General EV Ideas

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Jinzaburou

New member
Feb 16, 2024
2
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My wife's car is a 2017 Wrangler, and my car is a 2022 Maverick. With the Scout aiming to be an off road truck, I feel I have a good idea of what that demographic is looking for. The Wranglers are often bare bones vehicles, with a main focus on off-roading first, and comfort 2nd. I think it would be fine for the Scout to forego many of the bells and whistles as it targets this audience as well. Especially if the price is right. Nobody buying a $50/k car wants to drive it off the lot, only to realize it doesn't have power windows. But when I got my '22 Maverick XL for $24k and it didn't have power mirrors, I could live with that. There are always going to be tradeoffs or compromises, but depending on the price, some are easier to make.

As an engineer with an interest in EVs generally, I have many ideas that could be applied to the Scout EV. Here are some ideas:

1. Integrated Wheel Hub Motor - I've seen these concepts at CES and Mobility trade shows, where the motor is integrated into the wheel itself. I'd like to see this on something like the Scout. I feel that doing this would make suspension design simpler and could be better for off roading. You could even make the system asymmetrical, with high-speed motors in the front and low speed in the back, to give a better overall efficiency and performance.

2. Batteries - Current battery systems usually have a base capacity (around 90KWh), and different range extender options from 20 to 40KWh. This adds complexity to the design and requires different battery housings. If I were to design a battery system, I would start with one housing design. Then I would source battery cells with different chemistry, but the same shape. Maybe a NA+ battery for the base version, FePO for the next range up, and NMC for the best range. The battery housing would just need to have a flexible design to accommodate the different battery chemistries, or a single worst-case type of design. If the motors are in the wheels like option 1, there is more space for a bigger battery. That way, even the lower density NA+ batteries can still give a reasonable range. In theory, the overall weight wouldn't change too much either. So you wouldn't need to tune the suspension for heavy range extending options.

3. Airless tires would be great for an off-road vehicle; not having to worry about flats. Not needing a spare either would make more room for the battery as well.

The only reason I haven't switched to an EV yet is mainly the price, but also the range. I go on road trips often, and don't feel like paying a premium for a mere 250 mile range. My truck gets 460miles on a tank of gas. If I could get a compact EV truck with around 400miles of range and a reasonable price, I'd trade in my Maverick today!
 
How do you "air down airless tires" so they perform off-road? And sorry for the price of your Mav, you might get a 400 mile battery......just the battery. It is the main reason almost every EV on the market loses money every time they sell one. I think there is a market, it won't be current off-roaders or many mid-westerners, but someone will want one. If it comes in around $60k and has off-road chops it will be very bare bones. Good luck guys.
 
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How do you "air down airless tires" so they perform off-road? And sorry for the price of your Mav, you might get a 400 mile battery......just the battery. It is the main reason almost every EV on the market loses money every time they sell one. I think there is a market, it won't be current off-roaders or many mid-westerners, but someone will want one. If it comes in around $60k and has off-road chops it will be very bare bones. Good luck guys.
Yeah, batteries can easily be over $20K just for the pack. But that doesn't mean it will always be that way. Cheaper sodium batteries are already hitting the market. It's not unreasonable to assume that by the time the scout launches, battery pack costs will be a bit more in line with expectations. All I am saying, is I want an EV, but I'm not willing to pay $60k for a vehicle that would normally go for around $30k if it were an ICE. So, I will need to wait until prices are more inline, if that ever happens.
For the airless tires, I am sure you can get off road rated versions that perform well. You obviously won't be able to air them down, but I feel there could be a happy medium that could be achieved.
 
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Yeah, batteries can easily be over $20K just for the pack. But that doesn't mean it will always be that way. Cheaper sodium batteries are already hitting the market. It's not unreasonable to assume that by the time the stout launches, battery pack costs will be a bit more in line with expectations. All I am saying, is I want an EV, but I'm not willing to pay $60k for a vehicle that would normally go for around $30k if it were an ICE. So, I will need to wait until prices are more inline, if that ever happens.
For the airless tires, I am sure you can get off road rated versions that perform well. You obviously won't be able to air them down, but I feel there could be a happy medium that could be achieved.
In general for most of the negative comments. The vast majority of SUv’s are purchased for one road use. SM is making their’s an EV suv with off-road capability. Not everyone’s memories of Scouts are strictly off-roading so there will be plenty of accessory manufacturers providing options for those items. I currently am in agreement that I don’t want to pay more for an EV because it’s an EV. I’m not a save the earth driver. That said the EV portion of Scout is still my least preferred but it is going to be EV and I’ll embrace it. Was never a big CVT engine fa either but now my hybrid comes with CVT and so far-39-40 mpg and haven’t even had it through summer weather. That’s double the mileage of my previous sedan made by the same manufacturer. That alone means less fuel-less $.
 
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Yeah, batteries can easily be over $20K just for the pack. But that doesn't mean it will always be that way. Cheaper sodium batteries are already hitting the market. It's not unreasonable to assume that by the time the scout launches, battery pack costs will be a bit more in line with expectations. All I am saying, is I want an EV, but I'm not willing to pay $60k for a vehicle that would normally go for around $30k if it were an ICE. So, I will need to wait until prices are more inline, if that ever happens.
For the airless tires, I am sure you can get off road rated versions that perform well. You obviously won't be able to air them down, but I feel there could be a happy medium that could be achieved.
100% agree. They have some cool off-road airless tires now that work very well, but degrade and soften even more at a quicker rate. Unfortunately I don't think they have any that can then be stiffened up to be good on road tires. Would be cool if they did.
 
My wife's car is a 2017 Wrangler, and my car is a 2022 Maverick. With the Scout aiming to be an off road truck, I feel I have a good idea of what that demographic is looking for. The Wranglers are often bare bones vehicles, with a main focus on off-roading first, and comfort 2nd. I think it would be fine for the Scout to forego many of the bells and whistles as it targets this audience as well. Especially if the price is right. Nobody buying a $50/k car wants to drive it off the lot, only to realize it doesn't have power windows. But when I got my '22 Maverick XL for $24k and it didn't have power mirrors, I could live with that. There are always going to be tradeoffs or compromises, but depending on the price, some are easier to make.

As an engineer with an interest in EVs generally, I have many ideas that could be applied to the Scout EV. Here are some ideas:

1. Integrated Wheel Hub Motor - I've seen these concepts at CES and Mobility trade shows, where the motor is integrated into the wheel itself. I'd like to see this on something like the Scout. I feel that doing this would make suspension design simpler and could be better for off roading. You could even make the system asymmetrical, with high-speed motors in the front and low speed in the back, to give a better overall efficiency and performance.

2. Batteries - Current battery systems usually have a base capacity (around 90KWh), and different range extender options from 20 to 40KWh. This adds complexity to the design and requires different battery housings. If I were to design a battery system, I would start with one housing design. Then I would source battery cells with different chemistry, but the same shape. Maybe a NA+ battery for the base version, FePO for the next range up, and NMC for the best range. The battery housing would just need to have a flexible design to accommodate the different battery chemistries, or a single worst-case type of design. If the motors are in the wheels like option 1, there is more space for a bigger battery. That way, even the lower density NA+ batteries can still give a reasonable range. In theory, the overall weight wouldn't change too much either. So you wouldn't need to tune the suspension for heavy range extending options.

3. Airless tires would be great for an off-road vehicle; not having to worry about flats. Not needing a spare either would make more room for the battery as well.

The only reason I haven't switched to an EV yet is mainly the price, but also the range. I go on road trips often, and don't feel like paying a premium for a mere 250 mile range. My truck gets 460miles on a tank of gas. If I could get a compact EV truck with around 400miles of range and a reasonable price, I'd trade in my Maverick today!
Let me ask you a question?
1. How will you be able to fulfill the stated requirements for “ride quality”?
 
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1. I have been a proponent of integrated wheel motors ever since they were invented by VWs founder back around 1898 ( I was not around for anotherv50+ years). Saves on moving parts and sprung weight.

2. Batteries are just heavy heavy heavy and adding too much battery weight calls for higher load capacity tires which then zffects ride and handling. But an EV with less than 300 mile range will have a hard time finding its way into my driveway. Weight is a killer. Consider the BMW M240x will dust the doors off the Mustang Dark Horse

3. Airless tires are like joystick steering. A fad and non adjustable to boot
 
As far as tires go... I've been really happy with the ride and handling of the R1T, which is heavy on both snows and AT's. And the collab with Pirelli for the AT Scorpions delivered a solid tire that gets me almost 300 miles of range in decent WX conditions. I am actually swapping out my Snows today (Nokian Hakka's) for the Pirellis. I'm running the 20's. This will be my third year on the OEM tires, and I would anticipate this will be my last swap-out before getting new ones. Based on my current mileage, I am running about 15K / year. That works out approximately 7-8K on the Pirellis for me each year in New England (considering the swap to dedicated snows). I ride them pretty hard, so I will probably see a little over 20,000 miles on the AT's before getting new tires next spring (for reference). I also do a 5 tire rotation on the Pirellis. Tires do take some abuse on heavier vehicles, so the EV-specific rating is legit
 
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