other dealers. Please, sir, may we have some more?"

I hate the inanely large size of modern 4x4 trucks and SUVs.

Second, The dealers in my area do not offer the 4x4 Xtra Cab. They only order the 4x4 options tied to the larger vehicles. I previously owned a Tacoma TRD Off-road DC Long Bed. I would have flown to another state to buy a 4x4 Xtra Cab Long Bed if it came with the TRD Off-Road trim options. But nobody within 500 miles of me offered even a 4x4 xtra cab long bed A stock TRD Off-Road xtra-cab doesn't exist, so nobody knows how it would sell.

 

[R1TVT]

I'm envisioning a long wheel-base with a light, long bed making for a poor off-road experience - I have a vision of long-bed pogo'ing up and down the trail and the light rear end slipping out (with poor traction) going up hill.

 

[CarTechGeek]

First, the question was what do we love or hate about other off-road vehicles. I'm not going to limit my answer to some mythical marketing "truth" of what everyone else likes. Why even bother asking the question if the only allowable answers are, "we love what's for sale at all the other dealers. Please, sir, may we have some more?"

I hate the inanely large size of modern 4x4 trucks and SUVs.

Second, The dealers in my area do not offer the 4x4 Xtra Cab. They only order the 4x4 options tied to the larger vehicles. I previously owned a Tacoma TRD Off-road DC Long Bed. I would have flown to another state to buy a 4x4 Xtra Cab Long Bed if it came with the TRD Off-Road trim options. But nobody within 500 miles of me offered even a 4x4 xtra cab long bed A stock TRD Off-Road xtra-cab doesn't exist, so nobody knows how it would sell.

People are free to post their fantasies. But other people can also point out why fantasies, like the Maverick with single row cab is NEVER going to happen (where I jumped in).

As far as Toyota XtraCab 4X4, that is theoretically possible on the SR5 trim. It should be possible to order it if you are prepared to put money down and wait, and maybe wait some more.

AFAICT, there have been a few SR5 XtraCab 4x4's built. Toyota gave this guy one to play with:

Should You Buy a 2-Door Toyota Tacoma? We Drove One to Find Out

A review of the two-door Toyota Tacoma XtraCab, which replaces the Access Cab's small rear seats with lockable storage for 2024.

www.gearpatrol.com

Two-seater pickups have gone out of fashion for a reason
Double cabs have been revolutionary for pickups. They make owning a pickup more convenient and practical, whether we’re talking about a Ford F-150, a Toyota Tacoma or a Ford Maverick. Judging from my week with the Tacoma XtraCab, two-door pickups won’t be making a mainstream comeback.

Granted, I’m not at the stereotypical “Tacoma dude life” stage, but the XtraCab swiftly became useless in everyday life with two kids. Token rear seats would have at least let me try to use the truck for school runs. And not having seats didn’t open up a tremendous amount of storage space.

 

[TaconicBear]

I'm envisioning a long wheel-base with a light, long bed making for a poor off-road experience - I have a vision of long-bed pogo'ing up and down the trail and the light rear end slipping out (with poor traction) going up hill.

Well, of course. But what is the reality here, and do expectations fit it? Length of bed is really irrelevant in this discussion. Other than manufacturers making unrealistic advertizing videos, who in their right mind expects to take a pickup off roading and up boulder strewn trails with the bed as empty as the day it was manufactured? No, you fill it to overflowing with whatever you think you might or might not need in the course of your adventure. Filled with replacement parts, recovery hardware, and even creature comforts like food and sleeping bags. If you do it right that bed will be well down in the springs before you leave the driveway. Jeff Ismail at IHPA has an interesting YT video showing what all he packs in the bed of that ugly pickup when he goes on adventure. It is a good reset for reality thinking.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I'm envisioning a long wheel-base with a light, long bed making for a poor off-road experience - I have a vision of long-bed pogo'ing up and down the trail and the light rear end slipping out (with poor traction) going up hill.

The weight distribution is far more equal in an EV pickup than a gas pickup. This isn't an issue.

 

[LastDayScout]

The weight distribution is far more equal in an EV pickup than a gas pickup. This isn't an issue.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[R1TVT]

The weight distribution is far more equal in an EV pickup than a gas pickup. This isn't an issue.

I do own one, but with a shorter bed, and you are correct, it isn't an issue in terms of weight distribution alone.

I was commenting on the off-road handling and capabilities of a longer-bed pick up truck and the characteristics of driving a longer bed truck off-road (ICE or EV). Most trails are not straight, which means more difficulty with maneuverability off-road or over more technical terrain with a longer wheelbase. I imagine that due to pure physics alone, even with equal weight distribution, a longer wheel base (even if only 10" longer) would equal a rougher ride and more pogo'ing (regardless of weight distribution).

I have never been off-roading in a longer wheel base truck with a long bed. Most trucks perform better off-road with shorter wheelbases, generally speaking, since they do provide better maneuverability and can offer better traction without adding weight over the rear axles, and offer the ability to clear obstacles that require better ramp-over angles.