What do you love or hate about other off-road vehicles

[Gvaughan]

Enough legroom in the backseat for individuals over 5’8” can be comfortable. I was highly disappointed in the legroom in the Bronco. Off-roading is made to be enjoyed with friends…and not just smaller ones

 

[Bodie]

Since I have looked hard at the new Bronco, my likes and dislikes are based mainly off that and my Scout II.
Like
Top and doors come off
Big tires, off road ability
Modularity/options
Washout floors, MGV seats available
Flat rear floor/bed
Tailgate
Chrome
Extra switches

Dislike
Black plastic parts (including top)
All black interior
Cheap center consoles. I have put a locking steel Tuffy security console into every 4x4 I've ever had. If the new Scout doesn't have something equivalent, at least make it easy to replace it with a Tuffy.
Swing gate
Cramped feeling in cockpit
non-fold flat seat

 

[JohnBills]

I want to see bigger cupholders. We're explorers and workers. Our water bottles are big and sturdy but too many automakers insist on keeping the standard cupholder small. I want all passengers to have an easy, secure place to put their Hydro Flask, Yeti, or Stanley bottle.

 

[Bodie]

Thought of a few more.
Dislike factory fender flares on a base model and I HATE black plastic ones. It's like the designers drew up the wrong vehicle. Flares should only be needed if the tires are larger than stock. IF they're part of a package (cough, Sasquatch), at least paint them even if it is black.
Provide grab handles for getting in and put them in a useful location. The Bronco ones on the edges of the dashboard are absolutely useless.
Like the 2-door Scout II proportions. I'm not against 4 doors but don't make it look like a station wagon. The 2-door Bronco (and Jeep) are too short. The 4-door Bronco looks like a station wagon on the base suspension.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Thought of a few more.
Dislike factory fender flares on a base model and I HATE black plastic ones. It's like the designers drew up the wrong vehicle. Flares should only be needed if the tires are larger than stock. IF they're part of a package (cough, Sasquatch), at least paint them even if it is black.
Provide grab handles for getting in and put them in a useful location. The Bronco ones on the edges of the dashboard are absolutely useless.
Like the 2-door Scout II proportions. I'm not against 4 doors but don't make it look like a station wagon. The 2-door Bronco (and Jeep) are too short. The 4-door Bronco looks like a station wagon on the base suspension.

I think part of the argument against painting them is how easy they are to scratch and damage cosmetically when off roading. Chris and I are pushing to design them in a way that they can be removed and swapped out. This would provide a lot of flexibility for models, painted/unpainted, accessory versions and aftermarket versions. Plus they could be made bigger or smaller and still bolt on to the factory location.

Keep the feedback coming.

 

[R1TVT]

100% agree on that. Rocks and debris flying in and around the edges of the wheel wells can create havoc - especially in colder climates. Big area for rust mitigation!

 

[LastDayScout]

I know it’s not the look for everyone, but I had my TJ fender flares linexed inside and out. Bumpers and tub too for that matter. It doesn’t fade like plastic, resists rust and scratches.

 

[Bodie]

Bedlining them is a great idea, IF you have them. I just can't understate how much I loathe black plastic on vehicles. It doesn't look good when new and only gets worse. My main point is that I shouldn't need them unless I, the buyer, chooses to get them because I chose to replace the stock wheels/tires with larger ones. Original Scout/Scout II didn't have or need fender flares, please keep it that way.

 

[Chaparral]

I think part of the argument against painting them is how easy they are to scratch and damage cosmetically when off roading. Chris and I are pushing to design them in a way that they can be removed and swapped out. This would provide a lot of flexibility for models, painted/unpainted, accessory versions and aftermarket versions. Plus they could be made bigger or smaller and still bolt on to the factory location.

Keep the feedback coming.

I’m so glad you guys are thinking about the aftermarket. This is a big key to success with off road enthusiasts. Rather than something that individual team members need to “push for” it should be a core design principle for this vehicle - a question the designers need to ask about every design decision.

Ford hasn’t made it super easy for aftermarket customization, for example people switching out the Bronco bumper are spending a lot of time with the less than straight forward task of relocating a sensor. There’s an opportunity for Scout to do better in this area and make it obvious that they built something for enthusiasts. Something many buyers will want to do is add lights. They will want an auxiliary switch panel to turn them on as well as convenient places to mount the lights. The designers should think for example about how wires will be run in the aftermarket and find ways to make that easier and better. It would be great if there were plenty of mounting lugs in certain places around the vehicle.

 

[J Alynn]

Bedlining them is a great idea, IF you have them. I just can't understate how much I loathe black plastic on vehicles. It doesn't look good when new and only gets worse. My main point is that I shouldn't need them unless I, the buyer, chooses to get them because I chose to replace the stock wheels/tires with larger ones. Original Scout/Scout II didn't have or need fender flares, please keep it that way.

I agree I hate the look of plastic fender flare, bottom skirts and front/rear bumpers on many mainstream SUV’s. That said I like the color matched flares on my daughters Bronco OBX. I think the flares give it the look of something more than a mediocre suv. I like that Jamie’s team is pushing for interchangeable parts and pieces for changes and OEM/aftermarket pieces. Again, as we also keep reminding-a very small portion of buyers are hard core off roofers. I like the flares and have no desire to have to do mod work after I buy a vehicle. Many like to tinker-I’ve done small add-ons here and there for my daughters Bronco but I don’t want to deal with stuff like flares after I buy the vehicle. I also don’t want to pay for them and then pay someone to paint them.
The flexibility needs to be integrated to buy a complete ready to roll daily driver as well as a starter kit so people can spend $1,000’s and lots of hours building their rigs.
We need to remember the original Scout was a farm truck that could take the family on a road trip or visit to a city. They weren’t initially made to custom mod every part-this came about years later as people restored and mod’d them. Aftermarket and post OEM adds will be critical for off-road enthusiasts but again it’s a very small portion of the buyer pool and sales must appeal to mass buyer group in order for Scout to succeed.

Maybe Scout needs to develop a special operations division like Land Rover has but instead of international tycoon improvements for armor plating, tactical anssault/protection and mini guns it should be geared to hard core off roading. Though a mini gun and turret would be awesome on a Scout

 

[Chaparral]

Aftermarket and post OEM adds will be critical for off-road enthusiasts but again it’s a very small portion of the buyer pool and sales must appeal to mass buyer group in order for Scout to succeed.

I think the size of the off roader market is huge and that the only way to succeed is to lean into that very strongly and with little compromise.

I think Scout Motors have made it very clear that they are making a rugged vehicle, what they are calling an RUV. This isn’t something for polishing up and cruising around in luxury. It’s something that is designed to get beat up. It’s something that working men will take to a job site and it will be priced as such. This isn’t going to be a Rivian with retro design language. It’s imagining where Scout would be today if they had been pushing their design forward for the past 40 years but ultimately still making something that serves a farmer. According to the Techcrunch article it will be about half the price of a Rivian. So it’s not competing for the luxury end at all. The Scout Motors CEO has said “no frills”.

You know what looks terrible when it’s getting beat up? Painted plastic. An RUV should have no painted plastic at all. They should stick to materials that take on added character as they get scratched and dinged or can even be beaten back into shape or materials that can be easily user replaced such as rugged plastic parts. Plastic is probably the way to go for some external parts being both cheap and light. The bumpers should probably be power coated steel because they will need to be able to take the weight of the vehicle without breaking or permanently bending.

 

[Harris005]

I think part of the argument against painting them is how easy they are to scratch and damage cosmetically when off roading. Chris and I are pushing to design them in a way that they can be removed and swapped out. This would provide a lot of flexibility for models, painted/unpainted, accessory versions and aftermarket versions. Plus they could be made bigger or smaller and still bolt on to the factory location.

Keep the feedback coming.

For those that have not seen this, the Bronco made it easy to interchange their fender flares.

I personally have always liked the look on Scouts when the tires stick out a couple inches more than the fender itself.

I don't know the rules of vehicle manufacturing, but I would suspect a new vehicle rolling off the line couldn't have this look. This could be a work around to that idea. The wider fender flares allow the wider tires to come off the assembly line, but the narrow to non existent flares are ordered by the customer and thrown in the frunk when delivered....to be easily swapped out as needed.

Bronco easy swap out "delete fender kit" option

The one detail I notice is that the bumpers are made to match the wider fender flares. You can see the difference with the bumper sticking out between these two pics. Not sure I'm a fan of it hanging out there??

 

[NewEnglandDannyD]

Like the Rivian look overall but cant stand the nose/headlights.

Dont like how the Jeep 4 door or Bronco doesnt feel like you have the top off when you have the top off (I adore my Scout II with no top)

Trunk/cargo space - I honesty think the Scout II is perfect on this point - not too little and not too much. Jeep’s have never had enough; so many people I know use these as their family SUV, and its ridiculous watching them try to pack a family in to them for a trip.

I have always liked the 4 runner; just wished it had a removable top.

 

[JohnBills]

Like the Rivian look overall but cant stand the nose/headlights.

Dont like how the Jeep 4 door or Bronco doesnt feel like you have the top off when you have the top off (I adore my Scout II with no top)

Trunk/cargo space - I honesty think the Scout II is perfect on this point - not too little and not too much. Jeep’s have never had enough; so many people I know use these as their family SUV, and its ridiculous watching them try to pack a family in to them for a trip.

I have always liked the 4 runner; just wished it had a removable top.

I loved the 4Runner growing up. Felt like the perfect size to me.

 

[ColeAK]

For those that have not seen this, the Bronco made it easy to interchange their fender flares.

I personally have always liked the look on Scouts when the tires stick out a couple inches more than the fender itself.

View attachment 919

I don't know the rules of vehicle manufacturing, but I would suspect a new vehicle rolling off the line couldn't have this look. This could be a work around to that idea. The wider fender flares allow the wider tires to come off the assembly line, but the narrow to non existent flares are ordered by the customer and thrown in the frunk when delivered....to be easily swapped out as needed.

Bronco easy swap out "delete fender kit" option
View attachment 920

The one detail I notice is that the bumpers are made to match the wider fender flares. You can see the difference with the bumper sticking out between these two pics. Not sure I'm a fan of it hanging out there??

View attachment 921

Tires that poke out beyond the wheel wells are completely pointless on an off road rig. They widen it, trash the paint, limit travel, can change scrub radius,…. They are entirely for looks. Keep the tires in the wheel wells where they belong.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I’m so glad you guys are thinking about the aftermarket. This is a big key to success with off road enthusiasts. Rather than something that individual team members need to “push for” it should be a core design principle for this vehicle - a question the designers need to ask about every design decision.

Ford hasn’t made it super easy for aftermarket customization, for example people switching out the Bronco bumper are spending a lot of time with the less than straight forward task of relocating a sensor. There’s an opportunity for Scout to do better in this area and make it obvious that they built something for enthusiasts. Something many buyers will want to do is add lights. They will want an auxiliary switch panel to turn them on as well as convenient places to mount the lights. The designers should think for example about how wires will be run in the aftermarket and find ways to make that easier and better. It would be great if there were plenty of mounting lugs in certain places around the vehicle.

We are thinking of both our own accessories and trim packages and leaving the door open for the aftermarket. Body on ladder frame is one example, and there will be more we can talk about in the future.

Modern bumpers are tricky. They need to conform to slow speed and high-speed impact standards and a myriad of other requirements. A lot of modern vehicles have parking distance sensors as a "safety feature" and when your competitors offer it, and you don't, it is a competitive feature set issue and a potential liability issue. So with that in mind, we have to get creative with a rugged vehicle on where to locate those sensors so they don't interfere with aftermarket or accessory bumpers/winches. Bumpers are the most often installed location for those sensors because the bumpers, in most cases, are the farthest points sticking out on the car to measure the distance to an object you might hit. The sensors can be finicky to design in a way that they can be easily removed and transferred to another bumper.

I mention this just to give some background on the how and why behind some of the decisions and issues car manufacturers have to face and where potential compromises stem from.

 

[JohnBills]

We are thinking of both of our own accessories and trim packages and leaving the door open for the aftermarket. Body on ladder frame is one example and there will be more we can talk about in the future.

Modern bumpers are tricky. They need to conform to slow speed and high speed impact standards and a myriad of other requirements. A lot of modern vehicles have parking distance sensors as a "safety feature" and when your competitors offer it and you don't, it is a competitive feature set issue and a potential liability issue. So with that in mind, we have to get creative with a rugged vehicle on where to locate those sensors so they don't interfere with aftermarket or accessory bumpers/winches. Bumpers are the most often installed location for those sensors because the bumpers in most cases are the farthest points sticking out on the car to measure distance to an object you might hit. The sensors can be finicky to design in a way that they can be easily removed and transferred to another bumper as well.

I mention this just to give some background on the how and why behind some of the decisions and issues car manufacturers have to make and where potential compromises stem from.

Thanks for this level of response. Very insightful.

 

[jfadams304]

As someone who prefers to stick to trails than crawling, general off-road assists like descent control and the ability to turn off traction control are nice to have. Positive confirmation of a locker engagement is also nice (though not sure that is applicable).

The biggest positive between one off road vehicle to another is tires and many off-roaders miss the mark coming from the lot. My current "off-road" trim pickup came with about 1/2 an inch of tread and I wouldn't be very comfortable pushing those tires very hard. If i lived somewhere with more treacherous terrain I would have needed to immediately upgrade them. To sum up, off-road designed vehicles should come with tires to match. Full size spare as well.

As a Scout II half cab owner and a modern pickup owner, the ability to weatherproof the bed on the pickup version would be amazing. Tonneau covers are good but not great. My daily driver has sizeable gaps around the tailgate that allow water in. Of course, this could be handled aftermarket, but would be valuable to have.

 

[Chaparral]

We are thinking of both our own accessories and trim packages and leaving the door open for the aftermarket. Body on ladder frame is one example, and there will be more we can talk about in the future.

Modern bumpers are tricky. They need to conform to slow speed and high-speed impact standards and a myriad of other requirements. A lot of modern vehicles have parking distance sensors as a "safety feature" and when your competitors offer it, and you don't, it is a competitive feature set issue and a potential liability issue. So with that in mind, we have to get creative with a rugged vehicle on where to locate those sensors so they don't interfere with aftermarket or accessory bumpers/winches. Bumpers are the most often installed location for those sensors because the bumpers, in most cases, are the farthest points sticking out on the car to measure the distance to an object you might hit. The sensors can be finicky to design in a way that they can be easily removed and transferred to another bumper.

I mention this just to give some background on the how and why behind some of the decisions and issues car manufacturers have to face and where potential compromises stem from.

Thank you Jamie. I just mentioned in another thread that it would be good for Scout to provide some design guidance for after-market companies. For example, Apple provide design guidance for accessory makers in the form of a published document with drawings and design requirements. This ensures that the third party is fully aware of factors such as how much space needs to be left around sensors for them to work properly. There is a surprisingly large amount of such information needed just for a cell phone or iPad. Creating something like this for an off-roader would be something of a dream job for me (and probably a million other people).

If I correctly remember the YouTube video I watched, the sensor in the Bronco bumper is for adaptive cruise control. A third party accessory maker is offering a bumper needed to support a winch. If I remember correctly, they needed to make a bracket to hold the sensor in its original position. This isn’t going to be the only person adding a winch to the front of their Bronco. Sensors are not something to interfere with and should be placed in optimum positions. Documentation would set certain boundaries for accessory makers to work within and give the owner a basis for knowing why a certain modification might be a bad idea. For example, there might be a maximum weight that can be safely added to front of the vehicle. Users should probably be strongly encouraged to stick to safety certified factory bumpers but there is opportunity to encourage accessory makers in other areas.

 

[NewEnglandDannyD]

The trunk space on the Scout II is just perfect, dimensionally. You just can’t do this on today’s Jeep or Bronco. And yes I love the idea of a real tailgate on the new Scout