What do you love or hate about other off-road vehicles

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Jamie@ScoutMotors

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Ok Scouts,

Our designers and engineers are looking for some more feedback from all of you and this time it is on:

What do you like or dislike about other off-road vehicles?



Thanks in advance for your opinions!

- Jamie
 
-Bronco grab bars are useless. Posted this the other day. Need to be mounted up on the A pillar

-Bronco doesn’t have a flat load rear floor. NEEDS to be flat-especially with a tailgate at the rear

-windshield needs a bit more rake or go gorilla glass with exterior clear film.

-not having a white, mounded removable roof
 
@Jamie@ScoutMotors below are some random, general thoughts. I also assume you are looking for feedback on factory/OEM products and not aftermarket creations.

Likes:
  • Large stock tires (Bronco and to a lesser extent Jeep)
  • a small lift to enhance the vehicle's stance without making it look silly. essentially something to fit a 33" comfortably stock (Bronco nails this with the exception of the flares)
  • multi-purpose bumpers
  • burly exhaust
  • aftermarket options/offerings (Jeep)
  • sport mode (love this on my Grand Cherokee)
  • two-tone hardtops

Dislikes:
  • fender flares that are too large (Bronco)
  • too much plastic in the cockpit (Bronco, Jeep)
  • stick shifts with minimal throw (Bronco, Jeep)
  • not enough optionality when it comes to a manual transmission (Bronco, Jeep)
  • US Defenders ('94' - '97) drive like your in a tin can, sort of like a Toyota.
  • Any offroad vehicle that has less than 6 cylinders
  • Turning radius of the Land Rovers are too wide (that may have changed but you could barely turn a normal corner in a Disco)
  • Gear shifts like that of the updated Defender that are in awkward locations. It looks like the Defender shift is in the way of the dash controls. Keep in mind I've never been in one. They just look like they're in the way. Just keep them on the console...
  • Side hinge tailgates
  • Rim offerings that are too large
  • Partially removable tops (Grenadier)
 
@Jamie@ScoutMotors below are some random, general thoughts. I also assume you are looking for feedback on factory/OEM products and not aftermarket creations.

Likes:
  • Large stock tires (Bronco and to a lesser extent Jeep)
  • a small lift to enhance the vehicle's stance without making it look silly. essentially something to fit a 33" comfortably stock (Bronco nails this with the exception of the flares)
  • multi-purpose bumpers
  • burly exhaust
  • aftermarket options/offerings (Jeep)
  • sport mode (love this on my Grand Cherokee)
  • two-tone hardtops

Dislikes:
  • fender flares that are too large (Bronco)
  • too much plastic in the cockpit (Bronco, Jeep)
  • stick shifts with minimal throw (Bronco, Jeep)
  • not enough optionality when it comes to a manual transmission (Bronco, Jeep)
  • US Defenders ('94' - '97) drive like your in a tin can, sort of like a Toyota.
  • Any offroad vehicle that has less than 6 cylinders
  • Turning radius of the Land Rovers are too wide (that may have changed but you could barely turn a normal corner in a Disco)
  • Gear shifts like that of the updated Defender that are in awkward locations. It looks like the Defender shift is in the way of the dash controls. Keep in mind I've never been in one. They just look like they're in the way. Just keep them on the console...
  • Side hinge tailgates
  • Rim offerings that are too large
  • Partially removable tops (Grenadier)
Just a note as someone pointed it out on another post because I chuckled not thinking about it myself. An EV has no exhaust so when stating burly exhaust under likes are you thinking piped in noise.
I forgot minimum lift on my list. Agree 33” with a 1-1/2-2” lift like the Bronco would be great.
 
Like…
Lots of color options like Jeep, but do more daring colors than Jeep,
Two tone options
Steel or steel look wheels
Good factory tire options.
Hose out interiors (this can even be done with modern carpet and upholstery)
Easy to use top
Linex tub from the factory
Factory curated accessories including aftermarket that can be factory installed and rolled into the purchase
Sky one touch Jeep top


Don’t like
Unreliability (unhem…Land Rover)
Open differentials (I know this won’t exactly apply with an EV)
Crossovers masquerading as off-road capable
Ground clearance below 9”
Side swing tailgates
Second row windows that don’t roll down all the way
 
Like…
Lots of color options like Jeep, but do more daring colors than Jeep,
Two tone options
Steel or steel look wheels
Good factory tire options.
Hose out interiors (this can even be done with modern carpet and upholstery)
Easy to use top
Linex tub from the factory
Factory curated accessories including aftermarket that can be factory installed and rolled into the purchase
Sky one touch Jeep top


Don’t like
Unreliability (unhem…Land Rover)
Open differentials (I know this won’t exactly apply with an EV)
Crossovers masquerading as off-road capable
Ground clearance below 9”
Side swing tailgates
Second row windows that don’t roll down all the way
Maybe they can create a modern style sliding rear window like the Scout Travelall’s used. Could be interesting
 
Likes
- Storage capacity - Not only Cargo Volume but stronger components and drive train usually translate to good weight as well as towing capabilities.

- 'Solid' appearance - typically not covered in plastic and looking like it'll blow away in the wind.

- Durable interior components - With taking the top off or getting the interior muddy it makes sense that the internal components are durable and not likely to break, but also from a different aspect....kids are dirty and rough, I like that it will stand up to my kids and not break

- Durable - since the stresses of off road are more than on road typically suspensions and drive train components are built with a higher stress tolerance which makes them more reliable...which I like.




Dislike:
- Everyday Driving experience: I find that due to the suspensions / drive train / steering components being geared for off roading the turning radius is affected making a vehicle that isn't a Lincon Navigator feel like one.

- Highway driving experience: my experience is from Jeep Wranglers, highway driving is fairly miserable. My father loved his jeeps and always got a soft top. But on the highways it is loud and it gets tossed from side to side constantly. It is exhausting to drive on the highways.

- Inefficiency: this mostly has to do with aerodynamics and exposed tires but also has to do with the types of tires...very loud and inefficient. (i know they are some of the most important things off road, but it affects efficiency...and that's the aspect I'm not fond of)

- Very vertical dashboards: Why does every off road vehicle have a dashboard that is straight up and down? My most first hand experience is with my father's Wrangler. The screen is stuck onto the dash that has no curve to it so it almost feels like it is pointing away. Why can't an "off road" vehicle have depth to the dashboard?
 
Other off-road vehicles are typically horrible daily drivers.

I am only going to own 1 vehicle, and I need it to be comfortable. It'd be awesome to see some luxury interior options.

I like off-roaders because I can take the doors and roof off when the weather is nice.

I also love the retro style of the new 2-door bronco.
 
Likes: reliability, smooth supple suspension with plenty of articulation and down travel. 33” tires as minimum OEM with ability to fit 34-35’s stock. Flat cargo floor with ability to remove 2nd and 3rd row, relatively easy trail repairs (like tie rods,…), No glass roof, ability to easily use aftermarket roof racks (Rhino, Yakima, Thule, prinsu,…), split rear gate (like 200 series Land Cruiser), and reliability.

Dislikes, rims >18”, air suspension, glass roof, proprietary roof crossbars, everything on the touch screen (tesla), not enough interior lighting (tesla), retracting door handles, electric presenting door handles, frameless windows, “off road” crossovers (Jeep, rover), almost everything on the new grandcherokee and grand wagoner (man is that a swing and a miss…)

The more I think about it, benchmark an 80 and 200 series Land Cruiser and go from there.
 
Last edited:
Love - ability to drive it to the trails, explore the trails, then drive it home.
  • Believe this to be one of the bigger up hill challenges (pun intended) facing the EV trail world. Overcome it and you will have a great selling point.
 
I’ve spent a good amount of drive time with the new Wrangler and Defender.
Still haven’t the opportunity to test drive the new Bronco as of yet.

Likes:
The seating position of the Land Rover,
(I really do enjoy Land Rover’s “command view” seating where you able to sit up high and have a full view of the road.
The materials in the Land Rover
(not leather lined but not going to give you a bruise or scratch from hitting it the wrong way)
The Wrangler and Defenders stock rim and tire choices.
The color palette from Land Rover, Jeep, and Ford. I think it’s key to have a lot of colors available for a “lifestyle” vehicle. Tired of the different shades or Black and Grey.
The Wrangler’s U Connect Infotainment system. (Very intuitive)
The heft of the Defenders doors versus the Wrangler and Bronco. (I understand that this is because the doors of the latter come off, but after being in and witnessing some intense car accidents; I always think about being T Boned when I purchase a vehicle.
The LED lighting on all three vehicles. It gives them all their own identity.
How the Defender has an option for a folding canvas roof.
The table in the back of the Bronco that can be used for work or simply as a tray to eat.
The classic spare wheel covers that Ford and Jeep offer.
The sound system in both the Defender and the Bronco.

Dislikes:
How cramped the Wrangler feels inside versus the Bronco and the Defender
The wheel choices for the Bronco
How driving the Wrangler on the highway seems like a punishment
The highbeams on the Wrangler with the LED lighting
The gear shifter in the Defender
and last but not least good ol death wobble.
 
-Bronco grab bars are useless. Posted this the other day. Need to be mounted up on the A pillar

-Bronco doesn’t have a flat load rear floor. NEEDS to be flat-especially with a tailgate at the rear

-windshield needs a bit more rake or go gorilla glass with exterior clear film.

-not having a white, mounded removable roof
Just as an FYI, my wife loves those grab bars, both when she drives and when she passengers, as the stock height of the Sasquatch package means she'd need lower handles than on the A pillar.

We also use them for when off-road for spotting, leaning forward.

Perhaps relocation plates for those that are taller and would like them on the A pillar would work. I'm taller, and don't need anything more than the steering wheel to get myself in the seat.

I agree with your other gripes.
 
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Just as an FYI, my wife loves those grab bars, both when she drives and when she passengers, as the stock height of the Sasquatch package means she'd need lower handles than on the A pillar.

We also use them for when off-road for spotting, leaning forward.

Perhaps relocation plates for those that are taller and would like them on the A pillar would work. I'm taller, and don't need anything more than the steering wheel to get myself in the seat.

I agree with your other gripes.
Steering wheel works but I always worry over time what it’s doing to the wheel pulling up a couple hundred pounds. I would agree on a squatch the dash grabs are probably better. I like your suggestion of relocatable. That would be a great feature to consider
 
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Referencing my 100 series, LX470

Likes:
- Reliability
- AHC and good stock height
- minimal plastic trim and molding
- split tailgate
- roof vents for rear AC
- 16” wheels

Dislikes:
- Poor use of space with 3rd row seat design
- high COG makes it so sensitive to rutting and changing cross slope on the road. Tough to nail this with a good off-road height
- rear seat position in relation to the door frame makes it the most difficult vehicle I’ve ever owned to use a rear facing converter car seat in and actually be able to get my son in to and out of. This is a huge issue for me.


Referencing my previous Grand Cherokee WK2

Likes:
- almost everything

Dislikes:
- needs more ground clearance
- the BMW style shifter that doesn’t actually shift, just pops forward and back
- wish just the glass opened on the tailgate


Wife’s Yukon, 2015 model. Not truly and off-roader but it is a true 4x4 suv so I think it applies

Likes:
- again almost everything interior wise ergonomically
- column gear shifter
- captains chars, not really applicable to a more compact 2 row suv
- tailgate glass opening

Dislikes:
- head room feels a little low, but I like a high driving position also
- too much plastic aerodynamic garbage up front
- low ride height
- High cargo floor height
 
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As far as likes go, I love that certain offroaders have the ability to be completely open, it makes going to the beach or campground awesome.
 
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Likes: Removable top, dual capability (city or off-road), more upright seating position, easy to clean interior, drivetrain options: Tesla’s different drivetrain options are NOT a bad thing. People will love the Scout, but if given a cost-conscious option, they might be just as happy with cheaper 2wd option vs 4wd.

Dislikes: “trying too hard” to capture the off-road zeitgeist with overkill dash design, interface, layout, etc., And finally, a “design by committee” because you’re trying to please everyone. You’ll just end up with a Pontiac Aztec. Yuk.
 
Two other things I thought of.:

Asymmetry. The way the back window and door of the LR Discovery has that asymmetric look is so awkward. Thankfully I think they're the only ones that do that....

Windows that look disproportionately small, like those of the Hummer H2
 
I think removable top & doors are a must.

Ability to carry a full size spare is a must. I actually like side hinge gates on Jeeps because you don't need a separate tire carrier; there are also cool mounting solutions with this design & even things like fold down tables. With that said, my favorite rear SUV design is a split gate with a small bottom tailgate and top liftgate, but that complicates the spare tire issue...tradeoffs.

I LOVE what the Ram EV concept showed regarding seat/cargo tracks. Incredible idea for flexibility & possibly modular storage, tie down, and potential for other functions/applications.

Design for aftermarket accessories from day 1. Replacement bumpers, sliders/steps, lift kits, roof racks, etc. Part of what people love about Jeeps, myself included, is the ability to customize them for personal tastes and uses.
 
As many have said:
- If the Scout EV is truthfully wanting to be rugged and off-road capable, smaller diameter wheel options (16”?) with larger tires and lifts are best. More sidewall is better for airing down for traction without burping a tire or dinging a rim.
- Onboard air compressor option would be a good choice (but available aftermarket).
- 12v Power connections at the front of the Scout (winch) and in the frunk for added accessories. Being an EV, this would ease aftermarket accessories, which ultimately makes or breaks an off roader.
- A spacious, locking frunk to hide your valuables (release inside has to be able to be locked if top is off).
- Being and EV, hopefully a removable top and real roll cage (even if optional) would be possible (never have seen a convertible EV).
- Locking differentials if not a 4 motor vehicle.

*Most importantly, see the following:
- Vibration, dust, and water intrusion rated components. Test everything for taking abuse. Electronics fail when off road. When the whole vehicle is electronic, you get stranded. Can the EV motors cross a stream? What happens to the internal components if they get dirty or water in them?
- ABS systems can’t handle loose surfaces and will bury you in snow or sand. Will the NTHSB let you have a sand/snow driving mode without ABS?
- Readily available parts for repairs are a must. We break things and can’t have anything that isn’t repairable. I know EVs have parts that are not easily serviced (E.G. high voltage), but everything needs to be repairable that can be.
- Consider including satellite messaging/SOS subscription (think SPOT and Garmin inReach), if you are going to include a roadside SOS system, like many cars. You could work out a deal and include a few years and offer an ongoing subscription renewal.