No regenerative braking!!!!!!!

[R1TVT]

Yeah, except that is not the way it works (at least in my experience). No manufacturer is providing a "golf cart" single pedal driving experience without a brake. And if you are decelerating to stop quickly with regen, your foot is OFF the accelerator and you hit the brake the exact same way you would to stop if you took your foot off a gas pedal - there is no difference. It is all about driver awareness of what the vehicle is doing, your speed and how to control it. Exactly the same awareness you need with ICE. In fact, some might argue that ICE is less safe because there is no regen.

 

[Bodie]

Paddles are great if you like driving with your hands at 10 & 2 all the time, but not so great if you like driving with 1 hand. Therefore, another reason to have options.

Actually, if you’re hands are 10 and 2, you wouldn’t be able to use the paddles which are at 3 and 9. I am usually 1 hand at 8 or 4 with my index finger resting on one of the paddles.

 

[J Alynn]

Call me crazy but I regulate m driving 90% of the time with ICE just using the gas pedal unless it’s heavy stop and go traffic. I avoid brakes as much as possible to reduce wear on my brake pads and rotors. Do most people use their brakes constantly? I’m a mix of rural and city driving so I get braking in the city but even rural driving I’ll use my paddle shifters rather than brakes I just don’t get the benefit of regen.
Maybe I’m overthinking this process.
As for paddles-if m driving long distance than yeah-my hands are on the wheel as @Bodie mentioned but in heavier traffic I naturally keep two handed on the wheel. Prior to my hybrid Honda I had higher performance cars so I tended to drive very spiritedly so two hands on wheel was about safety and control

 

[Bodie]

The benefit of regen is using generators to slow the car while putting energy back into the battery pack instead of friction brakes that just produce heat. This extends the electric range of the vehicle. Engine braking (downshifting) is more efficient than friction brakes by saving a tiny bit of gas but regen is like adding gas to the tank.

 

[J Alynn]

The benefit of regen is using generators to slow the car while putting energy back into the battery pack instead of friction brakes that just produce heat. This extends the electric range of the vehicle. Engine braking (downshifting) is more efficient than friction brakes by saving a tiny bit of gas but regen is like adding gas to the tank.

To clarify when I said I don’t get the benefit of regen I meant physically. I understand the benefits but the accord hybrid does regen when physically braking but no one pedal regen. I realized when I read your response that my comment made it seem like I didn’t understand

 

[Bodie]

Sorry to EV-splain you

 

[J Alynn]

Sorry to EV-splain you

I did like your explanation for what it’s worth. Better you ‘splaining me than my wife

 

[R1TVT]

Actually, if you’re hands are 10 and 2, you wouldn’t be able to use the paddles which are at 3 and 9. I am usually 1 hand at 8 or 4 with my index finger resting on one of the paddles.

Yes, sorry when I said 10 & 2 I should have just said "driving with 2 hands", b/c of course the exact positioning of some of the controls varies... Sometimes driving that way with 2 hands on the wheel is just not as relaxing as driving with 1 hand. That was my main point.

 

[R1TVT]

The benefit of regen is using generators to slow the car while putting energy back into the battery pack instead of friction brakes that just produce heat. This extends the electric range of the vehicle. Engine braking (downshifting) is more efficient than friction brakes by saving a tiny bit of gas but regen is like adding gas to the tank.

The other HUGE benefit is way less wear and tear of course

 

[Livingthreeday]

All EVs should have regen. as long as it is adjustable to the owners driving style. I have driven EVs with and without Regen and after a very short adjustment period I preferred heavy regen. I drove for almost the whole week without touching the brakes. After that I couldn't help thinking about all the wasted energy (and brake pads) driving my ICE vehicle.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

All EVs should have regen. as long as it is adjustable to the owners driving style. I have driven EVs with and without Regen and after a very short adjustment period I preferred heavy regen. I drove for almost the whole week without touching the brakes. After that I couldn't help thinking about all the wasted energy (and brake pads) driving my ICE vehicle.

I’ve not heard of any EVs that don’t have regen. Some of them don’t have one pedal driving, with regen happening when you hit the brake pedal, or a few have a specific regen paddle (e.g. Chevy bolt). Typically it would use as much regen as the system can handle before engaging the physical brakes, just like a one pedal system does, which of course has to use physical brakes when the system can’t regen (e.g. when batteries are full, or too hot, or there’s more energy coming through than the system can absorb). But there’s no reason a good blended brake implementation would cause any more wear on the brakes than one pedal driving, and in fact the ability to coast would mean less wasted energy than a one pedal system.

 

[J Alynn]

I’ve not heard of any EVs that don’t have regen. Some of them don’t have one pedal driving, with regen happening when you hit the brake pedal, or a few have a specific regen paddle (e.g. Chevy bolt). Typically it would use as much regen as the system can handle before engaging the physical brakes, just like a one pedal system does, which of course has to use physical brakes when the system can’t regen (e.g. when batteries are full, or too hot, or there’s more energy coming through than the system can absorb). But there’s no reason a good blended brake implementation would cause any more wear on the brakes than one pedal driving, and in fact the ability to coast would mean less wasted energy than a one pedal system.

I agree with your review and think the mixed option is certainly preferred. It makes it easier for drivers who have negatives about EV’s already to adapt to something they see as “traditional”

 

[kb2crk]

Regen has its good and bad points. The ability to coast on level ground is a huge energy saver in ICE vehicles and would make sense in an EV at highway speeds. With off roading regen would be great for a long steep downhill but not so good for a slippery uphill climb where it could cause a loss of momentum if a foot gets bounced or slips off the pedal. Regen should be selectable and it could work well with a progressive brake pedal where the first part of the stroke activates the regen and further down the standard hydraulic brakes activate.

 

[JohnnyScout]

Think what happens in your current ICE vehicle when you let of the fuel (gas, diesel, cng, etc) very few disengage the transmission for true coasting and may even be illegal to coast long distance with clutch disengaged or in Neutral. EV regen braking for the masses need be no more intrusive on the senses than leaving your ICE in gear as you slow to a stop.

The other side of the coin is, and since I have never driven an EV other than a golf cart, how is hill holding accomplished in an EV. Yes the brake keeps you stationary until you release the brake but what prevents rollback on an uphill start? Or is it a skill akin to driving a manual transmission with a dance of your feet to keep from rolling back? Shouldn't an EV with zero volts applied to motor(s) be entirely freerolling

 

[R1TVT]

No, the brakes automatically hold and release with Regen when at a stop, so there is no worry of rolling back.

If you are approaching a Stop Light at the top of a hill, and you take your foot off the accelerator, the truck will decelerate, stop and HOLD on the hill (by itself) as you take your foot slowly off the accelerator. When in DRIVE, You never necessarily NEED to use the brake when stopped, b/c it is already applied. 99% of the time I am driving around with only the accelerator.

If something jumps in front of you, or you are in traffic and need to SLAM the brakes, the brake is still right there and it still works the exact same way. Part of driving an EV (for me personally) has also involved a progression to more efficient driving, anticipating slowing and coasting scenarios to gradually feather the accelerator and taking ADVANTAGE of the massive benefits regen can offer. I have said this before, but I will say it again, going back to an ICE vehicle and using mechanical brakes feels so incredibly wasteful to me now. It's pretty wild.

The ability to coast on level ground is a huge energy saver in ICE vehicles and would make sense in an EV at highway speeds. With off roading regen would be great for a long steep downhill but not so good for a slippery uphill climb where it could cause a loss of momentum

To clarify on the above, when you are in an EV and cruising on level ground as described, there is NO DIFFERENCE in "energy savings" based on coasting. This is purely a physics question... If you are moving in a straight line and in an ice or EV, you are going to need the action of either combustion or electricity to turn a motor and keep the vehicle moving forward. The ONLY difference is that you will come to a stop much fast IF you take your foot all the way OFF the accelerator in the EV and try to coast. How fast you slow depend on the settings for REGEN.

Throttle characteristics and Regen will vary from vehicle to vehicle. Throttle sensitivity is something that can be modulated and updated with SW and different drive modes. People will definitely complain about Regen. I imagine that a lot of these people have not yet fiddled with settings and are new to driving EV's. They experience higher regen settings and immediately hate it before giving it a chance, or they may not realize that they may need to adjust their driving style (based on their current settings) or change the settings in the vehicle.

Lastly, some of the settings in the Rivian (as one example) combine things like regen settings, traction control, ride height, suspension firmness AND (for lack of a better description) SW-DRIVEN THROTTLE MAPPING. The combination of all of the settings might alter sensitivity with the accelerator when driving to enable faster accelerations from a stop (for example).

SPORT MODE in the Rivian is a great example, and if you get onto a bumpy road, it might feel like the vehicle is overly sensitive to accelerations and decelerations. Switch into a more appropriate mode for the conditions and not so much.

 

[Trumpet77]

Every maker does regen brake feel a bit differently. On my Ford Maverick hybrid and Honda Accord hybrid the braking is almost seamless. The battery charge from regen braking is an awesome technological thing!

 

[J Alynn]

Every maker does regen brake feel a bit differently. On my Ford Maverick hybrid and Honda Accord hybrid the braking is almost seamless. The battery charge from regen braking is an awesome technological thing!

I concur on the Accord. I barely notice it other than seeing the needle jump in the green zone of the gauge.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

No, the brakes automatically hold and release with Regen when at a stop, so there is no worry of rolling back.

If you are approaching a Stop Light at the top of a hill, and you take your foot off the accelerator, the truck will decelerate, stop and HOLD on the hill (by itself) as you take your foot slowly off the accelerator. When in DRIVE, You never necessarily NEED to use the brake when stopped, b/c it is already applied. 99% of the time I am driving around with only the accelerator.

If something jumps in front of you, or you are in traffic and need to SLAM the brakes, the brake is still right there and it still works the exact same way. Part of driving an EV (for me personally) has also involved a progression to more efficient driving, anticipating slowing and coasting scenarios to gradually feather the accelerator and taking ADVANTAGE of the massive benefits regen can offer. I have said this before, but I will say it again, going back to an ICE vehicle and using mechanical brakes feels so incredibly wasteful to me now. It's pretty wild.


To clarify on the above, when you are in an EV and cruising on level ground as described, there is NO DIFFERENCE in "energy savings" based on coasting. This is purely a physics question... If you are moving in a straight line and in an ice or EV, you are going to need the action of either combustion or electricity to turn a motor and keep the vehicle moving forward. The ONLY difference is that you will come to a stop much fast IF you take your foot all the way OFF the accelerator in the EV and try to coast. How fast you slow depend on the settings for REGEN.

Throttle characteristics and Regen will vary from vehicle to vehicle. Throttle sensitivity is something that can be modulated and updated with SW and different drive modes. People will definitely complain about Regen. I imagine that a lot of these people have not yet fiddled with settings and are new to driving EV's. They experience higher regen settings and immediately hate it before giving it a chance, or they may not realize that they may need to adjust their driving style (based on their current settings) or change the settings in the vehicle.

Lastly, some of the settings in the Rivian (as one example) combine things like regen settings, traction control, ride height, suspension firmness AND (for lack of a better description) SW-DRIVEN THROTTLE MAPPING. The combination of all of the settings might alter sensitivity with the accelerator when driving to enable faster accelerations from a stop (for example).

SPORT MODE in the Rivian is a great example, and if you get onto a bumpy road, it might feel like the vehicle is overly sensitive to accelerations and decelerations. Switch into a more appropriate mode for the conditions and not so much.

There is a big difference between coasting and regen. There are losses in energy conversion, getting power into the battery, getting it out of the battery, not to mention limits based on capacity and conditions that all affect regen but not coasting. When you can do it, coasting is always going to be more efficient than trying to recapture and store power. Regen is much better than physical braking, where you lose everything, but it is not better than coasting, when you can coast effectively (which I find I can do a fair bit as long as I’m not driving aggressively)

 

[R1TVT]

Of course, and I understand your point about coasting. However, you can ride the line between power consumption and power recapture through regen in an EV... Not to mention, you will have energy losses in ICE or EV (for combustion or for gas).

For energy loss, and if you are going downhill on a gradient (and simply isolate 1 portion of a drive to try to MAXIMIZE the amount of distance with the least amount of resistance) of course pure coasting will be efficient... You could ride that downhill grade as far as possible, just gradually slowing over distance, until eventually your ICE vehicle comes to a slow stop, OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

In reality, that is not the way most people drive, and they would likely not coast to gain efficiency as they drop below a speed limit to see how far they can get without using energy. And as I said, with regen you will come to a stop faster and travel less distance, but you will also be sending energy back to the pack (putting any potential energy losses aside, and providing your SOC will allow for energy to be stored in the battery).

At the end of the day, and in "real world driving conditions over longer distances", regen is the winner, as your overall efficiency and range are improved. Otherwise, there would simply be no reason to utilize regen in an EV in the first place.

Here's some math and stuff if you want to really geek out, but you can see full mechanical at the lowest SOC over time:

Fig. 5.22 shows typical SOC curves of electric vehicles implementing WLTP driving cycles. It can be seen that different regenerative braking strategies generate different curves. The energy consumption using a modified regenerative braking strategy is the smallest compared to other braking strategies. The energy consumption difference becomes larger with the increasing operating time of the vehicle. The regenerative braking role becomes more significant when the electric vehicles pass through hilly terrain. In electric buses for rapid transit having a dedicated line, the regenerative braking can be maximized by absorbing as much kinetic energy as possible when the bus brakes near a bus stop.

 

[classic-driver]

My Chevy Volt PHEV also has 2 driving "gears" on the shifter.
"D" is a traditional feel and you can coast with your foot off the accelerator.
"L" is the regenerative braking mode, and of course you still have the brake pedal if needed.

Nice to have the option to coast in D. I switch between them often.