Harvester Talk: Q&A

[CarTechGeek]

For those wanting the Harvester to power the drivetrain, go buy a hybrid or a PHEV.

What do you mean "Harvester to power the drivetrain". With a physical mechanical connection? No one is really asking for that. What some are asking for is that it generate sufficient electrical power, to match drivetrain needs at highway speeds (and some beyond that).

There aren't much in the way of PHEV Pickup options. I guess you could count the Gladiator 4XE, but it's has VERY short range, and the implementation leave a bit to be desired.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

For those wanting the Harvester to power the drivetrain, go buy a hybrid or a PHEV. I have a Ford F-150 PowerBoost and that's exactly how it works. 100% battery at (very) low speed and (very) short distances, gas kicks on at highway speeds, when more power is needed (towing) and to charge the EV battery as they are depleted. It gets 1mpg better gas mileage than the non-hybrid version, lol. In other words, that setup just doesn't prove sufficiently beneficial. I will spend more in maintenance, batteries, and a whole host of other bugs than I'll ever get back. It's the reason I want a pure EV with a gas generator that only serves as a generator. It makes the EV architecture the sole focus, with some added reassurance of a generator to help when no plugs are available. Broken down to the most simplistic elements, Scout is building an EV and supplying a gas-powered generator with every purchase to charge it. Granted it's gonna be considerably nicer than your standard, backyard generator, and will have its own host of systems, software, control, design, etc. But at the end of the day, the Harvester is a portable battery charger, that's it.

I hadn’t thought of it exactly like that before, thank you. I still hope the Harvester can somehow provide enough power to the battery to keep going on gas though. “Gas and go” if you will…for those long trips, towing duty, or way-out-in-the-bush adventures. Holding out hope that can be a reality.

 

[LastDayScout]

This thread is an exercise in patience to say the least. Maybe the Harvester will be a 345 V8 mated to a Borg Warner manual (but not synchromesh) that is mated to the new fangled battrie set up. In a nod to nostalgia it will feature cork gaskets, points ignition and thermoquad carburetor. But, in a modern eco twist the leaking oil will be Harvested and used in an oil bath air filter. While running and generating power it will burn about 12 gallons per hour. Do we want electric choke, or do we want a pull cable?

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

This thread is an exercise in patience to say the least. Maybe the Harvester will be a 345 V8 mated to a Borg Warner manual (but not synchromesh) that is mated to the new fangled battrie set up. In a nod to nostalgia it will feature cork gaskets, points ignition and thermoquad carburetor. But, in a modern eco twist the leaking oil will be Harvested and used in an oil bath air filter. While running and generating power it will burn about 12 gallons per hour. Do we want electric choke, or do we want a pull cable?

You win. We can now end this thread until official details come from Scout Motors. You’ve covered all bases.

I vote pull cable.

 

[MidwestCastAway]

What do you mean "Harvester to power the drivetrain". With a physical mechanical connection? No one is really asking for that. What some are asking for is that it generate sufficient electrical power, to match drivetrain needs at highway speeds (and some beyond that).

There aren't much in the way of PHEV Pickup options. I guess you could count the Gladiator 4XE, but it's has VERY short range, and the implementation leave a bit to be desired.

This is what prompted my post: "I hope Scout follows the Ramcharger model and not try to refill the battery alone, but allow the generator to send power directly to the electric motors"

I guess all I'm saying is that if people want a hybrid, go buy a hybrid. The Scout is an EV.

 

[J Alynn]

This thread is an exercise in patience to say the least. Maybe the Harvester will be a 345 V8 mated to a Borg Warner manual (but not synchromesh) that is mated to the new fangled battrie set up. In a nod to nostalgia it will feature cork gaskets, points ignition and thermoquad carburetor. But, in a modern eco twist the leaking oil will be Harvested and used in an oil bath air filter. While running and generating power it will burn about 12 gallons per hour. Do we want electric choke, or do we want a pull cable?

WTF! Calm down man-it’s just a forum

 

[TigerScout]

Not sure if this has been posted in this thread already or not. I'm not inclined to go back and read all the posts. However, there are Chinese companies already using range extending motors (generators) on their SUV's. Li Motors and their L9. It is as small, 3 row SUV vehicle. These ranges seem really high to me but here they are below. I am willing bet the Harvester motor will be a 4 cylinder turbo as well. Hopefully not one that has to rev to 8k to be effective. I'd actually prefer them to be non-turbo if possible. The heat and complexity they introduce to the system can be a real drag on longevity and maintenance requirements.

"The Li L9 is outfitted with a dual-motor, all-wheel drive system that delivers a 330 kW (442.5 hp) and 620 Nm (457.2 lb.ft). This setup allows the vehicle to go from 0 to 62 mph in just 5.3 seconds. The powertrain includes a 44.5 kWh NCM lithium battery, which supports an extended electric driving range, achieving 215 kilometers under the CLTC standard and 180 kilometers under the WLTC standard. The engine (generator) is a 1.5-liter, four-cylinder, turbo-charged engine, which solely works to charge the battery. (My NOTE: Apparently it has a 65l fuel tank.)

The Li L9 can cover distances of up to 1,315 km (817 mi) in CLTC mode and 1,100 km (683.5 mi) in WLTC mode. It also features the capability to supply up to 3.5 kW for external use (V2L)."

 

[CarTechGeek]

This is what prompted my post: "I hope Scout follows the Ramcharger model and not try to refill the battery alone, but allow the generator to send power directly to the electric motors"

I guess all I'm saying is that if people want a hybrid, go buy a hybrid. The Scout is an EV.

The Ramcharger is an EREV, just like the Harvester equipped Terra. It also has around the same EV only range, and the gas engine only powers the generator.

It's logically the exact same setup.

The main thing is that we know how powerful the Generator is in the Ramcharger, but the harvester Generator output is an unknown, and people are hoping it's adequate for driving with the battery run down.

 

[R1TVT]

The Ramcharger (like the Terra) is available for reservation-only, and it is not for sale today. It is essentially still a concept vehicle, at least until you can configure one, and order one. Unlike the Terra, The Ramcharger's physical setup is very different. It includes a large 3.6L Pentastar V6 in the traditonal engine compartment, which will send power to the generator. The battery in the Ramcharger is a liquid-cooled 92 kilowatt hour pack, and in the Ramcharger, there is no frunk (because there is a huge V6 up front). For context, the Ramcharger and the new VW Buzz electric minivan have almost identical battery packs. Meanwhile, over in the pure EV truck world, the Cybertruck launched with a 123kWh pack, the Rivian R1T launched with a 135kWh pack, the Hummer with a 205kWh pack, and the Silverado with a 200kWh pack. Truck shape, dims and curb weight all make a significant impact on power consumption and performance in each of these trucks, and so it is no surprise that the Ramcharger needs that V6 and that 91kWh pack with the generator - because it is a truck (not a small. lightweight car).

There seem to be 2 groups here "theorizing" about the Harvester and its implementation (if my reading comprehension is accurate):

GROUP 1
There are some people here that are hoping the Harvester generator will output enough energy for continuous driving (when you have a fully depleted battery, or after 500 miles when you ONLY ADD GASOLINE). I'm not sure how well that would work if you were towing a trailer, and just started running the small generator (with no battery power), but this group alluded to what exists in the market today, and that this MUST to be the way Scout will implement their range extender (bc that is what has already been done in smaller cars). There may be 2 challenges to this premise. The first being that this has not yet been implemented in a full-sized truck or SUV (at least as far as I know), and the second being that the Harvester range extender will not be located in a large engine compartment, and will therefore need to be much more compact, fitting into a smaller space, allowing the Scout to retain its frunk. I believe the battery pack for harvester option will be larger than what has been speculated... The speculation has been focused around the pure EV range number only, but I wouldn't be surprised if the pack was designed to be larger and hold more reserve energy to help hit the 500 mile mark with the small Harvester extender (just my own personal speculation though).

GROUP 2
There seems to be another group of people here that are inclined to believe that 500 miles is your range LIMIT for both battery and fuel consumption by the Harvester. So, once both your energy stores are depleted and you have hit ~500 miles, you may be required to PUMP more electrons DIRECTLY into the battery pack before going anywhere. This group might be wondering why anyone would want to drive around in a full-sized, performance-inhibited, giant truck using only a small generator (the Harvester), and if that is even possible without energy in the battery pack, if it would be good for such a small generator, and if it would even be safe on a HWY or when towing a boat (for example). This group is inclined to think that the Scout was revealed as an EV with a range-extending generator that is used to charge the battery pack - not mechanically skip the battery and send energy through the inverter to the electric motors. This 2nd group believes the that the generator will create electricity that will run through the inverter, DIRECTLY into the battery pack. Therefore the truck would always have the same performance characteristics, and would not be limited by anything other than the batteries state of charge (SOC). The ONLY time you would be performance limited in this scenario would be if you ran your battery pack to a critically low SOC. Then the truck would begin to proactively slow and shut down (with adequate warnings) prior to stopping. In an EV experience, the truck would perform equally well at 100% full SOC as it would at 10% SOC.

The second group also seems OK with the concept of running for 500 miles, then essentially stopping for enough TIME to power the battery pack with the harvester alone (assuming that the stop included a gasoline top-off). Of course at 500 miles you could also simply plug-in to an EV charger (just like any other EV would do after hitting its range limit). This group also seems to believe that the Harvester would be great for the purposes of camping in remote areas off the grid (for example), whereby you could bring jerry jugs and re-charge overnight, IF the Harvester were implemented in such a way that this was possible.

I have no dog in this hunt, since I am perfectly content with 350 miles range, and like the simplicity of the pure EV.

 

[Marlowman]

Scout models with the range extender (Harvester option) give you an estimated 150 miles of pure battery range and 500+ miles total when the engine kicks on.

Our pure BEV Scout models will have estimated 350 miles of range.

Since we have a few years before production starts, our teams will continue on development and we will be able to give more accurate figures

@Jamie@ScoutMotors - does the Scout with the Harvester have 350 miles of range + 150 with the Harvester OR is is 150 EV range and you need the Harvester to get the other 350?

 

[CarTechGeek]

@Jamie@ScoutMotors - does the Scout with the Harvester have 350 miles of range + 150 with the Harvester OR is is 150 EV range and you need the Harvester to get the other 350?

The latter. 150 miles of EV only range, followed by 350 with the range extender.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

The Ramcharger (like the Terra) is available for reservation-only, and it is not for sale today. It is essentially still a concept vehicle, at least until you can configure one, and order one. Unlike the Terra, The Ramcharger's physical setup is very different. It includes a large 3.6L Pentastar V6 in the traditonal engine compartment, which will send power to the generator. The battery in the Ramcharger is a liquid-cooled 92 kilowatt hour pack, and in the Ramcharger, there is no frunk (because there is a huge V6 up front). For context, the Ramcharger and the new VW Buzz electric minivan have almost identical battery packs. Meanwhile, over in the pure EV truck world, the Cybertruck launched with a 123kWh pack, the Rivian R1T launched with a 135kWh pack, the Hummer with a 205kWh pack, and the Silverado with a 200kWh pack. Truck shape, dims and curb weight all make a significant impact on power consumption and performance in each of these trucks, and so it is no surprise that the Ramcharger needs that V6 and that 91kWh pack with the generator - because it is a truck (not a small. lightweight car).

There seem to be 2 groups here "theorizing" about the Harvester and its implementation (if my reading comprehension is accurate):

GROUP 1
There are some people here that are hoping the Harvester generator will output enough energy for continuous driving (when you have a fully depleted battery, or after 500 miles when you ONLY ADD GASOLINE). I'm not sure how well that would work if you were towing a trailer, and just started running the small generator (with no battery power), but this group alluded to what exists in the market today, and that this MUST to be the way Scout will implement their range extender (bc that is what has already been done in smaller cars). There may be 2 challenges to this premise. The first being that this has not yet been implemented in a full-sized truck or SUV (at least as far as I know), and the second being that the Harvester range extender will not be located in a large engine compartment, and will therefore need to be much more compact, fitting into a smaller space, allowing the Scout to retain its frunk. I believe the battery pack for harvester option will be larger than what has been speculated... The speculation has been focused around the pure EV range number only, but I wouldn't be surprised if the pack was designed to be larger and hold more reserve energy to help hit the 500 mile mark with the small Harvester extender (just my own personal speculation though).

GROUP 2
There seems to be another group of people here that are inclined to believe that 500 miles is your range LIMIT for both battery and fuel consumption by the Harvester. So, once both your energy stores are depleted and you have hit ~500 miles, you may be required to PUMP more electrons DIRECTLY into the battery pack before going anywhere. This group might be wondering why anyone would want to drive around in a full-sized, performance-inhibited, giant truck using only a small generator (the Harvester), and if that is even possible without energy in the battery pack, if it would be good for such a small generator, and if it would even be safe on a HWY or when towing a boat (for example). This group is inclined to think that the Scout was revealed as an EV with a range-extending generator that is used to charge the battery pack - not mechanically skip the battery and send energy through the inverter to the electric motors. This 2nd group believes the that the generator will create electricity that will run through the inverter, DIRECTLY into the battery pack. Therefore the truck would always have the same performance characteristics, and would not be limited by anything other than the batteries state of charge (SOC). The ONLY time you would be performance limited in this scenario would be if you ran your battery pack to a critically low SOC. Then the truck would begin to proactively slow and shut down (with adequate warnings) prior to stopping. In an EV experience, the truck would perform equally well at 100% full SOC as it would at 10% SOC.

The second group also seems OK with the concept of running for 500 miles, then essentially stopping for enough TIME to power the battery pack with the harvester alone (assuming that the stop included a gasoline top-off). Of course at 500 miles you could also simply plug-in to an EV charger (just like any other EV would do after hitting its range limit). This group also seems to believe that the Harvester would be great for the purposes of camping in remote areas off the grid (for example), whereby you could bring jerry jugs and re-charge overnight, IF the Harvester were implemented in such a way that this was possible.

I have no dog in this hunt, since I am perfectly content with 350 miles range, and like the simplicity of the pure EV.

I think you’re pretty spot on here between the two groups.

 

[eddiet1212]

WTF! Calm down man-it’s just a forum

Lol

 

[Chaz26]

I'm going for the full EV but in terms of how the Harvester will work, I'd be interested in what happens in the following scenario:

You're driving on a road trip, the battery is just going from 1% to 0% and you are just about to run out of gas (or already have depending on the order in which things empty on the Harvester). You pull into a gas station and fill up to full. What happens next:

1) The Harvester has enough power for the battery so you can leave immediately and carry on driving like normal until the gas runs out again.
2) The Harvester doesn't have enough power to keep the battery going at 1% for very long so you will also need to charge up somewhere.
3) There's not enough power for the battery, and there's no where nearby to charge it, but you can sit idling while the Harvester charges the battery enough to be able to continue on your trip.
4) There's not enough power to charge the battery up from 1% even with the Harvester filled up and without charging you can't go anywhere until you charge up as well.

 

[J Alynn]

I'm going for the full EV but in terms of how the Harvester will work, I'd be interested in what happens in the following scenario:

You're driving on a road trip, the battery is just going from 1% to 0% and you are just about to run out of gas (or already have depending on the order in which things empty on the Harvester). You pull into a gas station and fill up to full. What happens next:

1) The Harvester has enough power for the battery so you can leave immediately and carry on driving like normal until the gas runs out again.
2) The Harvester doesn't have enough power to keep the battery going at 1% for very long so you will also need to charge up somewhere.
3) There's not enough power for the battery, and there's no where nearby to charge it, but you can sit idling while the Harvester charges the battery enough to be able to continue on your trip.
4) There's not enough power to charge the battery up from 1% even with the Harvester filled up and without charging you can't go anywhere until you charge up as well.

I’ve had these same thoughts so thanks for wordsmithing this post. I couldn’t think of a way to explain

 

[LastDayScout]

I'm going for the full EV but in terms of how the Harvester will work, I'd be interested in what happens in the following scenario:

You're driving on a road trip, the battery is just going from 1% to 0% and you are just about to run out of gas (or already have depending on the order in which things empty on the Harvester). You pull into a gas station and fill up to full. What happens next:

1) The Harvester has enough power for the battery so you can leave immediately and carry on driving like normal until the gas runs out again.
2) The Harvester doesn't have enough power to keep the battery going at 1% for very long so you will also need to charge up somewhere.
3) There's not enough power for the battery, and there's no where nearby to charge it, but you can sit idling while the Harvester charges the battery enough to be able to continue on your trip.
4) There's not enough power to charge the battery up from 1% even with the Harvester filled up and without charging you can't go anywhere until you charge up as well.

Great post.

 

[Logan]

I'm going for the full EV but in terms of how the Harvester will work, I'd be interested in what happens in the following scenario:

You're driving on a road trip, the battery is just going from 1% to 0% and you are just about to run out of gas (or already have depending on the order in which things empty on the Harvester). You pull into a gas station and fill up to full. What happens next:

1) The Harvester has enough power for the battery so you can leave immediately and carry on driving like normal until the gas runs out again.
2) The Harvester doesn't have enough power to keep the battery going at 1% for very long so you will also need to charge up somewhere.
3) There's not enough power for the battery, and there's no where nearby to charge it, but you can sit idling while the Harvester charges the battery enough to be able to continue on your trip.
4) There's not enough power to charge the battery up from 1% even with the Harvester filled up and without charging you can't go anywhere until you charge up as well.

I "imagine" the most likely situation is probably close to a combination of 1, and 3. Pure conjecture, but based on some other stuff.

• AFAIK, once you get into the 0-1% range with an EV, you might get into the situation of reduced performance.
  • This means to get all the performance back, you might have to charge up above a certain level.
• The generator I suspect will try to be able to handle the electrical load for normal driving just fine.
  • But, there will always be times when it can't, thats why in general, it keeps a decent sized buffer of ~20-40% of battery (The ramcharger has a "mountain mode" where it increase its reserved SOC to 35%, I imagine the scout will get something similar).

This is why I say that depending on how you're going to drive after filling the tank, with 1% battery, you might, or might not have to hang around.

I suspect that if you're driving around town/city stuff, you'd be able to gas and go (option 1). But if you're towing in the mountains, or driving 85mph on the freeway for another 350 miles, you'll likely want to stick around to get over some specific state of charge (battery %%), which is more like option 3.

Curious to see how it works too .

 

[UPDon]

I live in an area that doesn't have a lot of EV infrastructure, I had opted for the harvester option, I may go straight EV though, I guess if your going the Harvester route how you will be using the vehicle should outweigh range anxiety. My first thought of having a standby gas generator on board is my Generac generator sitting in my garage that if I don't start it once a month and run it the carb gums up and the gas starts turning to turpentine lol, for some reason I keep thinking that I would put gas in the harvester tank and although it is there, it may seldom be used and I can see problems with the harvester engine down the road. Any thoughgts on this

 

[LastDayScout]

I live in an area that doesn't have a lot of EV infrastructure, I had opted for the harvester option, I may go straight EV though, I guess if your going the Harvester route how you will be using the vehicle should outweigh range anxiety. My first thought of having a standby gas generator on board is my Generac generator sitting in my garage that if I don't start it once a month and run it the carb gums up and the gas starts turning to turpentine lol, for some reason I keep thinking that I would put gas in the harvester tank and although it is there, it may seldom be used and I can see problems with the harvester engine down the road. Any thoughgts on this

Bingo! I maintain that many Harvester takers will rarely use it and wish they didn't opt for it. But, to answer your question there will likely be an algorithm or cycle that the engine will regularly start and self check. That should also run through the limited shelf life of ethanol blended gasoline. I just hope it works better than Generac's self start and check system. Our generators frequently have issues.

 

[Chuckles]

Bingo! I maintain that many Harvester takers will rarely use it and wish they didn't opt for it. But, to answer your question there will likely be an algorithm or cycle that the engine will regularly start and self check. That should also run through the limited shelf life of ethanol blended gasoline. I just hope it works better than Generac's self start and check system. Our generators frequently have issues.

I read that after about a year a Chevy Volt would start running the engine to burn off the gasoline before it became stale and gummed things up. I'm sure Scout will have safeguards.