Scout Motors - who are your competitors?

[Harumph]

@scoutmotors

Of course you cannot reveal too much information, too early, however can you speak to the market segments you are targeting for new Scout vehicles?

Who are the competitor vehicles in you sights?

Luxury examples ($$$, compromise off-road capability for a luxury focus)

• Hummer EV
• Grand Cherokee Wagoneer
• G Class

Mid Level examples ($$, off-road capability focus, purpose built features, limited trade-offs for luxury)

• Bronco Badlands
• Rubicon Wrangler / Gladiator
• R1S / T

Base Level examples ($, limited off-road capability)

• Bronco Base
• Wrangler Sport
• TRD 4 Runner

Each Scout enthusiast will have their own expectations for the new Scout design...will you offer a model for every customer?

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I think, in a broad sense, the pickup truck market is pretty comprehensive and you hit on competitors that make sense in parts and more directly for the SUV. We have said we are starting with 4-door versions of the pickup truck and the rugged SUV. We've also said they will be body on ladder-frame chassis. So there will be similarities to some other vehicles on the market and departures from a lot of unibody competitors as well. We think there are some unique opportunities to blend the best of many and stand on our own heritage.

 

[veteran]

I love the retro idea of an EV scout but i feel Americans are still going to have a hard time over EV prices. To create goodwill perhaps you should consider discounts for serving military, first responders and veterans, I realise its a way off but its never too soon to talk money.

 

[lefty]

Several times I've mentioned the Ineos Grenadier and have not heard much, if anything, in response. From a competitive standpoint I'd think Scout Motors would want to watch this one very, very closely. Considering they are a new entrant to the vehicle market it will be interesting to see how they are accepted and by what demographic(s). It will also help validate a lot of what people are suggesting on this forum relative to a true off-road vehicle. It's sharp looking and is allegedly quite capable but also pricier. Interestingly it is not tech-heavy but it's also not an EV. Their EV, as I've stated on another thread, is also due out in 2026.
@Jamie@ScoutMotors how is Scout Motors viewing these guys?

 

[J Alynn]

Several times I've mentioned the Ineos Grenadier and have not heard much, if anything, in response. From a competitive standpoint I'd think Scout Motors would want to watch this one very, very closely. Considering they are a new entrant to the vehicle market it will be interesting to see how they are accepted and by what demographic(s). It will also help validate a lot of what people are suggesting on this forum relative to a true off-road vehicle. It's sharp looking and is allegedly quite capable but also pricier. Interestingly it is not tech-heavy but it's also not an EV. Their EV, as I've stated on another thread, is also due out in 2026.
@Jamie@ScoutMotors how is Scout Motors viewing these guys?

Gotta say I wanted to like this but referenced as a bare bones 4x4 at $70k is hard to swallow. It’s like they benchmarked a Lexus GX interior/Saab and exterior of a G-wagon and Bronco-ish but with an awkward hood/side profile.
I do like some of their colors but for a non-utility finished vehicle this thing is pushing $80K. A loaded Bronco is mid $60K and more than adequate. I’m not sure why Scout would compare with this as competitor when they are targeting $40K starting price as an EV (which are always pricier than an ICE

 

[lefty]

I hear ya and am not saying it's perfect but find it an interesting comp given that it's a new entrant to the market that's also an offroad-first vehicle. Yes it's an ICE (with plans for an EV) but they seem to be doing things a little differently so think it's worth keeping on the radar. Also, keep in mind everyone loves comparing the future Scout with Rivian, which you can't get into for less than $80K. That's already a price point 60% higher than what Scout Motors is targeting.

 

[R1TVT]

At present, the closest thing I see to a competitor (price-aside) would be a Rivian (one reason why I am here following), although as mentioned, less "utilitarian" and more "super truck". The new Scout should be lined-up against pure EV's with off-road capability in the truck and SUV segment. The Hummer is a clown car of an EV that is trying way too hard to make up for something, but that would also fall into the competitor category, as would the Ford Lightening (if looking at the Scout Truck only and not the SUV). If the CT and the Silverado EV ever come to market, those would also be competitors in the truck category. Grenadier seems to be a wanna-be Land Rover, that is cobbled together with other OEM parts, targeted up-market.

Where is this reference to a $40K Scout coming from? I have not seen Scout say much about pricing. I would find it very hard to believe that there could be a 300+ mile range / off-road rated Scout EV that could start at $40K in 2025, but maybe I am missing that somewhere. Tesla already backed-off the starting base price on the CT (but understand that Musk will inflate everything and over-hype as much as possible, just to inflate stock prices). Can't believe what that dood gets away with, but sign of the times I guess.

 

[J Alynn]

At present, the closest thing I see to a competitor (price-aside) would be a Rivian (one reason why I am here following), although as mentioned, less "utilitarian" and more "super truck". The new Scout should be lined-up against pure EV's with off-road capability in the truck and SUV segment. The Hummer is a clown car of an EV that is trying way too hard to make up for something, but that would also fall into the competitor category, as would the Ford Lightening (if looking at the Scout Truck only and not the SUV). If the CT and the Silverado EV ever come to market, those would also be competitors in the truck category. Grenadier seems to be a wanna-be Land Rover, that is cobbled together with other OEM parts, targeted up-market.

Where is this reference to a $40K Scout coming from? I have not seen Scout say much about pricing. I would find it very hard to believe that there could be a 300+ mile range / off-road rated Scout EV that could start at $40K in 2025, but maybe I am missing that somewhere. Tesla already backed-off the starting base price on the CT (but understand that Musk will inflate everything and over-hype as much as possible, just to inflate stock prices). Can't believe what that dood gets away with, but sign of the times I guess.

Scouts advertising/media with Scott K. along with @Jamie@ScoutMotors have noted low $40’s as a target goal. With VWAG backing Scout their purchasing power becomes greater than Tesla and the stand alone EV and small niche off road companies. They (VWAG) are also developing their own battery tech which will help them source as well as keeping costs more competitive.
My struggle right now is the comparisons being made. I think the Jeep and Bronco are the biggest competitors due to anticipated price. Rivian may be a competitor based on vehicle type/EV but mid $40K vs $70K+ isn’t a competitor. At that point it’s a rich persons preference but average buyers aren’t going to shop the Scout against the Rivian. They will shop against the 4Xe and Bronco with ICE until Ford offers EV version which may happen by 2026. Ford’s certainly not gonna let Scout take market share without a fight

 

[R1TVT]

I might agree to disagree on this one for a few reasons. First, one reason why Rivian & others are on the more expensive side, is because they ARE EV's. This tech is obviously at a much more nascent stage compared to ICE and any economics course will teach us that the Experience Curve of any manufacturer for this new technology will result in higher prices at this early stage. Rivian announced early pricing, for early adopters which resulted in very high-value for those adopters. With a $7500 tax credit, state-specific rebates (mine was an additional $7500 in my pocket), no gas, and no maintenance, early adopters did not need to be "rich" - particularly when comparing Rivian prices to the big 3's ICE Truck prices with similar features to Rivian's Launch Edition. Even with the backing of VW, the cost of labor, parts, manufacturing, sourcing materials for batteries, transportation, support, facilities, supply chain, etc. have all increased significantly since the pandemic. Another reason why Rivian and other manufacturers stocks have been crushed. Over time, costs will come back down (I hope), but in the short term, manufacturing a new Scout (as described) and keeping the base price at $40K could prove to be challenging (and challenging to maintain post-launch). The other thing that Rivian, Lucid and Tesla do, is they have set prices and no dealers. This means NO DEALER MARKUP. If you look at the way Dealers have been treating customers, it has been a far cry from a base price. All of that said, it will be very helpful to have the backing of VW, and I do think early adopters could benefit from introductory price points. I just don't think lumping a brand new EV Truck and SUV against ICE is a good comparison from a competitive standpoint. Certainly you could compare off-road attributes and features of a Jeep or a Bronco to a new Scout, but hard to say of they are they really competitors if they are ICE vs BEV. Just my 02. cents though.

 

[J Alynn]

I might agree to disagree on this one for a few reasons. First, one reason why Rivian & others are on the more expensive side, is because they ARE EV's. This tech is obviously at a much more nascent stage compared to ICE and any economics course will teach us that the Experience Curve of any manufacturer for this new technology will result in higher prices at this early stage. Rivian announced early pricing, for early adopters which resulted in very high-value for those adopters. With a $7500 tax credit, state-specific rebates (mine was an additional $7500 in my pocket), no gas, and no maintenance, early adopters did not need to be "rich" - particularly when comparing Rivian prices to the big 3's ICE Truck prices with similar features to Rivian's Launch Edition. Even with the backing of VW, the cost of labor, parts, manufacturing, sourcing materials for batteries, transportation, support, facilities, supply chain, etc. have all increased significantly since the pandemic. Another reason why Rivian and other manufacturers stocks have been crushed. Over time, costs will come back down (I hope), but in the short term, manufacturing a new Scout (as described) and keeping the base price at $40K could prove to be challenging (and challenging to maintain post-launch). The other thing that Rivian, Lucid and Tesla do, is they have set prices and no dealers. This means NO DEALER MARKUP. If you look at the way Dealers have been treating customers, it has been a far cry from a base price. All of that said, it will be very helpful to have the backing of VW, and I do think early adopters could benefit from introductory price points. I just don't think lumping a brand new EV Truck and SUV against ICE is a good comparison from a competitive standpoint. Certainly you could compare off-road attributes and features of a Jeep or a Bronco to a new Scout, but hard to say of they are they really competitors if they are ICE vs BEV. Just my 02. cents though.

Can’t argue with you on your response. I will say though that most people I know buying SUV’s and Pick-ups aren’t really concerned about mileage and yes, to your point, early adopters (to a new vehicle or even to EV’s) might be more conscious of range and/or the environment but will gamble for what they get from going first. If you read back through early posts on this forum there were many people asking for ICE or at least hybrid and I still think if Scout asked the question tomorrow-ICE or EV? The overwhelming response would be ICE and I suspect Scout will miss a large portion of buyers because it is EV. Rivian/EV owners like yourself (I’m guessing) were drawn to it and Scout because you are an early adopter or are much more environmentally conscious than most SUV/truck buyers and believe in EV. I think a lot of Scout buyers (based on what we know today) are more interested because of their connection to Scout history and not because it is EV. As we all learn and buy into EV’s I’m sure many of us will see the benefits, but it will be a bit of an uphill challenge.
Had a gentleman stop me this weekend to ask about our Bronco-gave him my thoughts and asked if he was aware of Scout. His response was yes but NO interest in it due to EV. They travel cross-country each summer with a trailer and he’s content with his Toyota 4-runner at very low mileage because he can deal with the unexpected and regular stop and fill convenience. Ultimately it’s a mind shift that we all need to overcome. He openly said as a daily driver he would buy an EV but as a utility vehicle he won’t even consider it.
This will be Scout’s biggest hurdle for a large buyer demographic. I’m anxiously awaiting Scout Morors’ continuing effort to make all of us Scout fans believers in EV technology

 

[ScoutScribe]

Until we actually see what emerges from the Scout Motors "Skunk Works" aren't debates on the EV competition rather pointless? And, BTW, if you know aircraft history, you will know the term "Skunk Works" is a compliment. The cost and value of EVs has kept me from even causally considering ever buying one. Would be nice if one manufacturer could find a way to price one comperably to an ICE counterpart.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

It is still too early in the process to know where exactly our pricing will come in. The automotive market is very slowly coming down from a historic bump of rising costs, supply issues, and general disruptions that have had a major impact on manufacturers and consumer pricing. Another example more specific to the EV world is batteries. They are a hot commodity with fluctuating pricing and supplies in a very competitive market. The good news is that numerous new battery production facilities are being built in North America right now, including Volkswagen's new prismatic cell facility, which will be one of the largest in North America.

So there are a lot of moving parts regarding where the final pricing will come in. We do intend to offer the best value we can while delivering an exceptional product.

In terms of competitors, we look at everything we think could compete with our vehicles including vehicles outside our intended price range. That's how you build a better product.

 

[R1TVT]

Can’t argue with you on your response. I will say though that most people I know buying SUV’s and Pick-ups aren’t really concerned about mileage and yes, to your point, early adopters (to a new vehicle or even to EV’s) might be more conscious of range and/or the environment but will gamble for what they get from going first. If you read back through early posts on this forum there were many people asking for ICE or at least hybrid and I still think if Scout asked the question tomorrow-ICE or EV? The overwhelming response would be ICE and I suspect Scout will miss a large portion of buyers because it is EV. Rivian/EV owners like yourself (I’m guessing) were drawn to it and Scout because you are an early adopter or are much more environmentally conscious than most SUV/truck buyers and believe in EV. I think a lot of Scout buyers (based on what we know today) are more interested because of their connection to Scout history and not because it is EV. As we all learn and buy into EV’s I’m sure many of us will see the benefits, but it will be a bit of an uphill challenge.
Had a gentleman stop me this weekend to ask about our Bronco-gave him my thoughts and asked if he was aware of Scout. His response was yes but NO interest in it due to EV. They travel cross-country each summer with a trailer and he’s content with his Toyota 4-runner at very low mileage because he can deal with the unexpected and regular stop and fill convenience. Ultimately it’s a mind shift that we all need to overcome. He openly said as a daily driver he would buy an EV but as a utility vehicle he won’t even consider it.
This will be Scout’s biggest hurdle for a large buyer demographic. I’m anxiously awaiting Scout Morors’ continuing effort to make all of us Scout fans believers in EV technology

No doubt. A lot of people are NOT going to jump in head first, and yes, I would consider myself to be an early adopter. Catering to people that want ICE-only is not what the new Scout is about though. That decision has been made, and I think it is a good one. Buying an ICE vehicle right now (at least for a daily driver or primary vehicle) almost seems like you are buying obsolete technology. I only say this after 1 full year of owning my R1T. You mention this 4-Runner driver towing his camper across country, and I would agree 100% that this demographic probably should not consider EV's at this stage, simply due to an increased frequency in charging stops and time required to charge, compared to ICE, due to the increased need for either kWh or gas. If you are an OEM today (or let's just say you are SCOUT), are you building a vehicle for a demographic that tows a trailer across the country, or are you building a factory for a much larger demographic, which also includes daily drivers?

My choice to go E/V and with Rivian was a personal choice, and was made with some of the following criteria in mind:

1. I am an outdoorsman - and I love my winter sports. If you care about the environment at all, then EV's are a net positive
2. I 100% aligned with the features of an EV truck with a range of over 300+ miles, tons of storage, solid off-road capability and modern tech
3. I ordered in 2019, so I did benefit from the earlier pricing and all of the incentives
4. I believed in the mission statement, and trusted the emphasis on adventure AND performance (0-60 in 3 seconds is INSANE)
5. I tow a boat locally from time to time. 11K pounds of towing capacity is no joke.
6. I had installed solar on the roof of my home (only increases your payback period when installing a home charger)
7. Gas prices were crazy and kept going up, and I do care about mileage & efficiency & value
8. Maintenance is pretty non-existent, other than swapping winter tires for AT's
9. Whats not to like about innovation from an American company that is building a truck IN AMERICA?
10. To the point above, this was the most patriotic, large purchase I have ever made, other than a new home.

Bear with me, but I think there is still a lot of mis-guided and mis-directed hate on EV's, b/c people now categorize everything as left or right. right or wrong, Democrat or Republican. A lot of us are fed up with this, we think independently and we can be both socially progressive and economically conservative. You don't need to be a Conservative to be a conservationist, and you don't need to be a liberal to drive an EV. Sorry, but that is why we have so much division today. I don't want to turn this into a political debate at all, but if we are being honest, a lot of people simply don't like what they don't understand. In the case of this new Scout, we already see Scout addressing some of the things listed above. Those things drew me to Rivian with their initial launch.... "A new factory, a company that produces something strong and smart, a company that respects its people AND the planet, Americans would appreciate it, it will be fun, it will right wrongs, it will lead with respect, one from a brand that helped build and defend America, one helluva truck" ETC... We see all this here:

I would say that Scout is being very intentional and targeted in the Demographic that will become life-long new Scout fans (starting in 2026). This might sound crass, but if you loved your Scout 40 years ago, and you were 40 at the time, you are likely not going to be in that "long-term" Demographic. But, if I were 80 years old, and I once owned a Scout and had 1 more car left in me, you better believe I would be looking at the new Scout when it drops. That just isn't where all the buying power for this new Scout will be coming from, if we are being 100% honest. Scout will be a business, and the business needs some mass appeal for sure as an OEM, in order to thrive and be successful. Scout has a really good shot at this!

 

[J Alynn]

No doubt. A lot of people are NOT going to jump in head first, and yes, I would consider myself to be an early adopter. Catering to people that want ICE-only is not what the new Scout is about though. That decision has been made, and I think it is a good one. Buying an ICE vehicle right now (at least for a daily driver or primary vehicle) almost seems like you are buying obsolete technology. I only say this after 1 full year of owning my R1T. You mention this 4-Runner driver towing his camper across country, and I would agree 100% that this demographic probably should not consider EV's at this stage, simply due to an increased frequency in charging stops and time required to charge, compared to ICE, due to the increased need for either kWh or gas. If you are an OEM today (or let's just say you are SCOUT), are you building a vehicle for a demographic that tows a trailer across the country, or are you building a factory for a much larger demographic, which also includes daily drivers?

My choice to go E/V and with Rivian was a personal choice, and was made with some of the following criteria in mind:

1. I am an outdoorsman - and I love my winter sports. If you care about the environment at all, then EV's are a net positive
2. I 100% aligned with the features of an EV truck with a range of over 300+ miles, tons of storage, solid off-road capability and modern tech
3. I ordered in 2019, so I did benefit from the earlier pricing and all of the incentives
4. I believed in the mission statement, and trusted the emphasis on adventure AND performance (0-60 in 3 seconds is INSANE)
5. I tow a boat locally from time to time. 11K pounds of towing capacity is no joke.
6. I had installed solar on the roof of my home (only increases your payback period when installing a home charger)
7. Gas prices were crazy and kept going up, and I do care about mileage & efficiency & value
8. Maintenance is pretty non-existent, other than swapping winter tires for AT's
9. Whats not to like about innovation from an American company that is building a truck IN AMERICA?
10. To the point above, this was the most patriotic, large purchase I have ever made, other than a new home.

Bear with me, but I think there is still a lot of mis-guided and mis-directed hate on EV's, b/c people now categorize everything as left or right. right or wrong, Democrat or Republican. A lot of us are fed up with this, we think independently and we can be both socially progressive and economically conservative. You don't need to be a Conservative to be a conservationist, and you don't need to be a liberal to drive an EV. Sorry, but that is why we have so much division today. I don't want to turn this into a political debate at all, but if we are being honest, a lot of people simply don't like what they don't understand. In the case of this new Scout, we already see Scout addressing some of the things listed above. Those things drew me to Rivian with their initial launch.... "A new factory, a company that produces something strong and smart, a company that respects its people AND the planet, Americans would appreciate it, it will be fun, it will right wrongs, it will lead with respect, one from a brand that helped build and defend America, one helluva truck" ETC... We see all this here:

I would say that Scout is being very intentional and targeted in the Demographic that will become life-long new Scout fans (starting in 2026). This might sound crass, but if you loved your Scout 40 years ago, and you were 40 at the time, you are likely not going to be in that "long-term" Demographic. But, if I were 80 years old, and I once owned a Scout and had 1 more car left in me, you better believe I would be looking at the new Scout when it drops. That just isn't where all the buying power for this new Scout will be coming from, if we are being 100% honest. Scout will be a business, and the business needs some mass appeal for sure as an OEM, in order to thrive and be successful. Scout has a really good shot at this!

Well said.
I’ll be curious what the younger demographic ends up doing because oddly I think they will embrace it. My daughter has no understanding of early broncos and scouts-heritage angle- but she Loves her Bronco because it’s unique and it’s convertible. Not to mention she’s patiently waiting for a 2” lift and larger wheels -all for looks, she has no intention of off-roading. I do wonder if it doesn’t have a soft top if that will impact younger buyers due to cost. Going to be an interesting two year ride

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Nicely said and honestly how a lot of us feel working on the project.

 

[Albal]

I see the Rivian SUV being the most comparable to the upcoming Scout. And, who knows, maybe in a few years when batteries get substantially cheaper they will lower the price. For me the big Rivian misses are no carplay, no knobs/etc, poor-to-average ride quality and a bit too big (large turning circle). The Rivian big hits are a clean exterior design that looks both friendly and unusually capable (ie it kinda looks like a Scout II).

In addition to "who are your competitors" another way of phrasing the question is "what will your customers be cross shopping for".

I don't know about others, but I don't limit myself to one car category when deciding what to buy. Instead, I have a list of things I'd like to accomplish. In other words, I cross shop for capabilities, not vehicles. If I can find them all in one vehicle, great. Otherwise I'll end up with multiple (new, used, whatever) vehicles more optimized for each function. For example, at one point I owed a pickup truck and a Miata. One for truck stuff and the other for pure driving enjoyment (by far the most fun car I've ever driven!).

Nowadays I'm bit old to be shaken up by a Miata, so I'd love to just own a Scout, like the one I grew up in as a kid. But unless it manages to be good on road in addition to good around the property, I'll probably get a beater truck and something different that's comfortable to drive on road.

 

[R1TVT]

There are 2 upcoming Scouts, 1 is an SUV and 1 a truck. The R1S will be a direct competitor to the Scout SUV, and the R1T to the Scout Truck. Not sure where you get the "poor to average" ride quality. The truck and SUV both ride so well, with multiple drive modes and ride heights. I would say that ride quality has to be super dependent on ride settings, wheels, tires and tire pressure. Some people that were complaining initially were coming out of cars (and had never driven a truck, let alone a EV truck). It takes some getting used to when your settings (for example) are in SPORT mode with HIGH REGEN and STIFF suspension on 22" wheels with skinny sidewalls. The 20's in ALL PURPOSE mode with SOFT suspension settings at AT's make the R1T one of the best riding trucks I have ever been in. For the R1S, they also did a SW update to improve ride quality. I swear, half the people complaining don't actually know how to change the settings! LOL

 

[ScoutScribe]

J Alynn- The off-road look is important to people and has been since the four-wheeling trend got big back in the '70s. Sadly only a very few embracing that look actually use the trail capability that may come from the modifications. Assuming it's not a "for looks only" buildup that actually detracts from trail performance. Many don't fully understand how much their lift and big tires may compromise braking and handling characteristics. Reducing street handling and braking performance by 25% to accomodate the 1 percent of the time you are on the trail is not a good trade. How did that old Billy Crystal routine go, "It's not how you are, it how you look!"

This past weekend at Scout Nationals I had a few debates with the Old Scout Guard about EVs on the long trail. A couple got heated. The funny part is the most strenuous arguers were those with the least amount of trail time and they mostly cited hypotheticals. C'mon, guys, you don't need to haul around enough gas for 1k miles of wheeling on a 50 mile trip. A semi-competent wheeler plans the trip according to the range of the vehicle... ICE or EV.
Their two best arguments are range and the ability to field-fix a broken rig. Those remain to be solved. The field fix part might never be given EV technologyis on a space ship level. Still, few people with a modern ICE can fix them out on the trail anyway. You can band-aid an old-school rig but the newer rigs are harder unless you are a pro with spare parts. Range... until you go out west, most trail runs are relatively short. Probably within the range of a modern EV, assuming it starts with a full charge. In my limited experience with an old EV conversion back in the '90s, rockcrawling in Moab, Utah, the battery drain wasn't bad because of the low speeds.

Here's an idea to pass on, how about taking a Scout to the various hot trail spots around the country before the debut and establish a "Moab Range," a "Rubican Range," "Black Rock Desert Range," etc. Make a list of the hot wheeling areas, go out there and establish range benchmarks THERE! Not just testing from some poor SOB going roundy-round a test course trying to maintain his sanity. Spend a week in Moab (or whereever) hitting the trails within the capability of the Scout EV and you have not only established a good benchmark for that type of terrain, you can certify the Scout as "Moab Trail Tested."

 

[J Alynn]

J Alynn- The off-road look is important to people and has been since the four-wheeling trend got big back in the '70s. Sadly only a very few embracing that look actually use the trail capability that may come from the modifications. Assuming it's not a "for looks only" buildup that actually detracts from trail performance. Many don't fully understand how much their lift and big tires may compromise braking and handling characteristics. Reducing street handling and braking performance by 25% to accomodate the 1 percent of the time you are on the trail is not a good trade. How did that old Billy Crystal routine go, "It's not how you are, it how you look!"

This past weekend at Scout Nationals I had a few debates with the Old Scout Guard about EVs on the long trail. A couple got heated. The funny part is the most strenuous arguers were those with the least amount of trail time and they mostly cited hypotheticals. C'mon, guys, you don't need to haul around enough gas for 1k miles of wheeling on a 50 mile trip. A semi-competent wheeler plans the trip according to the range of the vehicle... ICE or EV.
Their two best arguments are range and the ability to field-fix a broken rig. Those remain to be solved. The field fix part might never be given EV technologyis on a space ship level. Still, few people with a modern ICE can fix them out on the trail anyway. You can band-aid an old-school rig but the newer rigs are harder unless you are a pro with spare parts. Range... until you go out west, most trail runs are relatively short. Probably within the range of a modern EV, assuming it starts with a full charge. In my limited experience with an old EV conversion back in the '90s, rockcrawling in Moab, Utah, the battery drain wasn't bad because of the low speeds.

Here's an idea to pass on, how about taking a Scout to the various hot trail spots around the country before the debut and establish a "Moab Range," a "Rubican Range," "Black Rock Desert Range," etc. Make a list of the hot wheeling areas, go out there and establish range benchmarks THERE! Not just testing from some poor SOB going roundy-round a test course trying to maintain his sanity. Spend a week in Moab (or whereever) hitting the trails within the capability of the Scout EV and you have not only established a good benchmark for that type of terrain, you can certify the Scout as "Moab Trail Tested."

Like your thinking. And FWIW I’ve been trying to talk her out of that stuff since she first said it. Her coach is Old School, has an original Judge and works on all kinds of 70’s muscle not to mention military simulator management as his full time job and even he’s telling her not to mod it for same reasons you said. I guess with age comes wisdom and hoping I can hold her off a bit longer so more wisdom sets in.

 

[Rustic_father]

I know a while back i used an analogy about LL Bean or Bass pro shop or even REI as a reference to the "type of outdoorsman branding and alignment" I think this sort of is relevant again for the topic of who the competition is. And much to Jamie's point...there is no current direct competition based on capability and price (which is a good target for something to sell).

so going back to my analogy....LL Bean, REI, and Bass Pro shop all offer outdoorsman clothing and equipment. The difference is the relative price but all of them will get you out and be able to camp or have a good time outside. The other thing is sort of the culture behind the branding. (In MY opinion) LL Bean is the higher end of outdoor equipment, it is the most fashionable but practical outdoorsy equipment/clothing that you can get and with that comes some of the higher price. REI is a middle ground where they will give you things that is a fairly good balance between fashion, functionality, and price. Finally Bass proshop....It isn't a bargain or unreliable brand but i feel that it is more about functionality and price that happens to be fashionable because realistically outdoorsman style never goes out.

SO to bring this whole thing back to the thread at hand....... As Jamie suggested Rivian is a very capable outdoorsy truck/SUV but at the price point they are still in the luxury brand territory....and with no other EVs to compare it to I think we need to look at the ICE versions. and previously i mentioned how Rivian show rooms and press events very much feel like an LL Bean catalog....fashionable, capable, expensive.

For the trucks i would suggest that the closest competition is Toyota Tacoma, not only do i expect the size to be very similar but the Toyota also has a off-road spirit too it, and the price is one of the most reasonable among non-Fullsize trucks. However, the branding behind the Toyota Tacoma is more of a "sporty" / "monster energy" / "rally race" / "dirt bike" sort of idea.

The only other car brand that has a somewhat similar "idea" or feel to what i think about when i'm thinking about this community would be Subaru.....now hear me out.... Subaru is the only brand that i can think of that tries to align it'self with a calmer / camping / outdoorsmanship. The big thing that helps Scout fit into this space is that 1) Subaru doesn't make Trucks 2) the EV that they just introduced SUUUUUUCKS.

So right now in terms of competition if Scout aligns itself with Practicality first, there is no real Direct competition in the EV space. and when it comes to the culture of the type of outdoorsman/off-roading that scout is looking to persue there is no direct compition in the truck space either....

so in my honest opinion if Scout maintains the reasonable price point with its capabilities there will be no credible compition which is an excellent spot for a vehicle to be in.

I hope my rambling made some assortment of sense,