Scout Design Team Feedback V1

[Rustic_father]

Two items I forgot to mention in my design wish-list, and they are big ones.
1. Easily removable batteries. By 2026 and beyond I believe the expectation is that battery swapping stations will be a reality, or close to it. Think of gas stations for batteries where you can pull in and get your batteries swapped.

I would say that this is very unlikely to happen. Battery packs are large, heavy and complex. Not only does a battery pack need to be electrically connected to the chassis but there are cooling tubes that go to radiators. So inorder for there to be a "swap station" it would need to have quick disconnects for High voltage, and make sure there would be no air introduced into the cooling system, and the quick release fasteners would need to be very strong to hold a multi thousand pound battery pack.

But going with the brainstorming to say that all of those things were figured out there still goes the first problem: The battery pack is large and heavy. So there would need to be a dedicated building to house a large handful of battery packs that would need to be constantly charging and ready to be swapped out...and also a place to house and plug in the battery getting changed out. This would be a pretty hefty sized building and it would need to be very strong to support all that weight.

on top of that how long do you think a swap would reasonably take? park the vehicle, they take it, drive it over a thing, lifts up, takes out pack, disconnects HV/coolant, then moves it away, moves in a new one, plugs in, secures it. takes it off the lift....reasonably i think this process would take as long as an oil change......an oil change maybe takes 10-15 minutes?

in 10-15 minutes you can charge 60-70% of a battery at a Fast DC charger.

How much do you think a battery swap would cost? It would have to include: Electricity(battery was charged), Pay for the employee who performs the action, some overhead for the facility, and profits.

Compare that to a fast DC charger. there are no highly trained staff, there is no heavy duty facility....the Charging infrastructure would need to be made...just like a swap station.

so if you plug into a fast charger all you pay for is the elctricity, much less overhead for the charging station, and company profits....i think the clear answer is it would cost waaaaaay more to get your battery swapped out rather than just plugging into a DC fast charger.

 

[lefty]

I would say that this is very unlikely to happen. Battery packs are large, heavy and complex. Not only does a battery pack need to be electrically connected to the chassis but there are cooling tubes that go to radiators. So inorder for there to be a "swap station" it would need to have quick disconnects for High voltage, and make sure there would be no air introduced into the cooling system, and the quick release fasteners would need to be very strong to hold a multi thousand pound battery pack.

But going with the brainstorming to say that all of those things were figured out there still goes the first problem: The battery pack is large and heavy. So there would need to be a dedicated building to house a large handful of battery packs that would need to be constantly charging and ready to be swapped out...and also a place to house and plug in the battery getting changed out. This would be a pretty hefty sized building and it would need to be very strong to support all that weight.

on top of that how long do you think a swap would reasonably take? park the vehicle, they take it, drive it over a thing, lifts up, takes out pack, disconnects HV/coolant, then moves it away, moves in a new one, plugs in, secures it. takes it off the lift....reasonably i think this process would take as long as an oil change......an oil change maybe takes 10-15 minutes?

in 10-15 minutes you can charge 60-70% of a battery at a Fast DC charger.

How much do you think a battery swap would cost? It would have to include: Electricity(battery was charged), Pay for the employee who performs the action, some overhead for the facility, and profits.

Compare that to a fast DC charger. there are no highly trained staff, there is no heavy duty facility....the Charging infrastructure would need to be made...just like a swap station.

so if you plug into a fast charger all you pay for is the elctricity, much less overhead for the charging station, and company profits....i think the clear answer is it would cost waaaaaay more to get your battery swapped out rather than just plugging into a DC fast charger.

There seems to be a lot of market skepticism re: battery swapping but t's already in play. I know Renault wasn't successful but NIO in China is doing it with plans to expand into the US and European markets by 2025.

 

[J Alynn]

There seems to be a lot of market skepticism re: battery swapping but t's already in play. I know Renault wasn't successful but NIO in China is doing it with plans to expand into the US and European markets by 2025.

I think there will come a time when swapping is needed as part of a service interval at say 2-3 years but for daily driving and the forward advancement of charging I don’t see swaps being used as a daily means of mobility

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I think there will come a time when swapping is needed as part of a service interval at say 2-3 years but for daily driving and the forward advancement of charging I don’t see swaps being used as a daily means of mobility

Recent data shows that 10-year-old EVs (older Tesla Model S with slightly older battery style) only show an average of 4.5% degradation of battery life over ten years. The wafer-thin battery in your cell phone charged every night has a tougher situation than a car/truck full of large batteries. So overall, it would seem that battery degradation isn't as bad as originally thought when it comes to cars.

That said, it would be nice to upgrade down the road. There is so much going on in the battery business right now that it wouldn't surprise me that we get to that point. That said, I'm guessing software and processing power will be the next issue, similar to computers or phones, except at a 10-15 year interval instead of every 2-5 years. We'll see. Going to be interesting times for sure.

 

[Rustic_father]

There seems to be a lot of market skepticism re: battery swapping but t's already in play. I know Renault wasn't successful but NIO in China is doing it with plans to expand into the US and European markets by 2025.

The main difference with NIO in China is that they mostly produce small mopeds and bikes. The style of removable battery packs that they operate with would require 10 or 15 in order to power a car

 

[R1TVT]

If we can't get adequate infrastructure in place for DCFC, we will be very hard pressed to see any sort of business model around battery swapping (even at a dealer it would be difficult to support). It would be easier with an established standard in place for battery removal & subsequent storage and charging of batteries, and it would be much more practical on a smaller car with a smaller battery for a variety of reasons. I could see this happening in 2030? interoperability between manufacturers won't be easy, and that would give this some momentum.

 

[mwmassie]

Scout Traveler 4DR concept

 

[LastDayScout]

Scout Traveler 4DR concept

I like this a lot. I like it has more of the Scout II regular hard top look instead of the original traveler top. No offense traveler owners

 

[sellisssn717]

Off-roader West Coast. Focus on desert and High Sierra trails. Rubicon to Big Bear, Mojave to Joshua Tree, I do them all every year. I often think about EV design for off-road and cannot wait for the opportunity to wheel a Scout EV!!!

1. Bumper and Winch - I love the approach angle and conceptual front end. What I would like to see is a winch mount behind the grill to keep the bumper protrusion to a minimum and keeping the weight back from the ends of the vehicle. Assumption - there is significant space behind the grill face and under the hood for this.
2. Modular Roof and Doors- I do not want a removable top. Nobody is ever happy with the options. I would prefer panels that can be removed but not like the jeep freedom tops that include the door sill edges and are bulky. I want flat low volume sections that can be removed and stored internally, that maintain aerodynamics and quiet cabin same with the windows. Doors should also be removable.
3. Body - Modular 1/4 panels that adapt to design for SUV type here as with the bronco, if you go above a 35" tire you need to cut and fabricate the wheel openings. On the JL you can fit a 37" tire with little to no lift on the jeep at all. I understand aerodynamic constraints for the EV efficiency but some like to go heavy and it would be cool to undo a few body bolts and clips and change to an aggressive FRP fender replacement to fit bigger tires.
4. Battery - I hear it all the time (I go too far for a battery... bla bla bla) if you could get a stock configuration Scout EV to go 275 miles that would be outstanding. If I could add an Expedition pack to that for my camel trophy dream excursions, I think the argumentation could be resolved.
5. Electrical - Minimalist and simple. Micro USB ports and connectivity. GET RID OF ALL PARASIDIC LOADS! No power windows. no gadgetry that can suck power, Auxiliary up fitter switches with a selectable dead timeout (4 minimum 6 maximum). No seat heaters! Low wattage Stereo and Navigation system.
6. Seating - Removable seating. A Scout EV needs to be space and weight optomized for adventure!!!

 

[mudhorn_trail]

1. Option for 33" tires (285/70R17) without modifications
2. Steel front bumper with hidden winch but exposed recovery points / shackles, optional bull bar. Steel rear bumper with optional spare swing out.
3. Prewired with tactile aux switch panel for the following: bumper light bar, A-pillar ditch lights, roof rack front facing lights, roof rack side lights, underbody rock lights, rear chase lights
4. Integrated air compressor in the back for airing up/down tires easily with long hose
5. Tactile switches, knobs, dials that are easily controlled with winter gloves. Mechanical gauges and vents that are fail safe.
6. Fold flat rear seat or a sliding compartmentalized cargo tray in the back that levels with the rear seats to allow for sleeping in the back.
7. No iPad stuck to the dash type look. Integrate any screen for a clean look. Common buttons easy to push with a thick winter glove.
8. Armor: low profile rock rails, aluminum underbody skids, with room for full size spare underneath (4Runner)
9. Pass through integrated dual 12V battery system for charging a fridge, phones, heated blanket, etc with optional portable solar charging
10. Single 220V outlet and multiple 120V outlets with capacity for vehicle to home emergency backup power

Maybe this is already decided, but here's what I'd like to see: Keeping things simple and lower cost with solid axles and spring/piston suspension, single powerful motor with high gear that is optimized for speeds <70 mph, an additional low crawl gear, independent electronic locking front/center/rear differentials (triple locked), optional sway bar disconnect, 70/30 split hatch/tailgate (Land Cruiser) with rear window that can lower (4Runner). Door handles that don't fail when frozen and can be operated with thick winter gloves. Optional portal gears for those who want serious additional lift with gear reduction and ability for 35"-37" tires.

Very excited to see what is in store for the Scout!

 

[Odderblue]

I saw a lot of really good ideas here.

My needs are general and this might be a little late for the original post but I was recently introduced to the site by a friend who knows I love my scout.

1. Customized to personal style and preference without breaking the bank.
2. Easy to find my scout thinking glow in the dark paint job. (especially in a look alike parking lot of modern cars).
3. Nod to the past while setting the standard for future.
4. 2 and 4 door options in truck and SUV styles.
5. Easy button/knob to adjust all lights at night.
6. Innovative convenient charging for on and off grid (ie solar, wind ports, drive over docking stations in home garage)
7. Electronics that are robust and easy. (Think secure against a human EMP.)
8. Maintain Utilitarian Functionality of traditional brand. (Including full self rescue kits, full size spare, mini spare battery or solar charger, etc.)
9. Spacious easy to see out of with room to pack for all my adventures.
10. Functions that make it easy for a human to drive in any condition. (I want to drive it and have the option to think for myself).

 

[Bodie]

Late to the site but here's my top 10:
1) Removeable top - one piece to minimize leaks. I can take the steel top off and on my '78 by myself in my garage, it's not that hard.
2) Waterproof interior - build it like a boat on the inside and have drain holes
3) A real tailgate, not a door
4) Maximum modularity for personalization (see Bronco and Jeep)
5) KISS. Don't overcomplicate anything
6) Be able to remove doors and have inserts and soft doors that would work with a soft top (a SS II package maybe)
7) Ability to power OUT like a generator or like a Tesla powerwall
8) Maximum exterior/interior color options with at least some original combos
9) Lots of lockable, secure storage (the top will be off)
10) Rust proof!

 

[Chaparral]

I might be a bit late on this thread.

1) The new CarPlay that Apple previewed
2) Physical tactile switches for every function of car (touchscreen only for data feeds/CarPlay/navigation/rarely used settings)
3) removable roof/doors. Removable top compatible with roof rack (like Bronco)
4) Longest range possible with available battery space (I need it all)
5) Modularity, customizability, lugs and anchor points everywhere they might be needed.
6) No luxuries, just keep the price down and save weight
7) Easy to clean surfaces, no carpet, easy to replace high wear parts.
8) Off road capabilities to match Wrangler/Bronco
9) Lots of practical accessories, winch, compressor, racks, 5 Gal water containers etc
10 Approx dimensions, length 164 (without spare on back), width 79 (mirrors folded), height 75, wheelbase 110, tires 35.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Not too late. Keep the suggestions coming.

 

[RebelliousPeasant]

1. 800V EV architecture
2. V2X capability (vehicle to load/grid/etc.), at least 1,500W AC (standard outlet) or better, plugs front and rear.
3. Heat pump.
4. Toggle switches (don't care for what, toggle switches are just cool).
5. Roof rails or integrated roof rack system with stowable crossbars.
6. 'Camping mode' - ability to run HVAC and V2X system while vehicle is otherwise "off".
7. Front trunk (aka lockable storage for tools etc)
8. Vibrant paint colours (orange, light and dark greens, yellow, bright blue, red, etc)
9. Full size spare
10. Wide enough rear truck space to fit 80cuft standard scuba tanks laying on their side

 

[LastDayScout]

In my mind, we are balancing three different moods here: the warm, sunny nature of the original Scouts; the heavily lifted, big-wheeled, lots-of-black aggression of contemporary gas-powered SUVs; and the minimalist sleekness of EV cars and trucks. All of these influences need to be taken onboard, but I tend to gravitate to the first of them, because we are looking long-term here and heritage is unique and enduring, whereas the latter two may turn out to be fleeting trends. So, without further ado...

1) Two-piece tailgate and liftgate
2) Lots of tactile details, from door handles to physical switches in the cabin
3) LED screen that mimics the strip speedo and ancillary gauges of the Scout II (echoing an earlier comment in the thread)
4) Easily adjustable ride height
5) Easily removable hardtop (not soft-top)
6) LWB SUV based on pickup that has a three-row option like the Traveler
7) Plaid seat/trim options (yes, Scout Motors drags America kicking and screaming out of the gloom of black interiors!)
8) A color palette inspired by 1960s and '70s Scout choices - lots of distinctive options here that aren't made available by other brands
9) Side stripe/decal options for those who don't have the confidence to personalize their Scout in the aftermarket
10) A computerized version of the "Line Setting Ticket" inside every glovebox on delivery, emphasizing that while each Scout has industrial strength and an ultra-modern powertrain, it is also personalized and crafted in the best American tradition

My two cents!

I just did a thread search to see if anyone had mentioned Line Setting Tickets. I certainly hope Scout brings back that tradition. I had mine for my 1980. A digital copy would be really cool. Even include it stored within the screen. It should definitely be part of the owner’s Scout app.

 

[Harris005]

I just did a thread search to see if anyone had mentioned Line Setting Tickets. I certainly hope Scout brinks back that tradition. I had mine for my 1980. A digital copy would be really cool. Even include it stored within the screen. It should definitely be part of the owner’s Scout app.

Still like the idea that each Scout made gets its own online page, both telling the production story as well as and ongoing "life of" story of that Scout.

Post in thread 'Idea: Cradle to Delivery' https://scoutmotors.community.forum/threads/idea-cradle-to-delivery.48/post-563

Post in thread 'Idea: Cradle to Delivery' https://scoutmotors.community.forum/threads/idea-cradle-to-delivery.48/post-916

The digital line ticket should be its first post for sure! The one thing I would add to the above ideas is to make it user friendly to find things down the road. Example being not having to scroll all the way to the begining to find the line ticket. Instead, have a structured filing set up as well off to the side that makes it easy to navigate to find past post/uploads. I definitely agree this should all be accessible via a cool Scout Motors app!

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

So we had the same idea when we started the Registry part of the forums. Can't make promises as there are a lot of logistical issues, but I think we will implement a lot of this.

 

[RebelliousPeasant]

One thing I forgot to mention was the location of the charge port. Can it please be in the front (nose) of the vehicle somewhere? Having charging doors towards the rear isn't ideal, especially if you're pulling a trailer. Depending on where the charging pedestal is backing in can be awkward and cable lengths can be an issue, just ask any e-tron or Taycan drivers how much fun it is positioning their vehicles correctly to charge. Having it on the nose gives the most flexibility, you can always nose into a charging spot, even with a trailer, and the cable will always reach the front of the vehicle.

Also, just to weigh in on the battery swapping thing, it's not a really viable solution. It's true that Nio does do it successfully but they operate in a very unique niche and likely one that is peculier to China and probably won't export well to Europe or North America. Even with their swap stations in China it's hard to see much benefit or a reasonable business case for swapping to make sense. Swapping takes just as much time as fast charging (if you compare time spent at the facility), is actually pretty inconvenient, and doesn't scale well. Plus it's inherently non-standard which means either all car makers get together and design a common standard platform and battery pack (good luck with that, the car industry can't even standardize the colour of turn signals!) or each car maker would need to build out their own unique swap stations (like what NIO is doing).

A swap station has a pretty large physical footprint compared to a charging stall and the swap process is more like a gas station where it requires the driver to stay with the vehicle while the swap takes place which means they can't just go to the washroom or get food while it happens, they need to stay with the car and do those thing after it's done the swap. With charging you can leave your car and go off and do other stuff while your car charges.

And that's assuming there's no lineup to use the swap station. They seem fast in isolation, if there's no demand, but the minute more than one person wants to use it at the same time there are problems and you lose the notional speed advantage. Each station can only handle so many cars per hour and if you want to increase capacity you need to add more big swap facilities. It's a serial process. Compare that to a charging station where if demand increases they can simply add more stalls - charging happens in parallel. The busier and bigger the charge stop the more likely someone will be finishing up charging as you roll in or there will be a stall available. Wait times can actually decrease with scale for chargers but that doesn't happen with swap stations.

Also as was said earlier, EV batteries don't generally need to be replaced during the service life of the vehicle. All data points to the batteries outlasting the cars they're put in. (Assuming there are no manufacturing defects which would be covered under the 8 year warranty anyway.) So you should not expect to have to replace the battery of your vehicle at all during its life. I have an 11 year old EV and its battery is still doing its thing...the rest of the car however, not so much lol (the frame of my car is literally rusting away but the battery pack is totally fine).

 

[LastDayScout]

One thing I forgot to mention was the location of the charge port. Can it please be in the front (nose) of the vehicle somewhere? Having charging doors towards the rear isn't ideal, especially if you're pulling a trailer. Depending on where the charging pedestal is backing in can be awkward and cable lengths can be an issue, just ask any e-tron or Taycan drivers how much fun it is positioning their vehicles correctly to charge. Having it on the nose gives the most flexibility, you can always nose into a charging spot, even with a trailer, and the cable will always reach the front of the vehicle.

Also, just to weigh in on the battery swapping thing, it's not a really viable solution. It's true that Nio does do it successfully but they operate in a very unique niche and likely one that is peculier to China and probably won't export well to Europe or North America. Even with their swap stations in China it's hard to see much benefit or a reasonable business case for swapping to make sense. Swapping takes just as much time as fast charging (if you compare time spent at the facility), is actually pretty inconvenient, and doesn't scale well. Plus it's inherently non-standard which means either all car makers get together and design a common standard platform and battery pack (good luck with that, the car industry can't even standardize the colour of turn signals!) or each car maker would need to build out their own unique swap stations (like what NIO is doing).

A swap station has a pretty large physical footprint compared to a charging stall and the swap process is more like a gas station where it requires the driver to stay with the vehicle while the swap takes place which means they can't just go to the washroom or get food while it happens, they need to stay with the car and do those thing after it's done the swap. With charging you can leave your car and go off and do other stuff while your car charges.

And that's assuming there's no lineup to use the swap station. They seem fast in isolation, if there's no demand, but the minute more than one person wants to use it at the same time there are problems and you lose the notional speed advantage. Each station can only handle so many cars per hour and if you want to increase capacity you need to add more big swap facilities. It's a serial process. Compare that to a charging station where if demand increases they can simply add more stalls - charging happens in parallel. The busier and bigger the charge stop the more likely someone will be finishing up charging as you roll in or there will be a stall available. Wait times can actually decrease with scale for chargers but that doesn't happen with swap stations.

Also as was said earlier, EV batteries don't generally need to be replaced during the service life of the vehicle. All data points to the batteries outlasting the cars they're put in. (Assuming there are no manufacturing defects which would be covered under the 8 year warranty anyway.) So you should not expect to have to replace the battery of your vehicle at all during its life. I have an 11 year old EV and its battery is still doing its thing...the rest of the car however, not so much lol (the frame of my car is literally rusting away but the battery pack is totally fine).

Lots of people hoping for front and rear charge points. Including me!