Realistic range concerns.

[Central Oregon Guy]

Last year I bought my wife a new car. It was going to be a Tesla; but we settled on a Toyota RAV4 Prime (plug in hybrid). The reason we didn’t get a full battery electric vehicle is due to the lack of charging infrastructure in Central Oregon. We often do road trips and with a battery electric vehicle would not be able to return home on the same day or continue our journey; due to a lack of charging stations. I have started to see a few new charging stations (Detroit, Oregon), but not enough yet to alleviate my range anxiety.

My primary vehicle is a Toyota 4Runner, it is rugged and reliable; but it is not electric. I use it primarily as a daily driver with weekend trips to the Wilderness for hunting trips. My last hunting trip was 120 miles one way in freezing temperatures. Depending on the availability of charging stations; I wouldn’t be able to make a return trip in a vehicle with limited range like the Polestar 2 or Nissan Leaf. Please make the Scout with a realistic range (regardless of temperature) for the people who will actually use it outside of cities.

 

[R1TVT]

People overlanding in ICE vehicles have been using solar for years. Roof Top Tents and accessories can provide structure and space to permanently mount panels... As noted above, these solutions are NOT powerful enough for charging a LARGE vehicle battery (which is what we are talking about here for the Scout, or Rivian for example). These solar solutions are excellent for powering small accessories, charging phones, fans, camp lights, etc. - not so great for a big, expensive truck battery for the reasons already discussed.

in terms of infrastructure and apps, I have been pleasantly surprised by DCFC charging in certain spots along many different routes, or pleasantly surprised by ABSOLUTELY FREE L2 charging at the airport, or at a hotel, or at a ski area. Just this past week I pulled into a rest area on the NJ Turnpike on my way to Annapolis and found 2 DCFC chargers that were not shown in my Nav. Point being, new locations are being added and you sometimes may find chargers you didn't know would be there. I also pulled into a Jeep dealership with a new DCFC in Hyannis on Cape Cod and was the very first person to initiate a charge at that station. The station WAS listed in the Rivian app (to my surprise), and was why I pulled into the dealership in the first place, but it literally went live that day. The guys that lit the station came running out of their truck to See how much power I was pulling. The only weird thing about that location is that it was showing the location of the charger at the other side of the lot, so the guys that deployed it snapped a picture of my Nav screen and called to update the coordinates.

Having put 35,000 miles on my 2022 R1T, I will say that 300 miles of range has ONLY ever been an issue when traveling into remote locations in winter (where range may decrease), and where you may not have a charger available upon your arrival. This type of scenario requires advanced planning for your return to a charger (IF no chargers will be available at your destination). I tend to charge-up to 80% at the last DCFC on my route to the destination. Some of these destinations (ski areas, for example) may have a bank of L2 chargers available. If that is the case, you can plug in and charge all day while you are skiing and have more than enough range to get home or get to your closest DCFC.

More recently, I have been able to charge at RIVIAN chargers in NH, MA, RI, DE, NY and MD. These type of dedicated stations have always been operational, seem very strategically located for longer road trips, and always have food right at the station or within walking distance! If you are on a road trip, and if you are mindful of arrival times at chargers around meals, you will have a very relaxing and enjoyable driving experience, in my opinion. I actually find driving in my R1T on a road trip to be less stressful, even if the total trip duration increases by 30 or 40 minutes per charging stop to eat and use the restroom or catch up on emails with WiFi in the truck.

 

[OleScout]

Perhaps a better vehicle choice

Why Doesn’t Every Electric Car Have Solar Panels?

Seems like a simple enough solution: Put solar panels on an electric car and there's no reason to plug it in, right? Well, it's not so simple, but recent developments and new car models may indicate things are heading that direction.

www.forbes.com

With EV's still a fairly newer concept that manufacturers are adopting, the technology will continue to improve and the possibilities are endless. We'll see battery technology improve over time as ranges will extend and battery will reduce in size decreasing overall weight. Thanks for sharing!

 

[J Alynn]

With EV's still a fairly newer concept that manufacturers are adopting, the technology will continue to improve and the possibilities are endless. We'll see battery technology improve over time as ranges will extend and battery will reduce in size decreasing overall weight. Thanks for sharing!

The manufacture panels are a great concept so long as you don’t live in overcast climates like the northwest or heavily wooded areas, but I hope to see this type of advancement make it to mass production in my lifetime. If Mnorway can build new highway lanes that electromagnetically recharge cars while driving there is certainly room for panel advancement directly on cars.

 

[RebelliousPeasant]

Aptera has developed technology around incorporating solar panels on the body of the car (roof, hood, maybe even sides), light but durable.

Yes but Aptera is an extraordinarily efficient design. It's shaped like a wing to reduce drag as much as physics will allow, it only has three wheels to reduce rolling resistance, and is made to be as light as physically possible. Literally everything about it is designed for maximum efficiency and even then the solar panels won't actually provide a huge amount of range unless you live in California or the Southern US. They will make a sort of 'off road' version though so if that's your jam go for it!

Scouts will be big, heavy, boxy and relatively inefficient designs by comparison. As @J Alynn said, it would probably be easier and more practical to just bring along a level 1 charger.

 

[RebelliousPeasant]

With EV's still a fairly newer concept that manufacturers are adopting, the technology will continue to improve and the possibilities are endless. We'll see battery technology improve over time as ranges will extend and battery will reduce in size decreasing overall weight. Thanks for sharing!

EVs aren't as new as many seem to think, they've been around for almost two decades now in their modern form and are a fairly mature technology. Improvements have been incremental so don't believe the hype from some corners that some magical breakthrough will dramatically improve capacity, and reduce size and that it's just around the corner. It's not. We're talking about 1% to 2% improvements per year which has been the case for the past decade and a half. Modern Tesla batteries are marginally better than their 15 year old counterparts, the real improvements have been on the cost front.

Those incremental improvements do add up over time but they won't dramatically change things and certainly won't change things overnight. Current batteries are already pretty much at the limits of chemistry with breakthroughs being mostly in how they're packaged and integrated into the car. The improvements that I do expect to see will mostly be to reduce costs and improve durability. EV ranges are all pretty much equivalent to a tank of gas and charge times are about as fast as they'll reasonably get just because installing more powerful (like 1 MW) chargers for passenger vehicles is impractical from a grid-perspective. So really the only big area for improvement at this point is cost.

 

[Albal]

Here's a new Rivian charging and R&R station near Yosemite: https://stories.rivian.com/yosemitechargingoutpost
It seems the strategy is to let you charge up before going someplace with limited/over-booked charging. And, of course, all types of people drive by and see the Rivian signage on the way to Yosemite - good advertising.

 

[J Alynn]

Here's a new Rivian charging and R&R station near Yosemite: https://stories.rivian.com/yosemitechargingoutpost
It seems the strategy is to let you charge up before going someplace with limited/over-booked charging. And, of course, all types of people drive by and see the Rivian signage on the way to Yosemite - good advertising.

Damn, they jumped on this forum and stole the Scoutpost idea. Sneaky bastards.
Thats exactly what I had imagined Scout doing. Now it will look copycat if SM does it but at least the posts/threads on here justify when the collective started suggesting Scoutpost-forget who first coined it on here but cudos to you for doing so

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

LOL.

I joke that there aren't many original ideas anymore. A couple of years from now, this will probably be common, and that's okay. The bigger picture and bigger goal is to have the infrastructure there when we need it—whatever form that is. ScoutPost isn't dead. We couldn't use that name for the blog because they wanted to save it for other things. So stay tuned....

 

[OleScout]

I was thinking more of Scout Outlet, for the purpose of charging and make it a accessory and retail store.

 

[Garbone]

I could live with 225 miles of range, any less things would be inconvenient. Having done many road trips the big thing is availability and the NACs is fixing that. A nice charge curve would be good also. I would pay for a better curve before adding the weight to get more range with a crap curve. Kinda why I do not really love the LFP.

 

[Papi.G]

As an EV owner who has driven 35,000 miles in the past 12 months, a long range batteries imperative.

If Scout ca approach or exceed 400 miles in range it will be competitive with Rivian.

At less than 300 miles of range, I will not purchase the Scout.

 

[LastDayScout]

As an EV owner who has driven 35,000 miles in the past 12 months, a long range batteries imperative.

If Scout ca approach or exceed 400 miles in range it will be competitive with Rivian.

At less than 300 miles of range, I will not purchase the Scout.

We do not know what the range will be yet, but it will be competitive. There is a long time between now and the vehicles actually being sold for battery technology and unit efficiencies to continue to develop.

 

[Papi.G]

EVs aren't as new as many seem to think, they've been around for almost two decades now in their modern form and are a fairly mature technology. Improvements have been incremental so don't believe the hype from some corners that some magical breakthrough will dramatically improve capacity, and reduce size and that it's just around the corner. It's not. We're talking about 1% to 2% improvements per year which has been the case for the past decade and a half. Modern Tesla batteries are marginally better than their 15 year old counterparts, the real improvements have been on the cost front.

Those incremental improvements do add up over time but they won't dramatically change things and certainly won't change things overnight. Current batteries are already pretty much at the limits of chemistry with breakthroughs being mostly in how they're packaged and integrated into the car. The improvements that I do expect to see will mostly be to reduce costs and improve durability. EV ranges are all pretty much equivalent to a tank of gas and charge times are about as fast as they'll reasonably get just because installing more powerful (like 1 MW) chargers for passenger vehicles is impractical from a grid-perspective. So really the only big area for improvement at this point is cost.

EVs that are street legal have been around for 50 years. I drove my first EV, a Sebring, licensed for over the road use, in 1974.

Beyond a doubt, those were rudimentary vehicles compared to the best EVs of today.

 

[Garbone]

I think a higher voltage pack with better charge rates is more desirable than overall range. I would take a 250mile pack that charges faster than a 320 mile pack that is slow.

Example being we had a funeral to attend last Thursday in Ohio with 36hours notice of the actual service time. Math showed that my MachE would have to charge 4+ hours DCFC to get there making the trip from Florida 16 plus hours. (Airports closed)

Throw in putting up hurricane shutters and packing we chose renting a gasser just for the charge time savings.

An extended range pack may have saved me 45 minutes of that, maybe not as some makes charge their bigger packs at a lower rate. It's all in the pack voltage.

 

[Papi.G]

I think a higher voltage pack with better charge rates is more desirable than overall range. I would take a 250mile pack that charges faster than a 320 mile pack that is slow.

Example being we had a funeral to attend last Thursday in Ohio with 36hours notice of the actual service time. Math showed that my MachE would have to charge 4+ hours DCFC to get there making the trip from Florida 16 plus hours. (Airports closed)

Throw in putting up hurricane shutters and packing we chose renting a gasser just for the charge time savings.

An extended range pack may have saved me 45 minutes of that, maybe not as some makes charge their bigger packs at a lower rate. It's all in the pack voltage.

Maybe then the answer is Scout should provide choices, as other EV manufacturers do, such as Tesla and Rivian. Not simply "one size fits all".

 

[J Alynn]

Maybe then the answer is Scout should provide choices, as other EV manufacturers do, such as Tesla and Rivian. Not simply "one size fits all".

I think a 3-tier battery package is way to go. Standard, a +100 mile range version and a +75-100 mile range with faster charge capability. Probably a $12K-$15K spread among those options but that would still provide a great off-road capable SUV/truck while providing flexibility on range and cost allowing buyers to choose what best suits their daily/long haul-towing needs.

 

[RebelliousPeasant]

I think a higher voltage pack with better charge rates is more desirable than overall range. I would take a 250mile pack that charges faster than a 320 mile pack that is slow.

Example being we had a funeral to attend last Thursday in Ohio with 36hours notice of the actual service time. Math showed that my MachE would have to charge 4+ hours DCFC to get there making the trip from Florida 16 plus hours. (Airports closed)

Throw in putting up hurricane shutters and packing we chose renting a gasser just for the charge time savings.

An extended range pack may have saved me 45 minutes of that, maybe not as some makes charge their bigger packs at a lower rate. It's all in the pack voltage.

I agree.

If the choice is between more range or faster charging definitely go with faster charging.

I've been driving EVs (as our only vehicle) for 8 years now and faster charging is definitely the more useful trait. I'd take a 400km range with 300 kW charge speeds over a 500km range 150 kW charge speed any day.

 

[J Alynn]

I agree.

If the choice is between more range or faster charging definitely go with faster charging.

I've been driving EVs (as our only vehicle) for 8 years now and faster charging is definitely the more useful trait. I'd take a 400km range with 300 kW charge speeds over a 500km range 150 kW charge speed any day.

You and your damn Canadian “metrics”. There needs to be a disclaimer for you that requires you to convert to our measuring methods

 

[RebelliousPeasant]

You and your damn Canadian “metrics”. There needs to be a disclaimer for you that requires you to convert to our measuring methods

Hahaha the entire world uses metric except the US, Liberia and Myanmar.

I'm thinking it's probably you guys that should do the converting to real measuring methods!

 

[oldgeeksguide]

Hahaha the entire world uses metric except the US, Liberia and Myanmar.

I'm thinking it's probably you guys that should do the converting to real measuring methods!