Scout Should Offer a Conventional Hybrid Motor Option

[PVanderVossen]

Interesting to see the news out of Dodge on the new Ramcharger for 2025. Full electric propulsion with an ICE engine (Pentastar V6) to serve as an on-platform 130 kw generator to charge the 92 kw battery when it drops below a certain level. Of course, a Ram 1500 is a different beast than I think what I think a new Scout would go for, but one of the more interesting innovations on the PHEV/hybrid/EV issue. I would personally be happy with a full EV option (I have my '74 to scratch the ICE itch), but if half of what dodge is claiming is reality then this could be a cool alternative.

(more details: https://www.ramtrucks.com/revolution/ram-1500-ramcharger.html)

Indeed RAM (not Dodge any longer) is doing something interesting that I see as another transitional solution from their legacy platform. In terms of performance, range, and towing ability, it delivers what many truck customers are asking for:

>600 HP and lb-ft of torque, 0-60 in 4.4 seconds, tow up to 14,000 lbs, 2,625 lbs payload, > 700-mile range, fill up a 27-gallon gas tank in minutes, or fast charge in a few more minutes....

...but it does all of that by not worrying at all about efficiency. Their bet is that the average Ramcharger customer won't care about efficiency.

 

[R1TVT]

Looks like you get to hit the gas pump and the charging station. I see this being an excellent choice for those that will have a lot of anxiety around going straight to a pure EV. You now have both an ICE and an EV "environment" on a single platform. That is essentially double the maintenance / parts / service potentially. Since it is integrated, I'm guessing you will also loose all the space that an EV could provide on a pure platform.

 

[smgarland]

Most of the argument here seems to be people that will be driving their Scout mostly on street and arguing over what type of charging will be used. What about the real Overlanding people like me who will do serious Overlanding and 4x4 trips deep into the backwoods with my Overlanding club where we go off the grid completely for up to a week. I currently Overland in my Scout and love it and can go far due to carrying additional fuel. I also have a new Bronco and Overland for up to a week in that at well. If the new Scout is electric only, you can forget any serious Offroader/Overlanders buying the Scout except to be used as a mall crawler or occasional dirt road vehicle like the Rivian. I think at least a hybrid option would be good for the huge community of guys like me that do real Overlanding that would not consider an all electric vehicle due to it's limited range. When Scout first announced they talked about staying true to their heritage, etc. etc. Not sure how doing an all electric, limited range offroad vehicle lines up with the rough and rugged Scout image. I will buy one for sure if I can figure out how to do real offroading where you I can really get off the grid. Just hoping the new Scout doesn't turn into a bougie mall crawler like the Rivian. Never seen one of those lined up to climb a hill at King of the Hammers.

Just my 2 cents from a guy hoping the new Scout will be an authentic offroading vehicle capable of really competing with Jeep and Ford offroad. I don't consider the Rivian in the same class as Jeep and Ford and don't see how any all EV vehicle can. Maybe theres a way, I just don't see how.

 

[J Alynn]

Most of the argument here seems to be people that will be driving their Scout mostly on street and arguing over what type of charging will be used. What about the real Overlanding people like me who will do serious Overlanding and 4x4 trips deep into the backwoods with my Overlanding club where we go off the grid completely for up to a week. I currently Overland in my Scout and love it and can go far due to carrying additional fuel. I also have a new Bronco and Overland for up to a week in that at well. If the new Scout is electric only, you can forget any serious Offroader/Overlanders buying the Scout except to be used as a mall crawler or occasional dirt road vehicle like the Rivian. I think at least a hybrid option would be good for the huge community of guys like me that do real Overlanding that would not consider an all electric vehicle due to it's limited range. When Scout first announced they talked about staying true to their heritage, etc. etc. Not sure how doing an all electric, limited range offroad vehicle lines up with the rough and rugged Scout image. I will buy one for sure if I can figure out how to do real offroading where you I can really get off the grid. Just hoping the new Scout doesn't turn into a bougie mall crawler like the Rivian. Never seen one of those lined up to climb a hill at King of the Hammers.

Just my 2 cents from a guy hoping the new Scout will be an authentic offroading vehicle capable of really competing with Jeep and Ford offroad. I don't consider the Rivian in the same class as Jeep and Ford and don't see how any all EV vehicle can. Maybe theres a way, I just don't see how.

As the old timers on this forum keep saying-until you spend time in an EV it’s hard to decide how it will or won’t perform. This subject/topic seems to come up every few weeks or a month when new members jump on and refuse to accept electric because they haven’t spent time driving an EV or spent time learning about it. Ultimately the Scout may not end up being ideal for hard core overlanders who spend weeks off the grid. I long for a new Scout that is vintage in style with all new safety and modern conveniences-I know it isn’t happening so I’ve accepted to stay tuned with high hopes for an amazing new, innovative lifestyle vehicle. The original Scout was an innovator. It served as a work horse and a “to the city” driver vehicle which allowed it to appeal to ALL buyers. As I’ve said before and will continue to say whether upsetting or not-SM can’t succeed as a revived start-up if it only builds vehicles to appeal to the 6% hardcore drivers. I wish the top car companies all still made convertibles because I love them but they all realized it’s a niche vehicle and makes little profit based on the number of sales so most, other than the luxury divisions have stopped offering them. Most of us wish SUV would be a two-door but SM has clarified their stance so until battery size and range improves we will patiently wait.
I want a solid Scout (like my first Scout- minus the rust). The engine ran forever and while the new one will be EV (and I too am still skeptical) but I don’t want to pay $4-5K more for all the core “stuff” needed to satisfy the 6% either when I don’t plan to do much more than gravel roads-I didn’t off-road in my first Scout and don’t plan to do so now either. We all know, (if we are honest) that the large majority of new Bronco owners aren’t going any more rugged than a gravel driveway at their own or their friend’s weekend cabin. I keep scratching my head when I hear these comments like I have multiple rock crawler/overland rigs already and they are very capable but now I need to tell SM or Toyota or RR/LR to NOT make all electric and change their business plan and maybe redesign the vehicles not to mention the factories which are underway. I had a Scout-it rusted to its death. I technically own a Bronco (daughter’s buying it we are just financing) I’ve chosen to hold out on another lifestyle vehicle purchase until I know if I truly want it but in the mean time I occasionally steal my daughter’s Bronco and enjoy every minute of it. I’m glad those who enjoy it and can afford overlanding do so but if EV isn’t your cup of tea then just enjoy your vintage Scout or what you have and move on. Many others wish we could have a vintage Scout but see the future of EV’s and look forward to this new SM driving experience.
I’m hoping @R1TVT jumps in here as the “resident EV expert” and Rivian owner and sheds additional light on his Rivian since he does more the commute back and forth to the mall.
The forum is an opportunity to go along for the ride and offer suggestions to SM’s and their various teams but the constant fear of overlanding/ rock crawling in an EV either needs accepted or folks need to move on. Jeep is now offering EV alternatives and RR/LR are working on vehicles so some other off-road capable manufacturers must believe it is a viable option. In two years battery range may be 500 miles and the size of a couple briefcases. I keep being reminded by others on here that are smarter than me that batteries use power only when needing too so instead of idling for half the day wasting fuel you are only using it when moving. Better instant torque, etc…
Maybe someone smarter than me ( @R1TVT or maybe one of SM’s team) can provide a breakdown of all the benefits EV’s offer in one central place here as a resource so we can spend time being excited about the new Scout’s potential rather than trying to re-strategize a multi-million/billion dollar company.
Anyway- I'm off my soap box for now and will wait another month until I stand up on it again.
Hope this community stays onboard and keeps offering great ideas and solutions so SM’s team can build us the best SUV possible. Anxious for more design updates.

 

[lefty]

As the old timers on this forum keep saying-until you spend time in an EV it’s hard to decide how it will or won’t perform. This subject/topic seems to come up every few weeks or a month when new members jump on and refuse to accept electric because they haven’t spent time driving an EV or spent time learning about it. Ultimately the Scout may not end up being ideal for hard core overlanders who spend weeks off the grid. I long for a new Scout that is vintage in style with all new safety and modern conveniences-I know it isn’t happening so I’ve accepted to stay tuned with high hopes for an amazing new, innovative lifestyle vehicle. The original Scout was an innovator. It served as a work horse and a “to the city” driver vehicle which allowed it to appeal to ALL buyers. As I’ve said before and will continue to say whether upsetting or not-SM can’t succeed as a revived start-up if it only builds vehicles to appeal to the 6% hardcore drivers. I wish the top car companies all still made convertibles because I love them but they all realized it’s a niche vehicle and makes little profit based on the number of sales so most, other than the luxury divisions have stopped offering them. Most of us wish SUV would be a two-door but SM has clarified their stance so until battery size and range improves we will patiently wait.
I want a solid Scout (like my first Scout- minus the rust). The engine ran forever and while the new one will be EV (and I too am still skeptical) but I don’t want to pay $4-5K more for all the core “stuff” needed to satisfy the 6% either when I don’t plan to do much more than gravel roads-I didn’t off-road in my first Scout and don’t plan to do so now either. We all know, (if we are honest) that the large majority of new Bronco owners aren’t going any more rugged than a gravel driveway at their own or their friend’s weekend cabin. I keep scratching my head when I hear these comments like I have multiple rock crawler/overland rigs already and they are very capable but now I need to tell SM or Toyota or RR/LR to NOT make all electric and change their business plan and maybe redesign the vehicles not to mention the factories which are underway. I had a Scout-it rusted to its death. I technically own a Bronco (daughter’s buying it we are just financing) I’ve chosen to hold out on another lifestyle vehicle purchase until I know if I truly want it but in the mean time I occasionally steal my daughter’s Bronco and enjoy every minute of it. I’m glad those who enjoy it and can afford overlanding do so but if EV isn’t your cup of tea then just enjoy your vintage Scout or what you have and move on. Many others wish we could have a vintage Scout but see the future of EV’s and look forward to this new SM driving experience.
I’m hoping @R1TVT jumps in here as the “resident EV expert” and Rivian owner and sheds additional light on his Rivian since he does more the commute back and forth to the mall.
The forum is an opportunity to go along for the ride and offer suggestions to SM’s and their various teams but the constant fear of overlanding/ rock crawling in an EV either needs accepted or folks need to move on. Jeep is now offering EV alternatives and RR/LR are working on vehicles so some other off-road capable manufacturers must believe it is a viable option. In two years battery range may be 500 miles and the size of a couple briefcases. I keep being reminded by others on here that are smarter than me that batteries use power only when needing too so instead of idling for half the day wasting fuel you are only using it when moving. Better instant torque, etc…
Maybe someone smarter than me ( @R1TVT or maybe one of SM’s team) can provide a breakdown of all the benefits EV’s offer in one central place here as a resource so we can spend time being excited about the new Scout’s potential rather than trying to re-strategize a multi-million/billion dollar company.
Anyway- I'm off my soap box for now and will wait another month until I stand up on it again.
Hope this community stays onboard and keeps offering great ideas and solutions so SM’s team can build us the best SUV possible. Anxious for more design updates.

As usual, well stated, J Alynn. As we've discussed previously, the Scout will be far from a pure offroad vehicle. I imagine it will come close to the Bronco and will be quite capable but will not be the offroad fantasy some believe/hope it will be. It sure ain't gonna be a 2-door either and it's not pragmatic to assume that a company new to the market will make a vehicle that will be overly focused on offroad prowess. People need to remember that this is about an addressable market and economics. To your point, J Alynn, people need to move on from this offroad-capable super vehicle.

The new Dodge concept with their "generator" is awesome, solves for much of this offroad range anxiety, and I'm sure will capture a decent share of the market - especially the offroad enthusiasts. However this is not part of SM's strategy.

Now I am going to do something I cannot stand, which is slightly shift the topic of this thread and rant about the "suggestion" part of this forum...

<rant>
On a related, but somewhat divergent topic, I wish Scout Motors would be more forceful on this forum with an opinion. Perhaps it's time Chris Benjamin weigh in with his opinion, thoughts, outlook, etc.. Unless I missed it, I don't think I've seen any contribution from him on this forum. I feel like we're left to pontificate and bicker about our opinions and it just keeps going around and around. You can't build a manufacturing facility without clearly knowing what you're building. If I were Chris and the plans were still fluid I'd sure be interested in engaging with us, the enthusiasts. While just my subjective opinion, I think Scout's plans are mostly baked as this point. I understand that they can't disclose what's happening but it would be helpful to have us all steered in a direction where we can be productive; accessories, colors, software options, etc.
</rant>

 

[R1TVT]

Anytime I read generalizations, I am very skeptical. The R1T is my first EV (coming from a Sliverado 2500HD) so I am def no expert! But when you have to dig your own parking spot by hand at the trail head, you know you are deep into the backcountry. I live in the Northeast though, and my version of "overlanding" is mostly limited to using my vehicle to reach the backcountry, park, then do something like backcountry ski, MTB or fish. I don't take my truck off-road to go rock-crawling (just for the sake of taking it off-road). I have nothing against that, I'm just generally using the truck to get me somewhere to do something human-powered. This is my "mall", and my version of mall-crawling. Instead of people everywhere, my mall is full of trees and snow and mountains - far, far away from any urban center and deep into a Nat'l Forest. If you plan to drive around in the backcountry "off-grid" for a week, then ICE and jerry jugs are probably still the best solution for that edge case. Are there EV "jerry jug" solutions for that now? YES, but they are expensive (as they are relatively nascent and niche tech solutions with a very small market to cater to). Here's one example:

 

[J Alynn]

Anytime I read generalizations, I am very skeptical. The R1T is my first EV (coming from a Sliverado 2500HD) so I am def no expert! But when you have to dig your own parking spot by hand at the trail head, you know you are deep into the backcountry. I live in the Northeast though, and my version of "overlanding" is mostly limited to using my vehicle to reach the backcountry, park, then do something like backcountry ski, MTB or fish. I don't take my truck off-road to go rock-crawling (just for the sake of taking it off-road). I have nothing against that, I'm just generally using the truck to get me somewhere to do something human-powered. This is my "mall", and my version of mall-crawling. Instead of people everywhere, my mall is full of trees and snow and mountains - far, far away from any urban center and deep into a Nat'l Forest. If you plan to drive around in the backcountry "off-grid" for a week, then ICE and jerry jugs are probably still the best solution for that edge case. Are there EV "jerry jug" solutions for that now? YES, but they are expensive (as they are relatively nascent and niche tech solutions with a very small market to cater to). Here's one example:

View attachment 2026

Thank you sir. Always appreciate your insight as I do gain a lot by your added content. I started on this forum because of my interests in design but I’ve gained a lot of knowledge and resources about EV’s by the info you provide (as well as several other regulars on here). Thanks for chiming in and hope I didn’t put you on the spot

 

[Scout800a]

I would propose that an EV, done correctly, can actually go further back country and overland further than ICE.

I have taken my last Scout II across the Bonneville Salt Flats and thru many Montana fire roads. Most limiting factor was how far before I had to dump in the "get home" gas can and make a bee line to civilization. Scouts have never been known to be fuel efficient and actually quit thirsty. At least that last one was better than most with a honest 16+mpg on the highway. My current beast has some unresolved issue and 99% of the time is <9mpg.

Now to my EV point - it can be charged from where ever you can get electricity, vs the gasoline/Diesel being only as much as you can carry. So where you can load a couple more Jerry cans and go further back country, at some point you still have to refill them and the vehicle. But the EV can be recharged by what ever source of electricity (usually AC of enough voltage). A generator (back to the gas problem, but at least familiar foe) or solar panels, or even one of those new battery "generators" can recharge much like dumping a Jerry can in could.

I hazard you could go as far as you wished a long as you had the time. Spend less of the trip focused solely on driving and spend some of it on fishing, hiking, biking (MTB). Heck, could even be just the BBQ and time with friends to compare stories from the trail before moving on. Point is unlike ICE where you have to either have refueling depot or stops in civilization to refuel, with the EV and the correct setup you can keep going as far as your food, water, or desire for time away extends.

And for that last few that insist on the drive is the point I have this idea - can we get a REX module designed for the Scout? Most overlanding is not full speed attack runs, so REX doesn't need to be full power capable. As long as it can recharge the battery enough to back and/or allow vehicle to maintain a certain level of roadability. I'm thinking along the lines of BMW i3 with optional REX. But for Scout maybe make it dockable - have it slide into a bay when needed, remove it when not needed. Maybe second use for people wanting back up options in case of natural disaster?

Jason

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

<rant>
On a related, but somewhat divergent topic, I wish Scout Motors would be more forceful on this forum with an opinion. Perhaps it's time Chris Benjamin weigh in with his opinion, thoughts, outlook, etc.. Unless I missed it, I don't think I've seen any contribution from him on this forum. I feel like we're left to pontificate and bicker about our opinions and it just keeps going around and around. You can't build a manufacturing facility without clearly knowing what you're building. If I were Chris and the plans were still fluid I'd sure be interested in engaging with us, the enthusiasts. While just my subjective opinion, I think Scout's plans are mostly baked as this point. I understand that they can't disclose what's happening but it would be helpful to have us all steered in a direction where we can be productive; accessories, colors, software options, etc.
</rant>

Chris Stahl and I have lots of opinions, but they are just ours and don't collectively speak for the company.

I think at a basic level, we have to build vehicles that compete with other vehicles and stand on their own merits. So, mapping out the competitive features, trim packages, and consumer wants and needs is a given when planning any vehicle. So, 90%+ of product planning is covered by what consumer expectations are for a vehicle - including the numerous suggestions in this forum. Then, the rest of it is how we might differentiate our vehicle or make it unique in the marketplace. Could be features, could be design, could be special-use, etc., etc. This forum has a lot of solid recommendations, and our teams are both reading the forums and getting tidbits from Chris and I. We just don't want to come in here at this stage and say a certain feature is coming and then have something happen between now and production where it ends up not making it on the vehicle.

Our goal is to get our teams more involved in the discussion here, but this early out, there isn't much they can confirm or deny. Numerous decisions have to be weighed against costs, wants, needs, and more, and they change daily. Chris Benjamin has a team of more than a dozen people in our design group that he manages on a daily basis. Plus, numerous projects internally with exterior mock-ups, interior mock-ups, clay models, endless CAD drawing reviews, meetings with engineering, production, and product teams, and on and on. So getting Chris Benjamin to spend time in here is honestly tough. He also wouldn't be able to say much at this point. Having personally seen where the design team is at right now, I think most people will be happy with where everything is headed. Our design teams have a huge virtual whiteboard with every single Scout advertisement ever produced. Every logo variation, every grill variation, all the old design drawings, the entire CT399 color guide, and more. They are very thorough in collecting the history, legacy, and inspiration points. They have also been very thorough in the vast number of design iterations of both the new SUV and the new pickup truck. The designs will be refined before the vehicles are shown, but it is pretty far along at this stage. I think when Chris is ready to talk about the new designs, we will create an opportunity for people here to ask questions. We also plan to do a video series that will cover some of this as well, so stay tuned.

Please keep the suggestions and ideas coming. This community platform is a unique opportunity in the automotive world to influence a future product.

Jamie

 

[J Alynn]

Chris Stahl and I have lots of opinions, but they are just ours and don't collectively speak for the company.

I think at a basic level, we have to build vehicles that compete with other vehicles and stand on their own merits. So, mapping out the competitive features, trim packages, and consumer wants and needs is a given when planning any vehicle. So, 90%+ of product planning is covered by what consumer expectations are for a vehicle - including the numerous suggestions in this forum. Then, the rest of it is how we might differentiate our vehicle or make it unique in the marketplace. Could be features, could be design, could be special-use, etc., etc. This forum has a lot of solid recommendations, and our teams are both reading the forums and getting tidbits from Chris and I. We just don't want to come in here at this stage and say a certain feature is coming and then have something happen between now and production where it ends up not making it on the vehicle.

Our goal is to get our teams more involved in the discussion here, but this early out, there isn't much they can confirm or deny. Numerous decisions have to be weighed against costs, wants, needs, and more, and they change daily. Chris Benjamin has a team of more than a dozen people in our design group that he manages on a daily basis. Plus, numerous projects internally with exterior mock-ups, interior mock-ups, clay models, endless CAD drawing reviews, meetings with engineering, production, and product teams, and on and on. So getting Chris Benjamin to spend time in here is honestly tough. He also wouldn't be able to say much at this point. Having personally seen where the design team is at right now, I think most people will be happy with where everything is headed. Our design teams have a huge virtual whiteboard with every single Scout advertisement ever produced. Every logo variation, every grill variation, all the old design drawings, the entire CT399 color guide, and more. They are very thorough in collecting the history, legacy, and inspiration points. They have also been very thorough in the vast number of design iterations of both the new SUV and the new pickup truck. The designs will be refined before the vehicles are shown, but it is pretty far along at this stage. I think when Chris is ready to talk about the new designs, we will create an opportunity for people here to ask questions. We also plan to do a video series that will cover some of this as well, so stay tuned.

Please keep the suggestions and ideas coming. This community platform is a unique opportunity in the automotive world to influence a future product.

Jamie

Need to find me an I.T. Genius to hack that virtual whiteboard