Please explain why you think they won't be needed.
I am very interested in this point of view.
Lessons Learned on Range Anxiety
- Thread starter Harris005
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I am very interested in this point of view.
Let me preface that this is from my own use experience and initial concerns. In 2019 I drove a Tesla Model 3 and was blown away. But, I still had all the common concerns that many people have about EVs. So, I leased it just in case I didn't like it, or that I found life with EV to be too difficult. It proved to be so much better than ICE. I have a level 2 charger at work and one at home. I almost exclusively charge at work as my wife uses the home charger for her PHEV. The only repairs that were needed were a leaking taillight and cracked glass. The taillight was done in my driveway, the glass at a local Cadillac dealer that is set up as a Tesla collision center. Other than that everything was updated over the air. I kept it until the lease expired and then bought a 2022 Model 3 as I was fully comfortable with EVs daily and traveling. I live on the east coast so the charging infrastructure is pretty good. That said, if a destination is over 5 hours away I usually fly. I used the car several times for trips under or right at 5 hours. No issues whatsoever and the time it took was nearly the same as with an ICE vehicle. The big difference is that you do not "fill up" at superchargers. You only get what you need to get back on the road to the next charge stop or your destination, which ever comes first. Then Elon went off the rails and the prices of Teslas plummeted. I wanted off the crazy train and am fortunate enough to not be stuck with something I do not like. I sold the Tesla to CarMax and bought a 2023 BMW iX. Way better than anything Tesla has in so many ways. But, that is another story. Long story short, if you can charge at home or work, range anxiety goes away very quickly. I feel based on my own experience and questions about range anxiety that many people that choose the Harvester are only doing it because of fear of the unknown. I completely understand that! The Harvester will be a great gateway drug to full EV. My wife has a PHEV because of range anxiety. She only gets gas about once every 6-8 weeks. She hates gas stations. She has realized that an EV would actually suit her just fine. I just think that many of those folks will say, "Wow, I didn't realize my own driving habits. This EV thing is great! I wish I wasn't dragging around the extra weight and complexity of the Harvester. I just rarely or never need it. Oh, and I also wish that I didn't have to service the Harvester because the rest of the Scout has only needed washer fluid in the last year or so." Or something like that.
Now some people have bladders like a camel's hump and want to drive 18 hours straight, uphill, towing a toy hauler to go overlanding for 12 days in No Man's Land State Park. That percentage of folks need a vehicle that does not exist, but the Harvester option is the best thing they can get in the near future. I know that is an exaggeration. A full EV is probably not the best vehicle for that demographic. I hope the explanation makes sense.
Similarly to @LastDayScout, I'm only speaking from my own experiences:
We've driven hybrids since the first generation of Prius (2002). We loved them, but always wanted an all-electric. At the time they came out, we couldn't even dream of affording a brand-T (and I thought the crazy train picked up the dude way back in the early 2000s). We have always gone camping and done road trips, and a hybrid was fantastic for that--compared with regular ICEs. We live 150 miles one-way from my wife's office that she has to travel to about once a month, so when the Leaf came out, it wasn't an option. And we couldn't afford it anyway.
When we could finally afford an electric vehicle we knew we didn't want a third vehicle, so we looked and looked for a road-trip worthy electric vehicle. For us a road trip is long enough that returning on the same day is either a stretch or just not possible--that's at least 450 miles or so. Our usual road trip is from northern Arizona to Pasadena, CA--I have family in the area and I have a work meeting there at least a few times a year. We needed to be able to bridge the 160 mile gap from the Flagstaff, AZ area to Kingman, AZ, which is where the only fast charger was when we were looking for charging. Knowing that our efficiency would be lower on the freeway, and knowing that we would unlikely charge to 100% on the way home, we needed something that could leave us with margin when driving those 160 miles, so we decided that the vehicle had to have a realistic range of at least 180 miles when starting at 80%. That's a 225 miles range on a full battery. Taking into account some range anxiety, we decided a 300 mile EPA range was what we wanted.
We also wanted an AWD because of the snow and ice we get here in the winter.
We got the Mustang Mach-E California Route 1 AWD trim with the extended range battery because it had 312 miles range according to the EPA.
We didn't need to worry.
We usually skip the Kingman stop in favor of the Needles stop (220 miles). And we have margin to make it to Najah's Desert Oasis (255 miles), but that's four hours away, which is too long to sit in a car.
We've found that 2 to 3 hours is our maximum driving time and it's not the vehicle that limits us, it's ourselves. We get tired, we get cranky, we need to go to the restroom. We need to eat. We need to walk around.
We took a road trip to Arkansas for the eclipse this past spring and decided to take the Tacoma because the Mustang isn't a great camping vehicle. We were cramped, miserable, and hated stopping at gas stations, especially the ones that were crowded because of the eclipse--most of the charging stations we saw were empty while the gas stations were full. We brought a 5-gallon jerry can because we were going deep into the Ozarks and weren't sure we would have the range to make it back out--that stupid can of gas is still sitting somewhere unused. We started looking for replacement vehicles on the trip home. The R1T and Lightning were the only options and both were great options. The R1T is still out of our price range, and we got a great deal on the Lightning.
Towing was a consideration when we got the Lightning. When towing with the Tacoma, we usually got around 8 miles/gallon and that was at 55-60 mph--we already had to stop on the way to Kingman (160 miles away) because of the poor range. We were quite familiar with range anxiety while towing, but it's now a thing of the past because we have an electric vehicle.
The last tow trip we took with the Tacoma, we encountered two gas stations in a row that were over-full with angry, impatient holiday travelers and with inoperable pumps or empty tanks. We arrived at the third gas station on fumes after having driven 20 miles at 40 mph on the interstate.
With the Lightning's 320 mile range EPA estimate (which I can regularly get while on the interstate). From experience, I know I can get >180 miles while towing a trailer on the interstate. That's better than I was getting in the Tacoma or its bigger brother the Tundra while towing. An EV with 350 miles range is a fantastic option and depending on the context when it comes out, the Tera may replace our Lightning. But we'll see.
With an all-electric (no Harvester and no other hybrid):
I never have to go to a gas station (saves me hours and hours a year).
I know I can get the range my eyes, back, and bladder are comfortable with, even while towing.
I know I only need to do EV maintenance rather than both EV and ICE maintenance.
I know most of my driving is local or road trips without towing.
I know if I really need a bigger truck to tow something that I can't tow with the Lightning I can rent something for the few days I need it.
I know it's much, much cheaper for me to own the Lightning than to own a similarly-capable ICE truck or hybrid.
I love these stories. As mentioned I’m new to EV but have had a love for Scout for almost 36 years. I am going to convert from my hybrid Accord (my transition vehicle) to the traveler (98% sure I’ll go full EV). That said I had a crushing moment last night!
I have 3/4 acre of ground to mow with my rider so unfortunately I’m still going to have to visit a gas station periodically.
DAMN IT!!!!
I have 3/4 acre of ground to mow with my rider so unfortunately I’m still going to have to visit a gas station periodically.
DAMN IT!!!!
Not so fast my friend. There are other brands available, but this one puts bread on my table. Coming soon.... https://electrek.co/2024/10/19/e-quipment-highlight-kubota-ze-zero-turn-electric-lawn-mowers/
Over the last 7500 miles, our PHEV has managed an avg of 245mpg. That means we’ve filled the ~11gal tank on it ~3 times since…. April? Or may?
I’ve got an acre to mow. And based on the above, I legitimately put more fuel through the mower this summer than my PHEV
.
I knew you’d jump on that comment
. I’m just not in the market yet to spend money on a new mower. Mine is only 6 years old with like 200 hours of run time.
Not trying to take bread from your table... I have the EGO Power+ T6 Lawn Tractor, mostly because it uses the same batteries that power my snow blower. Have a manual bucket and small spreader on it.
I saw an EGO zero turn mower at Lowe's this past weekend. It looked pretty good!
I’ve been getting around 590-620 miles of range on the Accord. I’m lucky if I do 150 miles a week so generally speaking I’m about 4-5 weeks between fill ups and at a whopping 12 gallon tank I’m in and out quickly. Fortunately I have two cans for the mower so I probably only need to stop 4 times a year after I have the EV TravelerOver the last 7500 miles, our PHEV has managed an avg of 245mpg. That means we’ve filled the ~11gal tank on it ~3 times since…. April? Or may?
I’ve got an acre to mow. And based on the above, I legitimately put more fuel through the mower this summer than my PHEV
I have a diesel tractor and still have to go to the dead dinosaur juice dispenser a couple times a year. Sigh.
What’s the run time on the batteries. I’m waiting for @LastDayScout to give me a screaming deal from his lot when he gets his Terra and we can meet midway between PA and SC to swap
I can get an acre or so mowed with 25-30% remaining. I have a really rocky plot and it's not grass; it's thistles, weeds, bushes, etc., and requires several passes.What’s the run time on the batteries. I’m waiting for @LastDayScout to give me a screaming deal from his lot when he gets his Terra and we can meet midway between PA and SC to swap
Just a small one, but as soon as I bought an electric mower, I bought everything else for the same battery pack - hedge trimmer, weed whacker, blower... So much better than anything corded or ICE! Love the electric around the house for yard work, and my mower now has lights. So much quieter!
Very slowly. But, yes, probably by the time I need to rebuild the engine on this I can get an electric tractor for cheaper.
I expect that if it's not happening already, the smart (see what I did there?) gas station owners will begin installing electric charging stations, probably not removing pumps yet to make way for electric, but at a minimum, putting one or two charging stations at parking spots on the side of the building or something.
This gets a 100 and a
. Thank you. I completely agree.
Yes, this is already a thing, and OTHER smart businesses are also installing chargers to draw people to other parts of their non-gas businesses.
Uptake seems to be a little slower with the bigger O&G gas stations on the East Coast, although Shell claims to have 4000 US charging locations, and they are also catering to Fleets: https://www.shell.us/business/mobil...pc3QvZWxlY3RyaWMtdmVoaWNsZS1jaGFyZ2luZy5odG1s
My favorite convenience store location to charge (that has gas) when road tripping down I-95 is probably a WaWa, b/c I am usually in need of ice, food, snacks and a bathroom by the time I get to WaWa country. WaWa also has the most kick-ass pre-made breakfast sandwiches on a croissant. Apparently there are now 175 WaWa locations with DCFC's. https://www.wawa.com/fuel-ev-charging
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