Realistic range concerns.

[Central Oregon Guy]

Last year I bought my wife a new car. It was going to be a Tesla; but we settled on a Toyota RAV4 Prime (plug in hybrid). The reason we didn’t get a full battery electric vehicle is due to the lack of charging infrastructure in Central Oregon. We often do road trips and with a battery electric vehicle would not be able to return home on the same day or continue our journey; due to a lack of charging stations. I have started to see a few new charging stations (Detroit, Oregon), but not enough yet to alleviate my range anxiety.

My primary vehicle is a Toyota 4Runner, it is rugged and reliable; but it is not electric. I use it primarily as a daily driver with weekend trips to the Wilderness for hunting trips. My last hunting trip was 120 miles one way in freezing temperatures. Depending on the availability of charging stations; I wouldn’t be able to make a return trip in a vehicle with limited range like the Polestar 2 or Nissan Leaf. Please make the Scout with a realistic range (regardless of temperature) for the people who will actually use it outside of cities.

 

[HattoriHanzoAxleshaft]

I'll go right ahead and mention the range on my 20 gallon 196 is less than 250 miles. A 300 mile range with a reasonable recharge time would fit my lifestyle, but I'm not every owner.

Is there any reason aftermarket/RV trailer mfrs can't put extended range batteries under an RV floor with a power tether connecting to the towing vehicle? It's obviously not cheap, but adding a few battery "panels" under the floorboards of the RV proper to increase the onboard kwh capacity surely wouldn't have too much of a weight penalty?

 

[Central Oregon Guy]

I'll go right ahead and mention the range on my 20 gallon 196 is less than 250 miles. A 300 mile range with a reasonable recharge time would fit my lifestyle, but I'm not every owner.

Is there any reason aftermarket/RV trailer mfrs can't put extended range batteries under an RV floor with a power tether connecting to the towing vehicle? It's obviously not cheap, but adding a few battery "panels" under the floorboards of the RV proper to increase the onboard kwh capacity surely wouldn't have too much of a weight penalty?

Yep, but that is 250 miles with gas stations everywhere. I think 300 miles would be the bare minimum for me, maybe 350 would be reasonable.

I stumbled across this the other day, it may interest you. Airstream has an electric RV concept. See below link.

eStream Concept Travel Trailer | Airstream Electrifying Adventure

A fully electric concept that brings to life multiple innovations.

www.airstream.com

 

[IdahoJOAT]

I'll go right ahead and mention the range on my 20 gallon 196 is less than 250 miles. A 300 mile range with a reasonable recharge time would fit my lifestyle, but I'm not every owner.

Is there any reason aftermarket/RV trailer mfrs can't put extended range batteries under an RV floor with a power tether connecting to the towing vehicle? It's obviously not cheap, but adding a few battery "panels" under the floorboards of the RV proper to increase the onboard kwh capacity surely wouldn't have too much of a weight penalty?

I can tell you on our 4xe, once something is plugged into the female J1772 port, the vehicle will not move anymore.

Now that doesn't mean it can't get a signal from a purpose-built portable generator, but it's a factor.

 

[sickspeed]

Most modern offroad capable SUVs, or people for that matter, can't go more than 250-300 miles without stopping anyway so focusing on that range with good recharge time and capability is probably best. Keep in mind that the vast majority of EV owners can meet all of their needs with a type 1 or 2 charger at home. It's akin to every home having its own gas station...

 

[Central Oregon Guy]

Most modern offroad capable SUVs, or people for that matter, can't go more than 250-300 miles without stopping anyway so focusing on that range with good recharge time and capability is probably best. Keep in mind that the vast majority of EV owners can meet all of their needs with a type 1 or 2 charger at home. It's akin to every home having its own gas station...

I agree that good recharge time is important, we have a level 2 home charger for my wife’s Rav 4 Prime.

For me range matters; because we don’t yet have extensive charging infrastructure in Oregon or surrounding States like Idaho. I will easily travel 120+ miles to go hunt, camp or hike, there are no charging stations in these extremely isolated locations, I need enough charge to get me home.

Being that electric vehicles rely heavily on aerodynamics for range, things like rooftop tents will require more battery capacity to offset the extra aerodynamic inefficiencies. An example would be how changing wheel configurations on a Rivian R1T; alters the range substantially.

If the Scout is going to be an Overland vehicle, it needs to be built rugged and reliable with enough range for real life activities. Or at least have an option for a larger battery or range extender. Otherwise I’ll probably just stick to my 4Runner or get a Tundra Hybrid.

 

[ClownCar]

Range of 300-ish miles (500km) is a magic number for me. I already have a level 2 charger at home and expect that 95% of my charging will be done at home. I know it's all a balancing act of battery size vs. weight vs cost. I know everyone wants the highest range, but I also don't want to pay more for, or carry around, battery capacity that I may never need. Living in the North a heat pump will also be essential to support winter range.

 

[Central Oregon Guy]

Range of 300-ish miles (500km) is a magic number for me. I already have a level 2 charger at home and expect that 95% of my charging will be done at home. I know it's all a balancing act of battery size vs. weight vs cost. I know everyone wants the highest range, but I also don't want to pay more for, or carry around, battery capacity that I may never need. Living in the North a heat pump will also be essential to support winter range.

Agreed, I recently read that heat pumps help electric vehicles operate more efficiently!

Heat pumps included in GM EVs could give them a real-world range advantage

The key component can heat the cabin, power low-level electrical components, or even preconditioning of the battery—potentially extending range by as much as 10%.

www.greencarreports.com

 

[LastDayScout]

Agreed, I recently read that heat pumps help electric vehicles operate more efficiently!

Heat pumps included in GM EVs could give them a real-world range advantage

The key component can heat the cabin, power low-level electrical components, or even preconditioning of the battery—potentially extending range by as much as 10%.

www.greencarreports.com

I had a 2019 Model 3 without the heat pump and now have a 2022 with the heat pump. I can tell you it’s a significant difference. Not only is the range better, but it heats up very quickly!

 

[Central Oregon Guy]

I had a 2019 Model 3 without the heat pump and now have a 2022 with the heat pump. I can tell you it’s a significant difference. Not only is the range better, but it heats up very quickly!

Do you have well developed charging infrastructure where you live? Have you ever had problems finding a charger? Did you get the long range Tesla 3?

 

[LastDayScout]

Do you have well developed charging infrastructure where you live? Have you ever had problems finding a charger? Did you get the long range Tesla 3?

I charge at work or at home on a level 2. Yes, there are Charge Point chargers etc around. It’s not like big cities but it’s pretty good. No issues finding chargers on my infrequent road trips. Superchargers are easier and often quicker than gas stops in my opinion. You rarely have to “fill up” when charging. By the time you stretch your legs, go to the bathroom and grab a drink it’s charged enough to continue. Yes, I got a Model 3 Long Range.

 

[Central Oregon Guy]

I read an article that interested me; regarding range degradation in cold weather.

Check Out Winter And Cold Weather EV Range Loss Data From 7,000 Cars

A recent study gathered data from 7,000 vehicles and tens of thousands of data points to determine how much range popular EV models lose in cold weather.

insideevs.com

 

[Rustic_father]

I read an article that interested me; regarding range degradation in cold weather.

Check Out Winter And Cold Weather EV Range Loss Data From 7,000 Cars

A recent study gathered data from 7,000 vehicles and tens of thousands of data points to determine how much range popular EV models lose in cold weather.

insideevs.com

This is a real reason why a heat pump is so important for colder weather climates. The vehicles that have heat pump supported AC systems are far more efficient when generating heat for the cabin.

the VW ID.4 for North America decided not to include a heat pump and instead it used an electric resistance heater which is very ineficient thats why you see it loses 30% while a similarly sized Tesla Model Y (that does have a heat pump) only loses 15% in cold weather.

 

[ClownCar]

This is a real reason why a heat pump is so important for colder weather climates. The vehicles that have heat pump supported AC systems are far more efficient when generating heat for the cabin.

the VW ID.4 for North America decided not to include a heat pump and instead it used an electric resistance heater which is very ineficient thats why you see it loses 30% while a similarly sized Tesla Model Y (that does have a heat pump) only loses 15% in cold weather.

In Canada, 2023 ID.4's seem to be available for order with an optional heat pump.

Download the ID.4 comparison guide hereOpen external link

But agreed, heat pump is a requirement for me for any future EV purchase.

 

[enyhey]

300 Mile range seems a standard goal among most vehicles sold domestically. That being said they can be re-fueled in a reasonable timeframe with many fueling sites available even in remote areas. For a strictly EV platform to be competitive you would need to have at minimum equal range to the counterpart standard. Especially considering the lack of refueling infrastructure currently in place. Another thing to consider is range available among various climate extremes.

In the southwest you may have heating issues with the motors and storage systems. In the northern and mountainous areas you will experience massive reductions in both range and charging speed. The market for this vehicle to be a great success spans a wide variety of environmental and duty ranges, hopefully it will be suitable for most. Otherwise I hope they produce it with area specific editions that will excel in the intended market.

 

[Chaparral]

I love to take my family on road trips. But range and lack of charging in many areas might be a problem when I go electric.

Example
7 day / 6 nights California to New Mexico. Total 2200+ miles.

Day 1 Temecula CA to White Sands National Park NM (12 hr drive)
Day 2 White Sands National Park, primitive tent camping (1 hr driving)
Day 3 White Sands to Carlsbad Caverns National Park (3 hrs) then to Santa Fe (5.5 hrs)
Day 4 Bandelier National Monument
Day 5 Santa Fe
Day 6 Petrified Forest National Park then Flagstaff AZ (6 hr driving)
Day 7 Flagstaff AZ to Temecula CA (7.5 hrs)

Is this even possible with electric?

 

[LastDayScout]

I love to take my family on road trips. But range and lack of charging in many areas might be a problem when I go electric.

Example
7 day / 6 nights California to New Mexico. Total 2200+ miles.

Day 1 Temecula CA to White Sands National Park NM (12 hr drive)
Day 2 White Sands National Park, primitive tent camping (1 hr driving)
Day 3 White Sands to Carlsbad Caverns National Park (3 hrs) then to Santa Fe (5.5 hrs)
Day 4 Bandelier National Monument
Day 5 Santa Fe
Day 6 Petrified Forest National Park then Flagstaff AZ (6 hr driving)
Day 7 Flagstaff AZ to Temecula CA (7.5 hrs)

Is this even possible with electric?

I think so. Try this site.

PlugShare - EV Charging Station Map - Find a place to charge

Find EV charging stations with PlugShare, the most complete map of electric vehicle charging stations in the world!Charging tips reviews and photos from the EV community.

www.plugshare.com

They also have an app and it will work with CarPlay. Plug your trip into their site and see how it looks.

 

[Chaparral]

I think so. Try this site.

PlugShare - EV Charging Station Map - Find a place to charge

Find EV charging stations with PlugShare, the most complete map of electric vehicle charging stations in the world!Charging tips reviews and photos from the EV community.

www.plugshare.com

They also have an app and it will work with CarPlay. Plug your trip into their site and see how it looks.

I tried out this tool. Assuming I have 300 miles of range and I’m able to use 80% of that between charges I’d need to almost fully charge at least 8 times during this trip. The first leg requires at least two charges to get to the first destination. Also there’s no overnight charging on the night when I’m camping in the desert.

Because the trip already has packed days with a couple of late arrivals at hotels going electric would add 3 days to the trip much of which would be spent waiting in Walmart parking lots. That’s 3 lost days of work and 3 additional hotel nights to pay for.

I used this example because it’s an actual trip I have done (with two drivers switching on the long stretches).

I’m hoping the Scout will have a very long range that exceeds the 300 miles offered by heavy vehicles like the Rivian.

 

[Rustic_father]

I tried out this tool. Assuming I have 300 miles of range and I’m able to use 80% of that between charges I’d need to almost fully charge at least 8 times during this trip. The first leg requires at least two charges to get to the first destination. Also there’s no overnight charging on the night when I’m camping in the desert.

Because the trip already has packed days with a couple of late arrivals at hotels going electric would add 3 days to the trip much of which would be spent waiting in Walmart parking lots. That’s 3 lost days of work and 3 additional hotel nights to pay for.

I used this example because it’s an actual trip I have done (with two drivers switching on the long stretches).

I’m hoping the Scout will have a very long range that exceeds the 300 miles offered by heavy vehicles like the Rivian.

another great tool to use is ABRP. this is more accurate and has better information based on the vehicle you are driving. i reccomend you tell it you are useing a rivian R1T or R1S (depending what scout you are interested in). this will let you know not only where and how long you will need to stop at every location but the state of the battery at every leg.

ABRP

ABetterRouteplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.

abetterrouteplanner.com

 

[JohnBills]

another great tool to use is ABRP. this is more accurate and has better information based on the vehicle you are driving. i reccomend you tell it you are useing a rivian R1T or R1S (depending what scout you are interested in). this will let you know not only where and how long you will need to stop at every location but the state of the battery at every leg.

ABRP

ABetterRouteplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.

abetterrouteplanner.com

ABRP is the best EV trip planner I've found as well.