Learn from the Bronco

[Chaparral]

Ford got a lot right with the Bronco. The extremely high demand and long wait times for the Bronco, despite it underpowered, inefficient and polluting engines are indicative of this.

The Scout needs to be a real off-roader that goes toe to toe with a Wrangler or Bronco. That means at least matching the off road capability as well as having a removable roof and doors.

Keep it simple. The Bronco’s removable roof that also allows for roof bars is almost perfect, and versatile with multiple roof options. There’s no need to give electric cars futuristic styling, that all looks bad, just keep it classic like Ford did with the Bronco.

Keeping it simple will also help to keep the price competitive with the Bronco and Wrangler.

If the design team are not off road enthusiasts that also understand the after-market for customizing off roaders they may as well just give up. For example, sensor placement needs to take into account that off road enthusiasts are going to switch out the bumper with some after-market one. Get this stuff right and they will love the Scout.

The design team needs to thoroughly understand for example what makes the Bronco a great off roader and the Defender a poor one. This would include the fact that the Defender has very high pressure, rather low profile tires on large rims that do not perform well when aired down - small wheels with big tires and a bead-lock option are the way to go even if they don’t appeal to city buyers.

If you want to know what to make just watch a ton of YouTube videos of Wrangler and Bronco enthusiasts nit-picking about how their vehicles could be slightly better.

If only the Bronco was electric I would buy one in a heartbeat. There’s no sign that Ford are making an electric Bronco. That gives Scout a window of opportunity to take a market that has not yet been served by electric. Rivian have largely failed to serve this market because they were obsessed with competing against Tesla when they should have been focussed on the actual off road world.

 

[Eswanson]

I really, really like the look of the new two door Bronco! So much like an early Scout 80/800. They are totally under powered and really poor MPG for all the progress we have made. I have an 07 Toyota FJ Cruiser that is close enough that it makes no sense to swap vehicles.

If you can bring the tech to the heritage then it's game on.

 

[Chaparral]

Carpet. The Bronco and some other off-roaders have rubberized floors with drain plugs. Carpet is very difficult to clean, all vehicles should ditch it in favor of rubberized floors. I know it dampens cabin noise but ’easy to clean’ should be a much higher priority and there are other ways to reduce cabin noise. The question of “how do I clean this?” is a pragmatic design consideration that industrial designers often overlook. The designers of an off-roader need to ask this question over and over again. An off road vehicle is often likely to get a thick layer of dust on internal surfaces and needs to be easy to clean inside and out.

 

[Chaparral]

Winch. Ford offered a factory installed winch for the Bronco Everglades but the design was not thought through. The heavy winch on the front messed with the balance of the vehicle so it could only be offered on vehicles with the smaller, lighter engine. The Scout should have an optional winch but it needs to be better designed, not just a after-market add-on but integrated in a way that adds as little weight as possible and perhaps with the heavy motor mounted further back.

 

[J Alynn]

I really, really like the look of the new two door Bronco! So much like an early Scout 80/800. They are totally under powered and really poor MPG for all the progress we have made. I have an 07 Toyota FJ Cruiser that is close enough that it makes no sense to swap vehicles.

If you can bring the tech to the heritage then it's game on.

My daughters has the 2.7 engine and the power is great. On Econ mode she’s getting between 19-20 mpg on local driving which isn’t bad at all for a box on wheels

 

[J Alynn]

Carpet. The Bronco and some other off-roaders have rubberized floors with drain plugs. Carpet is very difficult to clean, all vehicles should ditch it in favor of rubberized floors. I know it dampens cabin noise but ’easy to clean’ should be a much higher priority and there are other ways to reduce cabin noise. The question of “how do I clean this?” is a pragmatic design consideration that industrial designers often overlook. The designers of an off-roader need to ask this question over and over again. An off road vehicle is often likely to get a thick layer of dust on internal surfaces and needs to be easy to clean inside and out.

I won’t disagree with your point of view but as a Scout lover and someone who will do VERY little off-roading I prefer industrial carpet to kill road noise-there isn’t enough room in the frame cavities to insulate out the noise. As said in some very early threads on the design thoughts the suggestion was made to have a base Scout set for off-roading to allow add-ons, etc…
The hard part on forums like this and Bronco6G is the majority of us are enthusiasts (many off-roaders, a large group of EV’ers but not all of us on either of those fronts) and we want the extremes. My hunch is 85% of buyers will NOT be enthusiasts but who just want a nice SUV that checks the box that they care about the environment and has a solid authenticity/story behind it. Those buyers won’t care about our “extreme” desires.
As many of us commented early on, Scout should take a whole new approach, albeit somewhat more pricey and allow buyers to choose from 2-3 base levels (off-road/EV and luxury-vintage character) then let us add individual features to get what each buyer wants-not 4 upgrade packages that cost $1000’s just to get 2-3 desired features.

 

[lefty]

J Alynn - you hit the nail squarely on the head. I was just about to reply but you did it for me

 

[Chaparral]

I won’t disagree with your point of view but as a Scout lover and someone who will do VERY little off-roading I prefer industrial carpet to kill road noise-there isn’t enough room in the frame cavities to insulate out the noise. As said in some very early threads on the design thoughts the suggestion was made to have a base Scout set for off-roading to allow add-ons, etc…
The hard part on forums like this and Bronco6G is the majority of us are enthusiasts (many off-roaders, a large group of EV’ers but not all of us on either of those fronts) and we want the extremes. My hunch is 85% of buyers will NOT be enthusiasts but who just want a nice SUV that checks the box that they care about the environment and has a solid authenticity/story behind it. Those buyers won’t care about our “extreme” desires.
As many of us commented early on, Scout should take a whole new approach, albeit somewhat more pricey and allow buyers to choose from 2-3 base levels (off-road/EV and luxury-vintage character) then let us add individual features to get what each buyer wants-not 4 upgrade packages that cost $1000’s just to get 2-3 desired features.

Thank you for your comment. I work in the audio industry and my job has touched on acoustic damping. As a kid I disassembled lots of cars and remember being surprised at just how much weight is added by carpet. Some of the best acoustic absorbing materials are lightweight. I suspect that if engineers were to look at acoustic damping per unit weight they would discover that carpet is an inefficient solution to the problem. When it comes to blocking noise from outside the cabin a barrier is needed that does not require the porosity of carpet. A rubberized internal surface will reflect more sound inside the vehicle but may be just as good as carpet at blocking road noise from outside. With an electric car you already lose the noise produced by gas engines. Carpet is terrible for anyone with pets or allergies. Most people these days have removed it from their homes. If they don’t want it in their homes were they walk around in slippers why would they want it in cars where they get in and out with dirty shoes? People just haven’t stopped to think about it. It makes no sense.

Being able to easily clean something is not an “extreme” request. That should be a high priority for the design of anything and is an obvious failure in many aspects of the design of most vehicles.

I can’t disagree more about what the Scout should offer with respect to actual off road use. This should be the priority. This is where the market has not yet been served by electric. When I moved from the city the a more rural area my perspective on SUVs completely changed. Here most SUVs actually go out on dirt even if the driver is just getting to a winery or something. If someone wants a luxury electric SUV they already have many options but when it comes to the most off road capable vehicles (like Bronco and Wrangler) there is nothing. Does the heritage of the Scout suggest it should be turned into a luxury vehicle, designed for city use? No. The Scout should be all about versatility and pragmatism, a working man’s vehicle, a roadtrip into the mountains vehicle, a ranchers vehicle, an off-road enthusiasts vehicle.

 

[J Alynn]

Thank you for your comment. I work in the audio industry and my job has touched on acoustic damping. As a kid I disassembled lots of cars and remember being surprised at just how much weight is added by carpet. Some of the best acoustic absorbing materials are lightweight. I suspect that if engineers were to look at acoustic damping per unit weight they would discover that carpet is an inefficient solution to the problem. When it comes to blocking noise from outside the cabin a barrier is needed that does not require the porosity of carpet. A rubberized internal surface will reflect more sound inside the vehicle but may be just as good as carpet at blocking road noise from outside. With an electric car you already lose the noise produced by gas engines. Carpet is terrible for anyone with pets or allergies. Most people these days have removed it from their homes. If they don’t want it in their homes were they walk around in slippers why would they want it in cars where they get in and out with dirty shoes? People just haven’t stopped to think about it. It makes no sense.

Being able to easily clean something is not an “extreme” request. That should be a high priority for the design of anything and is an obvious failure in many aspects of the design of most vehicles.

I can’t disagree more about what the Scout should offer with respect to actual off road use. This should be the priority. This is where the market has not yet been served by electric. When I moved from the city the a more rural area my perspective on SUVs completely changed. Here most SUVs actually go out on dirt even if the driver is just getting to a winery or something. If someone wants a luxury electric SUV they already have many options but when it comes to the most off road capable vehicles (like Bronco and Wrangler) there is nothing. Does the heritage of the Scout suggest it should be turned into a luxury vehicle, designed for city use? No. The Scout should be all about versatility and pragmatism, a working man’s vehicle, a roadtrip into the mountains vehicle, a ranchers vehicle, an off-road enthusiasts vehicle.

Appreciate your insight from your career perspective. As an architect I’ll challenge carpet vs hard surface for allergies though, especially since my daughter has asthma and numerous environmental allergies. I spent 9 years early in career doing school architecture. Studies actually show that carpet is better if cleaned regularly. It traps particles vs a hard/smooth surface where every step you take stirs up the particles and creates more float time in the air. I’m out of the school side of design these days but schools, businesses, etc. are using a lot of carpet tiles to solve for staining while benefitting with allergies and impact sound issues but hard surfaces in houses especially and places where kids spend time is actually worse for allergies.
That said, every car I’ve bought-car or SUV I always get all weather floor mats so I can clean easier. Sound dealing is a very difficult thing to solve. A lot of my work now is apartments and living spaces over commercial spaces and it is tough.
Construction is certainly easier to solve for than vehicle construction.
I’ve often though an indoor/outdoor carpet lining with a thin layer of absorbing gel material could be a solution.
All that said, if sound can be controlled and a textured rubber surface (similar to textured dashboard surfaces) I could easily get behind that. Then you have practical and good looking and everyone wins. Audi does an awesome job with the look of their textured surfaces so Scout has sourcing to work from.
As for luxury I should have picked a better word. Maybe stylish or Heritage feel. Bronco did a pretty good job-my daughter’s is great but a more throw back interior would be a win. They did great with the dash textures and found a decent middle ground. I think Scout needs to push more to the boundary edges so it appeals to those of us that have memories but still appeals to a millennial or younger demographic who wants something unique. In my daily design world we use the term “collected and curated”. Something that feels built over time and I think Scout could succeed with that same thinking. Look how unique every old Scout is you still see on the road today. Now as many of us said early on-avoid the cheap molded foam/plastic parts and use real metals/leather/fabrics/woods and you have something authentic. Nobody buying a Scout should want vegan seat covers and soy-based Sun visors-if you get what I mean. This is about heritage, not just one of 200,000 SUV’s pumped through an assembly line. Sorry for going a bit off tangent.

 

[Chaparral]

Appreciate your insight from your career perspective. As an architect I’ll challenge carpet vs hard surface for allergies though, especially since my daughter has asthma and numerous environmental allergies. I spent 9 years early in career doing school architecture. Studies actually show that carpet is better if cleaned regularly. It traps particles vs a hard/smooth surface where every step you take stirs up the particles and creates more float time in the air. I’m out of the school side of design these days but schools, businesses, etc. are using a lot of carpet tiles to solve for staining while benefitting with allergies and impact sound issues but hard surfaces in houses especially and places where kids spend time is actually worse for allergies.
That said, every car I’ve bought-car or SUV I always get all weather floor mats so I can clean easier. Sound dealing is a very difficult thing to solve. A lot of my work now is apartments and living spaces over commercial spaces and it is tough.
Construction is certainly easier to solve for than vehicle construction.
I’ve often though an indoor/outdoor carpet lining with a thin layer of absorbing gel material could be a solution.
All that said, if sound can be controlled and a textured rubber surface (similar to textured dashboard surfaces) I could easily get behind that. Then you have practical and good looking and everyone wins. Audi does an awesome job with the look of their textured surfaces so Scout has sourcing to work from.
As for luxury I should have picked a better word. Maybe stylish or Heritage feel. Bronco did a pretty good job-my daughter’s is great but a more throw back interior would be a win. They did great with the dash textures and found a decent middle ground. I think Scout needs to push more to the boundary edges so it appeals to those of us that have memories but still appeals to a millennial or younger demographic who wants something unique. In my daily design world we use the term “collected and curated”. Something that feels built over time and I think Scout could succeed with that same thinking. Look how unique every old Scout is you still see on the road today. Now as many of us said early on-avoid the cheap molded foam/plastic parts and use real metals/leather/fabrics/woods and you have something authentic. Nobody buying a Scout should want vegan seat covers and soy-based Sun visors-if you get what I mean. This is about heritage, not just one of 200,000 SUV’s pumped through an assembly line. Sorry for going a bit off tangent.

Interesting. I makes sense that walking across a hard floor will kick up more dust than a carpet. However, what really kicked off my allergies when we had carpet was not walking across it but rather the process of vacuuming it which seems to fill the air with fine particles.

 

[LastDayScout]

Carpet. The Bronco and some other off-roaders have rubberized floors with drain plugs. Carpet is very difficult to clean, all vehicles should ditch it in favor of rubberized floors. I know it dampens cabin noise but ’easy to clean’ should be a much higher priority and there are other ways to reduce cabin noise. The question of “how do I clean this?” is a pragmatic design consideration that industrial designers often overlook. The designers of an off-roader need to ask this question over and over again. An off road vehicle is often likely to get a thick layer of dust on internal surfaces and needs to be easy to clean inside and out.

I’ve often thought if you must have carpet, why not marine carpet?

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I’ve often thought if you must have carpet, why not marine carpet?

Textiles are rapidly evolving these days and are often using more sustainable and responsibly sourced materials. The new ID Buzz (VW's Microbus EV) has seat fabric, headliner and carpets made from recycled plastic bottles for example.

 

[J Alynn]

Textiles are rapidly evolving these days and are often using more sustainable and responsibly sourced materials. The new ID Buzz (VW's Microbus EV) has seat fabric, headliner and carpets made from recycled plastic bottles for example.

Still think Scout needs real leather-and then fabrics (plaids) in the recycled material. Vegans can by Teslas

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Still think Scout needs real leather-and then fabrics (plaids) in the recycled material. Vegans can by Teslas

LOL - you would be surprised. There are new non-leather materials that wear better than leather (for example) that are really good. Plus the recycled fibers can be died into splendid plaids as you pointed out. We'll be good.

 

[LastDayScout]

LOL - you would be surprised. There are new non-leather materials that wear better than leather (for example) that are really good. Plus the recycled fibers can be died into splendid plaids as you pointed out. We'll be good.

I love the smell and feel of leather. But, this is another one of those things that we collectively need to move away from to better our environmental impacts. I’m just glad we can have a vehicle like the scout that is built in a sustainable manner with sustainable materials.

 

[Spiegelglatt]

My 2007 Touareg has real leather and my 2008 has synthetic or whatever. The real has a nice smell while the other can be cleaned.

Our 2019 Atlas has fabric… in fact we got the “S” (base model but with VR6, 4Motion and hitch BECAUSE it had fabric. However the fabric is cheap feeling…where did quality fabrics go? Fabrics are so nice in hot and cold…plus have more textures and color options. Anyways leather (ish) stuff is nice-but don’t forget about the real fabric lovers. I don’t think I would like plastic fabric…that is what the atlas feels like. In fact I am pretty sure the “stitching” was made by just heating / melting a pattern in it.

****edit***
To risk being flamed I will admit it: I miss velour seats: they were soft and comfy and lasted forever…my 16v Gli had 300k when I finally got tired of waiting for it to die and sold it and I had to pull the seat fabric off and have fitted to a new seat frame (drivers broke). If you could make something like that texture breathable stain resistant and just as soft it would be amazing.

 

[JohnBills]

Being mindful of the sensors in the bumpers and fenders is a great point. Does the F-150 Lightning have a solution for this for people who attach snowplows or change the front bumper entirely?

 

[Sothenwhat]

A new topic for suggestions -- Configuration of the pickup. The US market is flooded with HUGE, 4-door, crew-cab, big-bed pickups. I'd love to see the Scout pickup with a regular, 2-door cab (with a small space behind the seats for stuff and to provide room to lean the seatbacks back a bit), and a short bed. Overall length no more than 180", similar to the early Toyota Tacomas. IH Scouts were always small, and should stay that way. This would provide a state-of-the-technology option for fans of the vintage Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40/43/45s, which most off-road and SUV enthusiasts consider the gold standard -- more appealing than today's Broncos and Jeeps. Why not shoot for the best, especially since no one else is currently in that space?

 

[JohnBills]

A new topic for suggestions -- Configuration of the pickup. The US market is flooded with HUGE, 4-door, crew-cab, big-bed pickups. I'd love to see the Scout pickup with a regular, 2-door cab (with a small space behind the seats for stuff and to provide room to lean the seatbacks back a bit), and a short bed. Overall length no more than 180", similar to the early Toyota Tacomas. IH Scouts were always small, and should stay that way. This would provide a state-of-the-technology option for fans of the vintage Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40/43/45s, which most off-road and SUV enthusiasts consider the gold standard -- more appealing than today's Broncos and Jeeps. Why not shoot for the best, especially since no one else is currently in that space?

I think the world needs smaller vehicles in general. So this would be great. I canceled my R1S pre-order because I realized it was way more vehicle than I really needed even though it's amazing. The Ford Maverick is killing it because there is still demand for the small but utility-focused vehicle. Plus it's way easier to get into the garage or park it.

 

[Harumph]

Ford did get the Bronco right. Most of us spend a majority of our driving time on-the-road getting to our off-road destination.
Scout should build on the capability of the Bronco by following the concept and improving where possible.

Trade-offs to avoid
- sacrificing road driving manners for off-road "capability"
- sacrificing off-road "capability" for towing numbers