Road Trip in a VW Buzz: Success or Train Wreck

[J Alynn]

TFL is pretty legit. A couple of years ago they threw a camper on the bed of a Ford Lightning and took it to Alaska. Roman can be a little dramatic, but I don’t think his frustrations weren’t understandable with the charging issues he had.

Northern Lightning Amps To Alaska

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I don’t watch it yet but surprising that TFL did this and didn’t prep a bit better. They are usually pretty good-but again-YT mentality. Their Scout report was a bit odd as well but overall have their two different outlooks helps see 2 points of view sometimes so have at it!

 

[R1TVT]

What is TFL's business model? TFL is legit for getting clicks. They have done some pretty accurate assessments & quantitative tests on EV trucks in the past, but please don't confuse Roman's lack of planning or research on a "road trip" with Scout ownership (or ownership of any other EV's for that matter) and how hard, or how easy it might be to "roadtrip".

The fact that TFL literally has tested EV's for years & knows how charging works leaves me feeling more skeptical about them (not less).

in reality, this type of video is designed to generate advertising revenue that will in turn pay their bills. Don't ignore the agenda of TFL as a business entity.

 

[dleepnw]

a) VW software is not good - this is why they are partnering with Rivian.
b) Some of their issues were poor planning but a lot of the stuff TFL does is by the seat of their pants so no surprise.
c) The ID-Buzz has pretty low range to start, winter obviously makes it a lot worse and they were in low 20s temps.
d) Can't blame the vehicle for 3rd party chargers thats suck

 

[Derek]

I still remember my buddy who was the first EV owner I knew just trying to get his brand new 2012 Nissan Leaf from Phoenix to Tucson and back in one day. That's 98 miles in each direction. He had nothing but problems, GPS kept taking him to charging stations that were people's houses or not functional. He ended up emptying the battery and having to get towed all the way back home which was at that time a complimentary service Nissan provided. That was a different time, and obviously even today's Leaf is not comparable to the Buzz or future Scouts. But this video definitely gives me flashbacks to his story and epitomizes my fears as someone who has never owned an EV.

Also, I am one of the people who goes on road trips with a destination in mind and I just want to get there. I want to stop as infrequently and as briefly as possible.

Which is why I reserved a Traveler Harvester.

My road trips are a mix. I live in the West where there are big gaps between cities if you head east or SE. That said, the 350 miles on battery gets me easily to almost anyplace I want to go, even multi day offroading trips. I did get the Harvester just for those times we might take vacation from Seattle to California as it gives me the option to charge at lunch/dinner/hotel, but not really worry about making extra stops for charge other than ones I want to take anyway.

I am also excited about using the Harvester as a backup power source. My area loses power annoyingly often (at least 1-2x/year) and being able to hook the house to the truck, pull it out into the driveway and let the harvester run as needed to maintain power to the house (with a power transfer switch/etc) would be great. Also, I'd like it if the Scout would send me warnings via the app and turn the car off when it's down to a few gallons so I still have a way to go get things. I can tell you during a widespread power outage, it's often impossible to buy gas for miles, so I might have to drive 2 hours (20 miles) to get to an open station.

 

[chucchinchilla]

Totally hear you. I would also point out that we will offer the NACS charger right from the start of production, giving everyone access to the Tesla charging network. There are some great insights from EV owners here in this forum with real world examples, I would check those out as well. The other advantage we have is time over the next couple years as technology improves, more charging stations get installed and software continues to evolve and improve as well. Good for us as a company. Bad for all of us wanting their Scout soon.

NACS + Rivian Software + Harvester for those who want it = nothing to complain about that's within Scout's control...except one thing. Must have robust navigation options showing available EV chargers across a wide span of providers.

 

[R1TVT]

NACS + Rivian Software + Harvester for those who want it = nothing to complain about that's within Scout's control...except one thing. Must have robust navigation options showing available EV chargers across a wide span of providers.

That is covered in the Rivian SW, and is configurable by charger speed, and includes auto-routing. I would assume Scout would just leverage what is available there, but of course, just speculation at this stage.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

TFL just released a video road tripping the new VW Buzz, and it was a mess. The lack of range on the battery was one thing, but what’s worse is the GPS Routing Software that led them to charging stations that were down. This whole video is why a lot of us (me included) reserved the Harvester. It’s my hope that the software we get from Scout (owned by VW) is better than this! The whole video captures what every non EV owner is honestly afraid of.

I watched this video last night, thank you for bringing it up. I do not currently have an EV and yes I certainly do have a lot of reservations about owning one because of how we use our vehicles. I have some electric experience though because I have road-tripped an EV across 6 states in the West for a total of right at 3000 miles. Probably my least favorite experiences with road-tripping were when we had to wait in line (up to 40 minutes) just to get a charger so we could wait and charge. It wasn’t too bad compared to some other people’s experiences since we could use the Tesla network, but it certainly wasn’t all rainbows and kisses and unicorns like it gets portrayed at times when I compare it to having a gas vehicle. I’ll also throw in that we did stay at a hotel out West once that advertised having a bank of chargers…when we got there I asked about them and the front desk lady showed me the area of parking spots where the chargers would be “coming soon”.

If I’m honest, I don’t really care for dismissive responses to you sharing this video. I find your concerns to be valid and there are tidbits of information in the video that warrants consideration. I know there are people who are all about EV that don’t want to hear anything negative and there are real-world experiences that show how some of these pitfalls can be avoided, but to put a big blanket of electric is better in all ways over the whole discussion is to me unproductive.

In particular I would like to say that in my opinion with all of the technology in play it is unacceptable for a vehicle to route you to a bank of chargers that are not functional. In fact, if chargers become inoperable during your flight toward them or even if a bank of chargers gets overly congested - the vehicle should be continuously making sure it doesn’t need to reroute you just as navigation would normally do in the case of bad traffic. I don’t think this is too much to ask with current charging infrastructure and especially moving into the future.

I’m coming from a place where I road trip in the West and from what I gather things are different when you either get to California or when you’re farther East. There certainly are not chargers everywhere in the areas I travel by any stretch of the imagination. I also tow on almost all road trips. I also try to get somewhere quickly as I’ve said before since time is money for us - we don’t dilly-dally and we rarely stop and eat. If we do take a breather and eat something and use the restroom, it usually isn’t more than 20 minutes on a rare occasion. It’s not uncommon for us to just fill up and go. We would never stop on a road trip to go inside a restaurant and sit down to eat, it just doesn’t happen. We have to keep moving. So yes, I have some fact-based information telling me that road trips will not be the same if I decide to get a Scout…unless of course the Harvester saves the day.

 

[TreeKiller]

My road trips are a mix. I live in the West where there are big gaps between cities if you head east or SE. That said, the 350 miles on battery gets me easily to almost anyplace I want to go, even multi day offroading trips. I did get the Harvester just for those times we might take vacation from Seattle to California as it gives me the option to charge at lunch/dinner/hotel, but not really worry about making extra stops for charge other than ones I want to take anyway.

I am also excited about using the Harvester as a backup power source. My area loses power annoyingly often (at least 1-2x/year) and being able to hook the house to the truck, pull it out into the driveway and let the harvester run as needed to maintain power to the house (with a power transfer switch/etc) would be great. Also, I'd like it if the Scout would send me warnings via the app and turn the car off when it's down to a few gallons so I still have a way to go get things. I can tell you during a widespread power outage, it's often impossible to buy gas for miles, so I might have to drive 2 hours (20 miles) to get to an open station.

I appreciate this feedback and share your sentiments, with the added need that I tow another vehicle on a flat bed several times a year, and I think without the Harvester, I would find the range reduction when towing to be unacceptable.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

My road trips are a mix. I live in the West where there are big gaps between cities if you head east or SE. That said, the 350 miles on battery gets me easily to almost anyplace I want to go, even multi day offroading trips. I did get the Harvester just for those times we might take vacation from Seattle to California as it gives me the option to charge at lunch/dinner/hotel, but not really worry about making extra stops for charge other than ones I want to take anyway.

I am also excited about using the Harvester as a backup power source. My area loses power annoyingly often (at least 1-2x/year) and being able to hook the house to the truck, pull it out into the driveway and let the harvester run as needed to maintain power to the house (with a power transfer switch/etc) would be great. Also, I'd like it if the Scout would send me warnings via the app and turn the car off when it's down to a few gallons so I still have a way to go get things. I can tell you during a widespread power outage, it's often impossible to buy gas for miles, so I might have to drive 2 hours (20 miles) to get to an open station.

I hear where you’re coming from and I agree. It is not uncommon for the very rural parts of King County to lose power 8 to 12 times a year. Sometimes it’s brief, sometimes it takes a bit for them to get the repairs done. During the big snow or wind storms it’s not out of the realm of possibilities for power to be out 5 to 7 days. With those storms good luck finding a generator or gas if you’re unprepared. Even worse is you may not even be able to traverse the roadways without a chainsaw and some cutting skills due to the downed trees.

 

[R1TVT]

There certainly are not chargers everywhere in the areas I travel by any stretch of the imagination. I also tow on almost all road trips. I also try to get somewhere quickly as I’ve said before since time is money for us - we don’t dilly-dally and we rarely stop and eat.

Everyone has a different definition and expectations around road tripping. You just shared yours, and if I were being 100% honest with you and you were buying today, I would say don't do it - stick with a 2500 or whatever you tow with now. Even if the infrastructure starts to improve where you say there are no chargers, I wouldn't do it. Why? Well, because you state you don;t want to stop and you don't want to wait, and if you are towing, you are going to have no choice but to stop and to wait more often.

If things change between now and launch, and you get infrastructure and faster charging speeds and you determine that the implementation of the Harvest option works for your towing needs, then that might be a different story. Just my 02 cents from the perspective of someone that road trips with an EV truck.

{for reference, I do not tow on long road trips, I'm v. happpy to stop & take a break every 3-4 hours, and I have good charging options}

***FOOTNOTE - I personally find this type of trip way more relaxing and enjoyable than racing to a destination, but that's just me.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

Everyone has a different definition and expectations around road tripping. You just shared yours, and if I were being 100% honest with you and you were buying today, I would say don't do it - stick with a 2500 or whatever you tow with now. Even if the infrastructure starts to improve where you say there are no chargers, I wouldn't do it. Why? Well, because you state you don;t want to stop and you don't want to wait, and if you are towing, you are going to have no choice but to stop and to wait more often.

If things change between now and launch, and you get infrastructure and faster charging speeds and you determine that the implementation of the Harvest option works for your towing needs, then that might be a different story. Just my 02 cents from the perspective of someone that road trips with an EV truck.

{for reference, I do not tow on long road trips, I'm v. happpy to stop & take a break every 3-4 hours, and I have good charging options}

***FOOTNOTE - I personally find this type of trip way more relaxing and enjoyable than racing to a destination, but that's just me.

Thank you and I agree, much appreciated. Your points are definitely valid. Part of our problem is that vacation time comes at a premium and the other is that we have a lot of adventures on our to-do list. Another is that we cannot financially support the diverse amount of vehicles that we wish we could own so we need do-all Swiss Army Knife type of vehicles. Yet another is that a lot of these adventures have a lot of open space to travel to get to so it takes time. Trying to fit a 2500 mile road trip into a week or two doesn’t always make for a leisurely drive unfortunately.

Anyway, I’m still rooting for Scout Motors and I am hoping they’ll come to market with the home run that I think they will. It wouldn’t hurt for the charging infrastructure and my ability to take longer vacations to improve over the next couple of years.

Side question (I’m still trying to become more knowledgeable with all of this): where do you find yourself charging most (what network) on road trips? Or does it simply depend on where you’re going and whether or not all of the networks fall on that route? Or do you seek out specific networks and change your route accordingly? Secondary question if you don’t mind is - which network do you expect you’ll be charging your Scout at most often?

 

[chucchinchilla]

That is covered in the Rivian SW, and is configurable by charger speed, and includes auto-routing. I would assume Scout would just leverage what is available there, but of course, just speculation at this stage.

100%. Like you I wouldn't take them porting that amazing system over for granted hence me sticking that qualifier in my original statement. In the very least, one can hope VW Scout learns from Rivian on what great looks like and where they need to be.

 

[R1TVT]

Good questions - Yes, the answer is that "it depends", but luckily I now can avoid some of the "dreaded" EA stations more easily on road trips. They aren't always dreaded, but I think there have been more issues with EA stations than any other brand of station that I have visited. With more size and more locations, come more problems though, so take that with a grain of salt.

Before Rivian built-out the Rivian- specific RAN network in New England and the NE, I would regularly need to frequent EA stations when going in any direction. I have also used Chargepoint, EVgo, Tesla and a whole slew of lesser known chargers, but those are the big ones. While I have had to wait at EA stations for a charger to open-up, I have never had to wait at a Rivian RAN station, and I now have RAN chargers along my most common longer distance routes in VT, NH, MA, ME and RI (although I have never used either of the 2 RAN chargers in ME, and I just recently noticed that they are live on their map: https://rivian.com/experience/charging I have also used RAN chargers in DE and MD while road tripping south as far as Annapolis (with a mix of other chargers at hotels, or along the route).

For me, using a DCFC while skiing in the winter is my most common use case for Fast Charging. I like to get on it early, so I will literally wake up 30 minutes earlier than I normally would if I need to charge. My M.O. when skiing is to start a drive, charge-up at the RAN and eat BFAST at the same time, and then get to the MTN early. If I am resort skiing, I'm lucky to have multiple destinations with FREE L2 chargers in the lot... (I know that pisses some people off, but I love it! And ski areas have a vested interest in supporting EV's. Those L2 Chargers fill up quickly in the AM, so that's another reason to be the early bird. If I am going backcountry skiing, I just make sure to get enough juice to return back to a charger (once out of the woods). Hope that helps.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

Good questions - Yes, the answer is that "it depends", but luckily I now can avoid some of the "dreaded" EA stations more easily on road trips. They aren't always dreaded, but I think there have been more issues with EA stations than any other brand of station that I have visited. With more size and more locations, come more problems though, so take that with a grain of salt.

Before Rivian built-out the Rivian- specific RAN network in New England and the NE, I would regularly need to frequent EA stations when going in any direction. I have also used Chargepoint, EVgo, Tesla and a whole slew of lesser known chargers, but those are the big ones. While I have had to wait at EA stations for a charger to open-up, I have never had to wait at a Rivian RAN station, and I now have RAN chargers along my most common longer distance routes in VT, NH, MA, ME and RI (although I have never used either of the 2 RAN chargers in ME, and I just recently noticed that they are live on their map: https://rivian.com/experience/charging I have also used RAN chargers in DE and MD while road tripping south as far as Annapolis (with a mix of other chargers at hotels, or along the route).

For me, using a DCFC while skiing in the winter is my most common use case for Fast Charging. I like to get on it early, so I will literally wake up 30 minutes earlier than I normally would if I need to charge. My M.O. when skiing is to start a drive, charge-up at the RAN and eat BFAST at the same time, and then get to the MTN early. If I am resort skiing, I'm lucky to have multiple destinations with FREE L2 chargers in the lot... (I know that pisses some people off, but I love it! And ski areas have a vested interest in supporting EV's. Those L2 Chargers fill up quickly in the AM, so that's another reason to be the early bird. If I am going backcountry skiing, I just make sure to get enough juice to return back to a charger (once out of the woods). Hope that helps.

This is very helpful, thank you. Now I don’t know much about RAN (yes I’ll go research it tonight), but at the risk of asking a very stupid question - will you be able to use the RAN for a Scout? Or will you switch your charging routine with a Scout? Sorry for the lack of knowledge, but I have never seen a RAN charger and after a quick search I see they don’t exist out here (one or two states away for the closest ones depending which direction you go).

 

[Chaz26]

This is very helpful, thank you. Now I don’t know much about RAN (yes I’ll go research it tonight), but at the risk of asking a very stupid question - will you be able to use the RAN for a Scout? Or will you switch your charging routine with a Scout? Sorry for the lack of knowledge, but I have never seen a RAN charger and after a quick search I see they don’t exist out here (one or two states away for the closest ones depending which direction you go).

They are currently only available to Rivians but I imagine they’ll be open to Scout and others by the time it is released.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

Thank you and I agree, much appreciated. Your points are definitely valid. Part of our problem is that vacation time comes at a premium and the other is that we have a lot of adventures on our to-do list. Another is that we cannot financially support the diverse amount of vehicles that we wish we could own so we need do-all Swiss Army Knife type of vehicles. Yet another is that a lot of these adventures have a lot of open space to travel to get to so it takes time. Trying to fit a 2500 mile road trip into a week or two doesn’t always make for a leisurely drive unfortunately.

Anyway, I’m still rooting for Scout Motors and I am hoping they’ll come to market with the home run that I think they will. It wouldn’t hurt for the charging infrastructure and my ability to take longer vacations to improve over the next couple of years.

Side question (I’m still trying to become more knowledgeable with all of this): where do you find yourself charging most (what network) on road trips? Or does it simply depend on where you’re going and whether or not all of the networks fall on that route? Or do you seek out specific networks and change your route accordingly? Secondary question if you don’t mind is - which network do you expect you’ll be charging your Scout at most often?

I have a hunch you and I are in the same boat on a lot of fronts. I’d love to have multiple vehicles for different uses, but the budget doesn’t allow for that. Vacation time is also a premium, and in my line of work taking two weeks off at a time normally isn’t an option.

As a non EV owner here, I’m trying to soak up as much information as I can, both Scout specific and EV specific. I’m optimistic that the Harvester Range Extender feature will help ease a lot of concerns. Had Scout not offered the Harvester I would have enjoyed the reveal and then never looked at Scout again. Instead I’m a member with a reservation.

I also appreciate all the different angles and opinions other members are bringing to the conversation. There’s a lot of knowledge and opinions here on the forum, and I’m just trying to learn and ask questions.

 

[R1TVT]

will you be able to use the RAN for a Scout?

TBD, but I'm guessing that with VW's investment, and with Scout working with Rivian, they will open these stations up and add more Rivian "Outpost" stations too. Their are now 2 Rivian Ouposts I believe - 1 in Yosemite and 1 at Joshua Tree.

They are currently only available to Rivians but I imagine they’ll be open to Scout and others by the time it is released.

Actually, the Rivian Outpost outside of Joshua Tree is open to any EV, and has 12 900-V chargers. Check this out:

Rivian’s new Joshua Tree outpost is what EV charging should be

A look inside Rivian’s new charging station

www.theverge.com

I think this is the future, BUT in order to make these payback, they will need to be busy and have lots of EV's charging.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

TBD, but I'm guessing that with VW's investment, and with Scout working with Rivian, they will open these stations up and add more Rivian "Outpost" stations too. Their are now 2 Rivian Ouposts I believe - 1 in Yosemite and 1 at Joshua Tree.


Actually, the Rivian Outpost outside of Joshua Tree is open to any EV, and has 12 900-V chargers. Check this out:

Rivian’s new Joshua Tree outpost is what EV charging should be

A look inside Rivian’s new charging station

www.theverge.com

I think this is the future, BUT in order to make these payback, they will need to be busy and have lots of EV's charging.

I wish Rivian would open their Kingman, AZ station to all EVs, it would be full most of the day. Kingman is at a junction between two busy freeways. EA only has four posts there and the NACS 14-post station only has 10 or so working at any given time. Adding RAN's 6 plugs into the pool sure would help.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

I have a hunch you and I are in the same boat on a lot of fronts. I’d love to have multiple vehicles for different uses, but the budget doesn’t allow for that. Vacation time is also a premium, and in my line of work taking two weeks off at a time normally isn’t an option.

As a non EV owner here, I’m trying to soak up as much information as I can, both Scout specific and EV specific. I’m optimistic that the Harvester Range Extender feature will help ease a lot of concerns. Had Scout not offered the Harvester I would have enjoyed the reveal and then never looked at Scout again. Instead I’m a member with a reservation.

I also appreciate all the different angles and opinions other members are bringing to the conversation. There’s a lot of knowledge and opinions here on the forum, and I’m just trying to learn and ask questions.

I’d say you’re correct, seems like we’re in the same boat on the same river!

 

[Chuckles]

TBD, but I'm guessing that with VW's investment, and with Scout working with Rivian, they will open these stations up and add more Rivian "Outpost" stations too. Their are now 2 Rivian Ouposts I believe - 1 in Yosemite and 1 at Joshua Tree.


Actually, the Rivian Outpost outside of Joshua Tree is open to any EV, and has 12 900-V chargers. Check this out:

Rivian’s new Joshua Tree outpost is what EV charging should be

A look inside Rivian’s new charging station

www.theverge.com

I think this is the future, BUT in order to make these payback, they will need to be busy and have

The VW/Rivian agreement is about software and electrical architecture. Using charging stations would probably cost extra money. Since Scout will be able to access Tesla superchargers, is the Rivian network even necessary?