Thoughts about an EV off-roader?

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NitroMudder

Member
Feb 21, 2024
8
4
Got my 2500 ZR2, now looking for the wife's daily / future off-roader. The 4 options we are looking at are
1) Bronco Sasquatch, better on-road, Less future options with IFS, not a fan of needing turbo to get to daily useable power on a small engine. The eco-boost has many more durability issues then the 5.0 V8's do.
2) Jeep Wrangler 4dr. Not as nice on-road, but huge aftermarket for off-road and overlanding. 3.6l in our van is just shy of 300k miles so it is durable but low on torque.
3) Jeep Gladiator Same as above but bigger and heavier, will probably LS swap when she is done with it.
4) Colorado ZR2 Bison. Best value and power. IFS limits big tire future and 2.7L Turbo has not been real word durability and longevity proven to me yet. Smaller Aftermarket support, but growing
5)New Scout. Most expensive option due to needing to V6 or V8 swap it as soon as the wife is done with it due to lack of charging on weeklong off grid trips.. Will need entire new drivetrain and frame. Great name, concept pics look great. Dad was an engineer on the Scout II. Wife will need a 2nd vehicle for trips to see in-laws. refuses to stand in a parking lot for an hour with kids at night while it charges.

Am I alone on here thinking off-roaders won't embrace EV, but would love an all new Scout to compete with the above contenders. Or am I wrong? I was very excited when I saw there was going to be a new scout. Seriously excited........for about 10 seconds until I heard EV. Wanting to hear others opinions. The only thread I have seen was about 90% disappointed it was going EV.
 
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Got my 2500 ZR2, now looking for the wife's daily / future off-roader. The 4 options we are looking at are
1) Bronco Sasquatch, better on-road, Less future options with IFS, not a fan of needing turbo to get to daily useable power on a small engine. The eco-boost has many more durability issues then the 5.0 V8's do.
2) Jeep Wrangler 4dr. Not as nice on-road, but huge aftermarket for off-road and overlanding. 3.6l in our van is just shy of 300k miles so it is durable but low on torque.
3) Jeep Gladiator Same as above but bigger and heavier, will probably LS swap when she is done with it.
4) Colorado ZR2 Bison. Best value and power. IFS limits big tire future and 2.7L Turbo has not been real word durability and longevity proven to me yet. Smaller Aftermarket support, but growing
5)New Scout. Most expensive option due to needing to V6 or V8 swap it as soon as the wife is done with it due to lack of charging on weeklong off grid trips.. Will need entire new drivetrain and frame. Great name, concept pics look great. Dad was an engineer on the Scout II. Wife will need a 2nd vehicle for trips to see in-laws. refuses to stand in a parking lot for an hour with kids at night while it charges.

Am I alone on here thinking off-roaders won't embrace EV, but would love an all new Scout to compete with the above contenders. Or am I wrong? I was very excited when I saw there was going to be a new scout. Seriously excited........for about 10 seconds until I heard EV. Wanting to hear others opinions. The only thread I have seen was about 90% disappointed it was going EV.
Read more of the threads and be open to learning. Otherwise you’ve already listed your options so it should be simple decision making on your end. No sense investing millions of $ on a brand new car company only to spend millions more $ to convert in the near future.
You either buy in or you don’t. I was disappointed when I first learned it was an EV but nearly 1-1/2 years later (and the purchase of a hybrid) I’m now onboard for an EV.
A new ICE Scout would still be significantly different than the original Scouts so it would not be/feel the same so I accepted and I braced it.
No one is forcing you to purchase so you have options. You also have another year + to learn and educated so you might come around just like I have. Or maybe not?
 
Read more of the threads and be open to learning. Otherwise you’ve already listed your options so it should be simple decision making on your end. No sense investing millions of $ on a brand new car company only to spend millions more $ to convert in the near future.
You either buy in or you don’t. I was disappointed when I first learned it was an EV but nearly 1-1/2 years later (and the purchase of a hybrid) I’m now onboard for an EV.
A new ICE Scout would still be significantly different than the original Scouts so it would not be/feel the same so I accepted and I braced it.
No one is forcing you to purchase so you have options. You also have another year + to learn and educated so you might come around just like I have. Or maybe not?
A lot of things like, price, battery tech, resale and infrastructure will have to change before it works with our use case. And maybe someday in the future it will.
 
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I was super excited when I heard that the Scout is coming back until I read that it is going to be an EV. I love the idea of building a small, off-road capable suv, but I will never buy an EV. EV's are expensive, unreliable, don't last, are a pain to charge, hard to work on, have a limited range, and are not selling very well. If the Scout had a gas engine I would seriouslly consider buying one. Now, a hybrid with the extra torque of the electric motors and extended range would be very cool. Better yet would be to build a small, simple, reliable, off-road capable, and highly customizable vehicle like the original Scout and they will sell.
 
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I was wondering if there is testing ongoing to reasonably salt proof the trucks. Like can i use my EV truck to drive on the beach, splash the surf or launch a boat from a ramp without having to worry about my truck soon after rusting out or catching fire. I think this was a issue with Tesla where they deal reasonably well in water but salt water becomes a problem.

Tesla Salt Water Fire
 
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I got my back side chew on very severely due to posting a news article related to Teslas failing from driving in flooded streets from tropical storms here in Florida.

You have supported my discussion of people using common sense. Why would you even consider driving in water with an EV?

Sorry if I come off as being unreasonable, but why?
 
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I think there are two general themes here. The first of which is, will the new Scout be an offroad beast? The answer is no, not really. As I have stated, and J Alynn mentions above, there have been lively discussions about this. At the end of the day, Scout has to appeal to a much broader demographic, than the minority of offroad purists, to support the launch of a new vehicle. Will it have burly tires and rugged features? Sure, but I'm not sure it's going to be any more capable than any other standard production vehicle out there today. By the way, that is not a criticism because I think the trucks listed above are very capable.
The second theme is EV performance offroad. As of now, it will be a limitation that needs to be solved for and I don't think anyone on the market, except Dodge, has found a viable solution yet. Scout Motors has made it clear they will not put a powerplant/generator in their vehicles. Until there are hot-swapping batteries, with a reasonable weight and form factor, EVs most likely won't be applicable for true offroad use.
 
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Still early enough in development that Scout could learn from Ineos (and Ram) who just released concept of tge Fusilier, smaller than the Grenadier but on a full battery skateboard with IFS and presumably also IRS) and rack and pinion steering. Judging from being up close and personal to my son's Grenadier the Fusilier will definitely be off road capable.

The selling point to me however will be the hybrid version that will have an on-board ICE to charge the battery while driving for range extension.

Ram goes a little more out of the box as their generator powered by gas engine will produce more kw than the battery but won't recharge the battery
 
Still early enough in development that Scout could learn from Ineos (and Ram) who just released concept of tge Fusilier, smaller than the Grenadier but on a full battery skateboard with IFS and presumably also IRS) and rack and pinion steering. Judging from being up close and personal to my son's Grenadier the Fusilier will definitely be off road capable.

The selling point to me however will be the hybrid version that will have an on-board ICE to charge the battery while driving for range extension.

Ram goes a little more out of the box as their generator powered by gas engine will produce more kw than the battery but won't recharge the battery
If you happen to read any of my other posts you'll notice that I have been trying to drive the Ineos point home pretty hard. They took a more offroad-first approach than any of the other vehicles discussed in this thread. Not to mention they are a brand new entrant to the market, similar to the Scout. A lot of good lessons to be learned here. Although the offroad-first approach comes at the terrible expense of a no-screen dashboard and safety features like a departure lane warning system, etc.
I don't know to much about the Ram but it would be disappointing if the engine doesn't recharge the battery. I sort of thought that was the whole point of that concept? Again, I don't know too much about it.
 
If you happen to read any of my other posts you'll notice that I have been trying to drive the Ineos point home pretty hard. They took a more offroad-first approach than any of the other vehicles discussed in this thread. Not to mention they are a brand new entrant to the market, similar to the Scout. A lot of good lessons to be learned here. Although the offroad-first approach comes at the terrible expense of a no-screen dashboard and safety features like a departure lane warning system, etc.
I don't know to much about the Ram but it would be disappointing if the engine doesn't recharge the battery. I sort of thought that was the whole point of that concept? Again, I don't know too much about it.
I’ll still challenge the idea that until Scout comes out and says they want to be off road first and foremost this is still a venture to capture the largest buying audience while still being designed with off road chops. I could see the extended fossil fuel options on the Scout pick up but it just doesn’t make sense from the viability of SM when their target goal is a price point in the mid $50’s. Ineos and Rivian have their pros and cons but at a much higher price point. If the ability exists to add a plug-in receiver to allow for a modular power boost / extender and it is easily optioned that certainly would be a viable option but again I think it is better suited for the pick up.
I would still be nervous as corporate to having to warrant a plug in option. There are a lot of dumb people out there and it only takes one incident of misusing a half-assed approach to plugging in some kind of generator that isn’t the tended and then the law suits start flying.
I think the Scouts frame and prowess should be a mountain climber dressed in khakis and a plaid shirt and those who want to go extreme can take the current route of Broncos, Tacos, original Scouts, etc…. I want a vehicle that is 80-85% on road and 15% off road for the rare occasions. I want something that can handle snow and muddy/potholed roads to off road locations. I’m not gonna pay $10K more so the 15% of buyers can push the start button and conquer MOAB or the Rubicon. It’s just not practical. Even if SM offered that-the truly small group of buyers would go out and do significant mods anyway-so why penalize all of us who want Scouts for the small group that want the extreme.
I design buildings and houses for a living. If I designed homes with top of the line/everything I’d love to have I’d sit on them forever because it’s a limited buyer pool. Before you know it I’d be broke. Houses and vehicles are commodities when it comes down to the bottom line of a business. I get the desires but reality has to be considered.
If there’s a simple way to add a APU port simply and apply the cost to the buyer than that would be great but designing around that just seems unlikely. I hope everyone gets their wish but not at a price where all the rest of us pay for it.
Sorry for the rant-I sound like my wife who is in finance and banking. I know the reality because I hear her gripe about it all the time. This day and age you only survive by serving the masses-as unfortunate as that may be
 
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No, man, you and I are saying the same thing. No space between us here.
I misread some but my rant wasn’t at you as much as the newcomers that keep coming on here well after a year of SM planning and thinks SM is just gonna reverse course. Didn’t mean to unload on your post 😀
I’ve read your other posts so I know where you stand.
I’m open to options to support those who fear EV (at one point I did too-but I’m not an off-roader or wilderness survivor). It was easier for me because I took the time to read the various posts and points of views. Just wish every new member who longs for ICE would catch up on reading the wealth of knowledge on this forum and reserve comments until after they read up. I traded my 355 hp ICE sports sedan for a hybrid to learn more, save money and determine if I can see myself in an EV. The Scout won’t be my daily but as a lifestyle vehicle I am quickly getting on board
 
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If there’s a simple way to add a APU port simply and apply the cost to the buyer than that would be great but designing around that just seems unlikely.
On the EV side, its potentially just tapping into systems that already exist for other purposes. On the APU side, it would need to be something like 10–15kW continuous to offset load enough to enable a appreciable range gain with an F-150 lighting-esque vehicle during a highway trip.

I hope everyone gets their wish but not at a price where all the rest of us pay for it.
100 percent.
 
Mazda promotes their CX-50 as "off road ready" out of the box. Anyone can promote off road. Shoot, when we got our first BMW X4 in 2020 it came with an offer to drive their test track (with a company vehicle ) to explore the off road capabilities of it.

My Bronco is off road ready but has never been .......but could. And if the Scout cones in as offroad ready as a Bronco or Wrangler that may be enough. If it exceeds that and compares favorably with expectations for the (same time frame of production except Ineos has shown full size prototypes) Ineos Fudilier which will also be all electric with a range extender generator equipped version then they will hit the capability mark.


Price is of course going to be a big factor.
 
I think ideally the newcomer EV off-road manufacturers should all take on the off road courses-maybe not Rubicon but something in Utah or out west and document the success of these vehicles. Then maybe they come together and fund power source/charging stations near these trailheads and show everyone in America that trails are perfect for EV vehicles (not saying to take a Nissan Leaf off-roading, but appropriate models).
This might help convert a lot of enthusiasts
 
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I think ideally the newcomer EV off-road manufacturers should all take on the off road courses-maybe not Rubicon but something in Utah or out west and document the success of these vehicles. Then maybe they come together and fund power source/charging stations near these trailheads and show everyone in America that trails are perfect for EV vehicles (not saying to take a Nissan Leaf off-roading, but appropriate models).
This might help convert a lot of enthusiasts
This is what Rivian did, and it was a driver in my decision to get in early... Things like the Long Way Up, The Rebelle Ralleye, the Transamerica trail build confidence for sure...
 
I got my back side chew on very severely due to posting a news article related to Teslas failing from driving in flooded streets from tropical storms here in Florida.

You have supported my discussion of people using common sense. Why would you even consider driving in water with an EV?

Sorry if I come off as being unreasonable, but why?
I am taking a different approach and am pretty excited about the idea of EV. I can admit i've been reluctant to buy a new Jeep wrangler and I have a 1991 Jeep wrangler at the moment. Most of my last 20 years have been on YJ's I know i'm very old school. I have taken it through mud more times than I can think, most of my experience is in the northeast in woods and quarries so I have a good amount of experience with water and ponds. If the EV is sealed and or made to withstand water what difference would a gas engine be off road? Most of my experience there are no gas stations where i'm going so it won't really extend my distance to have a gas fueled vehicle. However Ev's don't require as many components, so less places to get water where I don't want it, and with things like regenerative breaking and the ability to control some of your torque you could get some benefits that are not available in gas powered vehicles.
 
I think ideally the newcomer EV off-road manufacturers should all take on the off road courses-maybe not Rubicon but something in Utah or out west and document the success of these vehicles. Then maybe they come together and fund power source/charging stations near these trailheads and show everyone in America that trails are perfect for EV vehicles (not saying to take a Nissan Leaf off-roading, but appropriate models).
This might help convert a lot of enthusiasts
What about the Northeast? We have some great wet trails like in Shamokin, PA? I'd love to see a Scout on the Coal Mountain course.