Lessons Learned on Range Anxiety

[SpaceEVDriver]

Generally speaking, yes. Rates at Superchargers are higher for non-Teslas. One can create a Supercharger subscription account, which gives lower rates, bit you'd need to do some math to determine whether the cost of the subscription saves you anything in the end. Basically, the ROI tends to only turn out to be worth it if you do a lot of DC fast charging at Superchargers. I  think it's possible to easily create and cancel the subscription, so that approach might make sense if a cross country trip is in the cards.

I have a subscription. It works out to be about a 50% savings against a non-subscription. My average charge at a Supercharger cost almost exactly $20. A savings of $10 on average per session means a $13/mo subscription fee is recovered in about two months. The average cost for my use of superchargers is about $0.42/kWh, which is quite high and gives me an average cost/mile of about $0.17/mile, which is pretty high.

For non-brand-T fast charging, my average cost per kWh is $0.36/kWh, and about $0.15/mile, which is also high--about as high as I would be paying for fuel for a 4x4 F-150 ICE with 10,000 pound towing capacity.

When I charge at home, I pay about $0.02-$0.07/mile, depending on various factors like whether I force a charge during peak times or charge during super off-peak times.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

It cost me $1300 all in with installation to code, but I had sufficient capacity in my breaker box - not everyone will, and upgrading a home electrical system could be significantly more expensive. I bought a Blink HQ 200 smart charger. My state gave me a rebate on my taxes last year so I think net it was like $700.

So, as compared to paying for fuel, the payoff is less than a year.

Compared to public charging - don't know, but the couple times I charged from around 30% to 80%, it cost around $13 or so. So that payoff is longer, but within the lease period for my Polestar.

[Edited to fix logic and math errors]

I do public DC fast charging a lot when going on road trips. The payoff time for around-town driving and charging at home vs charging at a public fast charger is very short.

For me, I pay about $13 for a 0% to 100% charge of the Lightning at home when charging during normal hours (not on-peak and not super-off-peak). If I wanted to get a full 0% to 100% charge of the Lightning at a relatively cheap Electrify America charger ($0.36/kWh), it would cost about $47.00.

I drive about 15-20k miles a year, or about 48 charge cycles while on road trips and about 32 charge cycles for around town driving.

For at-home only charging, that would be $225/year to charge for 15,000 miles (32 charge cycles). I can make it cheaper by programming the charge times more specifically to only be on super off-peak.

For public DCFC charging $48 per charge cycle and 48 charge cycles, that's about $2304.

Saving about $1500/year means a 1-year payoff.

 

[MountainDad]

The fact that you never know what condition the chargers will be in when you get there, is a contributing factor of "range anxiety". With the billions that have been dumped into the charging system, you would think that things would be a little bit better. I'm interested in actual work being done to reduce the breakdown and reduce the charging time to something realistic.
Also not mentioned here is, what do people do while they wait at a charger? I'm not one to walk away from my vehicle while out. It seems if you sit in the vehicle, your using energy to heat or cool it. Is everyone just comfortable walking away? As @J Alynn said, are you spending more money while you wait?

Many more now are monitored and status presented in Google Maps, but some are not.

 

[Harris005]

slept in a comfortable bed at the hotel nearby and charged up on the Level2 chargers--the car's not doing anything else while we're sleeping, so it might as well charge. There were sometimes lines there.

I have often wondered how the overnight charge at a hotel works....or if it works yet.

1) You limit your hotel selections trying to find ones that offer overnight charging. My wife travels a lot for work, so we are always trying to stick to Marriott's to use her points. I just checked the app, went to Orlando Fl. and had 113 options. Then I filtered for EV chargers and it dropped down to 24 options.
2) How do you know when you stay there that you are even going to get one of the EV chargers? Do you reserve those with your room stay?
3) Crazy to me that hotel owners don't make this a requirement to be able to provide chargers. I would think they are turning away a lot of overnight reservations if they don't have a charging option.

 

[R1TVT]

Every place I have been with free L2 charging is just "first come first serve", like any other station. If you don't get one and they are full, you can just hit a DCFC and be on your way too. If you are there for more than a day, they always free up...

 

[OIBScout]

We have Tesla Destination Charger (Level 2 "Wall Connector" this week), on an Eaton BR260 two-pole breaker, delivering the max 50A charging. It was $420 + $250 for the EC to install it within 10' of our main panel. Easy.

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[OIBScout]

I have often wondered how the overnight charge at a hotel works....or if it works yet.

1) You limit your hotel selections trying to find ones that offer overnight charging. My wife travels a lot for work, so we are always trying to stick to Marriott's to use her points. I just checked the app, went to Orlando Fl. and had 113 options. Then I filtered for EV chargers and it dropped down to 24 options.
2) How do you know when you stay there that you are even going to get one of the EV chargers? Do you reserve those with your room stay?
3) Crazy to me that hotel owners don't make this a requirement to be able to provide chargers. I would think they are turning away a lot of overnight reservations if they don't have a charging option.

We've used Tesla Destination Chargers at some hotels between Charlotte and Myrtle Beach. They were free to use for guests. Not sure how they were installed, but assuming they are on two-pole 20A or two-pole 30A breaker.

 

[J Alynn]

We have Tesla Destination Charger (Level 2 "Wall Connector" this week), on a two-pole 30A breaker, delivering the max 50A charging. It was $420 + $250 for the EC to install it within 10' of our main panel. Easy.

Loading…

shop.tesla.com

Not bad. Guessing with a new mini panel (only one pole left) I’m probably looking at $1,000-1,200. Guess it’s worth it for ease of charging at home

 

[OIBScout]

Not bad. Guessing with a new mini panel (only one pole left) I’m probably looking at $1,000-1,200. Guess it’s worth it for ease of charging at home

In North Carolina - and who knows what will happen to solar / EVs now - we used to have a credit for such installations. Maybe $1K for such. I don't know why people are paying $1300 to install a $420 charger. Unless you're penetrating walls to outside or running a long distance (you shouldn't anyway), you should be under a thousand for this installation.

 

[J Alynn]

In North Carolina - and who knows what will happen to solar / EVs now - we used to have a credit for such installations. Maybe $1K for such. I don't know why people are paying $1300 to install a $420 charger. Unless you're penetrating walls to outside or running a long distance (you shouldn't anyway), you should be under a thousand for this installation.

Would agree. I’m in the building industry too so hoping one of the electricians takes it easy on me. Kills me with the panel because it’s just below my garage but being 1 pole short just adds to the cost. I know Jamie and several others on here are in the same boat.

 

[OIBScout]

Would agree. I’m in the building industry too so hoping one of the electricians takes it easy on me. Kills me with the panel because it’s just below my garage but being 1 pole short just adds to the cost. I know Jamie and several others on here are in the same boat.

I'm in the commercial trades for advanced lighting controls, so would advise finding a residential contractor that does such small projects. They will do this for far less. You may be able to consolidate some other full size household circuits into tandems and free up some space for the two-pole 30A for full 50A Level 2.

 

[J Alynn]

I'm in the commercial trades for advanced lighting controls, so would advise finding a residential contractor that does such small projects. They will do this for far less. You may be able to consolidate some other full size household circuits into tandems and free up some space for the two-pole 30A for full 50A Level 2.View attachment 3785

Thanks for that info. I’ve got a buddy that does electrical so I’m assuming he will take care of me unless he just doesn’t want to deal with installing a charger. I have a few rooms we rarely use so maybe a breaker swap will work. Thanks again!

 

[OIBScout]

Thanks for that info. I’ve got a buddy that does electrical so I’m assuming he will take care of me unless he just doesn’t want to deal with installing a charger. I have a few rooms we rarely use so maybe a breaker swap will work. Thanks again!

I updated the breaker type we're using for our Level 2. It's Eaton, but I don't hold that against our EC. He hasn't let us down yet, LOL.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-Type-BR-60-Amp-2-Pole-Standard-Trip-Circuit-Breaker/1114115?idProductFound=false&idExtracted=false

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I have often wondered how the overnight charge at a hotel works....or if it works yet.

1) You limit your hotel selections trying to find ones that offer overnight charging. My wife travels a lot for work, so we are always trying to stick to Marriott's to use her points. I just checked the app, went to Orlando Fl. and had 113 options. Then I filtered for EV chargers and it dropped down to 24 options.
2) How do you know when you stay there that you are even going to get one of the EV chargers? Do you reserve those with your room stay?
3) Crazy to me that hotel owners don't make this a requirement to be able to provide chargers. I would think they are turning away a lot of overnight reservations if they don't have a charging option.

I treat destination chargers at hotels as bonus. The hotels don't always register their EV chargers with the corporate search engine, so I often double-check PlugShare before making a reservation.

If I were driving a gas car, I'd have two options:
Go get gas sometime before going to bed. This is a pain because I'm usually tired and hungry and just want to eat and go to bed.
Go get gas in the morning. This is a pain because I'm hungry and anxious to get moving.

With a level 2 destination charger, if it's available, I plug in when I arrive and I don't have to bother dealing with refueling. It's literally as easy as parking.

If there isn't a level 2 charger available, I go charge, just like I would with getting gas, usually in the evening, but sometimes in the morning.

In other words, there's more convenience than gas when a level 2 charger is available at a hotel and similar inconvenience to gas when it's not available.

 

[LastDayScout]

Recommendations? Are the Lectron and A2Z ones good? I have a Lectron 120v charger and it seems like it's pretty good quality (although it's really only for emergency charging at home or at a family members house/etc.)

I use Lectron adapters. Never any issues.

 

[LastDayScout]

The fact that you never know what condition the chargers will be in when you get there, is a contributing factor of "range anxiety". With the billions that have been dumped into the charging system, you would think that things would be a little bit better. I'm interested in actual work being done to reduce the breakdown and reduce the charging time to something realistic.
Also not mentioned here is, what do people do while they wait at a charger? I'm not one to walk away from my vehicle while out. It seems if you sit in the vehicle, your using energy to heat or cool it. Is everyone just comfortable walking away? As @J Alynn said, are you spending more money while you wait?

Not only do you find broken chargers, you also see vandalism. You will also encounter waiting for a proper charger because someone is charging a vehicle that cannot accept the higher voltage. They could have usually moved one stall over and gotten all the kW they need. If we do get access to Tesla Superchargers that will be great as they are usually pretty consistent in their power output. But there are others that are good. I charged a Mercedes Benz branded charger at a Buc-ee's and it was as good or better than any Tesla charger I have every used.

 

[Rampy]

I treat destination chargers at hotels as bonus. The hotels don't always register their EV chargers with the corporate search engine, so I often double-check PlugShare before making a reservation.

If I were driving a gas car, I'd have two options:
Go get gas sometime before going to bed. This is a pain because I'm usually tired and hungry and just want to eat and go to bed.
Go get gas in the morning. This is a pain because I'm hungry and anxious to get moving.

With a level 2 destination charger, if it's available, I plug in when I arrive and I don't have to bother dealing with refueling. It's literally as easy as parking.

If there isn't a level 2 charger available, I go charge, just like I would with getting gas, usually in the evening, but sometimes in the morning.

In other words, there's more convenience than gas when a level 2 charger is available at a hotel and similar inconvenience to gas when it's not available.

We just spent a couple days in a hotel with 3 EV chargers in use when we checked in

Around 11:45 when we got back (went to a Broadway production) there was a very very angry (almost hostile) guest throwing a temper tantrum as he is a diamond member and can’t charge his Tesla since the chargers are all in use

It was actually shocking to see this & the next morning the hotel said they have lots of complaints about people parking in the EV charging stations all night instead of moving the vehicle after it’s charged

On roadtrips we tend to eat hotel breakfast & get gas/coffee (hate hotel coffee) before hitting the road

 

[LastDayScout]

We just spent a couple days in a hotel with 3 EV chargers in use when we checked in

Around 11:45 when we got back (went to a Broadway production) there was a very very angry (almost hostile) guest throwing a temper tantrum as he is a diamond member and can’t charge his Tesla since the chargers are all in use

It was actually shocking to see this & the next morning the hotel said they have lots of complaints about people parking in the EV charging stations all night instead of moving the vehicle after it’s charged

On roadtrips we tend to eat hotel breakfast & get gas/coffee (hate hotel coffee) before hitting the road

It’s kinda like pulling up to the pumps when the station is busy and some jerk left the vehicle with the nozzle in while he or she is lollygagging inside buying lottery tickets and a big gulp. It’s inconvenient, inconsiderate and rude.

 

[Rampy]

Not only do you find broken chargers, you also see vandalism. You will also encounter waiting for a proper charger because someone is charging a vehicle that cannot accept the higher voltage. They could have usually moved one stall over and gotten all the kW they need. If we do get access to Tesla Superchargers that will be great as they are usually pretty consistent in their power output. But there are others that are good. I charged a Mercedes Benz branded charger at a Buc-ee's and it was as good or better than any Tesla charger I have every used.

Love Buc-ees, super clean bathrooms & that’s a real blessing, the food/snacks are just bonus points

 

[Rampy]

It’s kinda like pulling up to the pumps when the station is busy and some jerk left the vehicle with the nozzle in while he or she is lollygagging inside buying lottery tickets and a big gulp. It’s inconvenient, inconsiderate and rude.

Yep, very true