RECONSIDER EV

[J Alynn]

I hope that a 30-50 mile boost pack is something feasible with Scout. We are at a unique point in that this wouldn’t be some pie in the sky engineering feat, and Scout is literally not even designed yet.

I think it could literally give a VERY strong competitive edge for EV’s, and be rather organic and natural in appearance to the original Scout (which is what we know is one goal of the new vehicle). In my mind, the likely area to mount would be be pretty feasible.

Spitballing ideas, have it in the bottom rear where most pick-ups stow a spare tire, having it low for stable center of gravity. I am thinking Scout height would be close to a Wrangler. So a lift would probably not be needed to access. This would still allow the probable mounting of a rear mounted full size, direct replacement tire similar to how Land Cruiser, Bronco, and many other off-road capable SUV’s are.

If it’s up high (like roof mounted) that is direct conflict with efficiency, and stability. That location would also interfere if Scout did solar panels on the hood and Roof, so rear mounted (under or rear-end) for spare tire and boost pack seems the only way it would work.

The only obstacle with this is the battery pack and skateboard frame may likely Rob that typical space which would not permit that option. Assuming the typical size and stance of a mid sized SUV the frunk may offer an enclosed area which may provide space but at that point you could just purchase a small generator and toss in a small gas container and you’d have everything you could need as an off the shelf ready solution rather than custom designing low yield spare battery packs. My other concern with a spare battery pack is the summer heat coming off the asphalt and or heat build up in a frunk that would deteriorate the charge on the spare battery. Just some things to think through

 

[Trailguide79]

Liquid fuel generators are an option engineers can have pros and cons on.

Its likely the Scout will have a tow hitch, so if a customer really wants a generator there can be a way to bring it with them rather easily without having to derail engineers.

I am absolutely not dismissing your idea, I am thinking what is “going against the grain” in EV’s, and a tire sized boost pack (again, not a charger) seems to be a realistic engineering possibility by 2026, that would give a strong competitive edge to Scout, or whomever gets one 1st.

If it’s a community anything like Jeep Wranglers, it’s quite probable that many could lend one to a buddy in need. I know full and well it would be north of $6k, but something a person obviously wouldn’t lend a person they don’t know.

 

[Derek]

That is the real question if you aren't trailering your truck. What range will you have at the start of the trailhead (based on the last charge you took), and what will you have left to get back to the charger? Really no different than what you do when you travel into the backcountry on roads.. You just need to plan ahead. In northern New England there isn't a ton of infrastructure. But Rivian just added a RAN DCFC SuperCharger on the border between VT and New Hampshire. This is the crossroads for a lot of travelers heading into the mountains, so it is well placed for adventuring for things like skiing, hiking and MTB'ing. You just need to be more planful about getting back for some juice on your return. Truth be told, many ski areas & other destinations now have L2 chargers on prem, and I have charged FOR FREE many times at some locations while skiing or MTB'ing. This means you top-off while you are parked and may not need to charge on the way back to your destination, which is great of course. infrastructure will only get better.

Agreed, around here, there is trailriding 40 miles away, camping between 40-100 miles and even getting to the BDR and running a section would be like 230 miles. I'd probably go ahead and get back to 80% before heading out of a city and starting the trail, just because I'm the same kind of person who fills the tank when i'm above 1/4.

 

[JohnnyScout]

I hope that a 30-50 mile boost pack is something feasible with Scout. We are at a unique point in that this wouldn’t be some pie in the sky engineering feat, and Scout is literally not even designed yet.

I think it could literally give a VERY strong competitive edge for EV’s, and be rather organic and natural in appearance to the original Scout (which is what we know is one goal of the new vehicle). In my mind, the likely area to mount would be be pretty feasible.

Spitballing ideas, have it in the bottom rear where most pick-ups stow a spare tire, having it low for stable center of gravity. I am thinking Scout height would be close to a Wrangler. So a lift would probably not be needed to access. This would still allow the probable mounting of a rear mounted full size, direct replacement tire similar to how Land Cruiser, Bronco, and many other off-road capable SUV’s are.

If it’s up high (like roof mounted) that is direct conflict with efficiency, and stability. That location would also interfere if Scout did solar panels on the hood and Roof, so rear mounted (under or rear-end) for spare tire and boost pack seems the only way it would work.

Why not in the frunk? Should be nothing there other than space

 

[61ih80]

In the boating world, when I venture off shore, I alot 1/3 of my fuel for going out, then 1/3 of my fuel for the return. This has always allowed me to "enjoy" my venture even if the fish were not biting.

 

[Trailguide79]

Why not in the frunk? Should be nothing there other than space

It’s not anything bad for a frunk, and potentially when engineers look at what best gives stable weight ratios and close to 50/50 weight distribution that may be ideal, but if the boost pack comes from the factory, they will likely need to figure that frunk mounting in crash tests….and if it helps with added safety….,that will almost certainly be the answer with frunk storage. Its a great option, one hopefully design engineers will have many tests and meetings on.

I just think that if this is north of 75 pounds, it’s best to keep the tried and true of keeping the battery (but in this case BOOST PACK) low as to enhance stability. It would be akin to a second fuel tank (with range only 30-50 miles), but could than be lowered down from where pick ups currently have spares mounted….maybe even rolled, if it’s large tire sized to the camp site as power for the campsite as well.

We know the tech is getting better and smaller, and we know that ingenuity is what pulls a great deal of us from ICE to EV.

After all, if EV’s were slow, bare bones, have amazing stability due to where weight is mounted, and didn’t push ingenuity, only fringe folks with backgrounds in electrical engineering would likely get an EV like that.

If Scout is the 1st to deliver a boost pack that can be swapped to other Scout owners in need, it would help create the community that Jeep Wrangler has evolved into.

When a Wrangler is stuck on a trail, another Wrangler Will try to get them unstuck, if a Wrangler is broken down, another Wrangler owner Will stop and try to help, so its more than just a “hand waving, Hello”.

So this “possible” Scout boost pack is literally a harmonizer to a future community.

While this potential boost pack could also be on a rear swing arm, again crash tests would need a lot of added simulations to ensure minimum damage to customers, and likely their pets.

Depending on how the power is put down, front vs rear, rear vs front biased drive wheels, it’s beneficial for traction in snow, and any other off-road terrain.

I would love to say that a central air compressor/tire pressure monitor, AND that built in air compressor would be available to connect a air hose to air up other people’s tires would allow:

1)ride height suspension changes on the fly
2)increase or decrease tire pressures for ideal traction and/or efficiency
3)even if a tire puncture happens, it would need to be VERY catastrophic for the compressor to be unable to maintain a safe tire psi
4)be the “hero of the day” for those that need an air up.

The central air compressor is used extensively with 18 wheelers to gain MPG by keeping ideal tire pressure at different temps and altitude, and save premature tire wear. It is also used in many military vehicles that I have been in to get to a safe area, to change a tire.

****I mentioned all that, because a true spare tire may not even be needed with a future Scout, and air compressor/pneumatic technology isn’t prohibitively expensive, and is SMALL, not taking up much space.

This would again give a competitive EDGE to Scout, without breaking the bank, and allow more flexibility to where this potential boost pack can be mounted, as a spare would be almost unnecessary unless a highly catastrophic puncture is sustained. Allowing the boost pack to be mounted where Jeep Wranglers have their rear “swing arm” tire carrier.

Caveat being rear crash tests, but again ideal boost pack mounting would be low, but the next best mounting area would be where added weight is additive to enhancing traction. That place would be where Jeep Wrangler mounts spare tires.

I think most will agree the technology will evolve to be available for an added boost pack by 2026, that is reasonable on a vehicle that should absolutely be south of $60k.

Engineers will decide the best placement for safety, efficiency, accessibility, and candidly speaking theft resistance (even with GPS tracking devices being cheap and common). Vehicle insurance will be the entity that absorbs the cost, and I am sure the factory will do a good job of deterrence, and aftermarket making some “bulletproof” options that make theft of a boost pack rendering the juice (literally), not being worth the squeeze.

Does anyone else believe a 30+ mile boost extender will give Scout a profound competitive edge?

What is the forums thoughts on a properly powered air-compressor to negate the necessity of a spare, for better tire wear, increased traction, and hook up for a air hose to assist buddies (or future buddies) with capacity to air up their tires?

 

[J Alynn]

It’s not anything bad for a frunk, and potentially when engineers look at what best gives stable weight ratios and close to 50/50 weight distribution that may be ideal, but if the boost pack comes from the factory, they will likely need to figure that frunk mounting in crash tests….and if it helps with added safety….,that will almost certainly be the answer with frunk storage. Its a great option, one hopefully design engineers will have many tests and meetings on.

I just think that if this is north of 75 pounds, it’s best to keep the tried and true of keeping the battery (but in this case BOOST PACK) low as to enhance stability. It would be akin to a second fuel tank (with range only 30-50 miles), but could than be lowered down from where pick ups currently have spares mounted….maybe even rolled, if it’s large tire sized to the camp site as power for the campsite as well.

We know the tech is getting better and smaller, and we know that ingenuity is what pulls a great deal of us from ICE to EV.

After all, if EV’s were slow, bare bones, have amazing stability due to where weight is mounted, and didn’t push ingenuity, only fringe folks with backgrounds in electrical engineering would likely get an EV like that.

If Scout is the 1st to deliver a boost pack that can be swapped to other Scout owners in need, it would help create the community that Jeep Wrangler has evolved into.

When a Wrangler is stuck on a trail, another Wrangler Will try to get them unstuck, if a Wrangler is broken down, another Wrangler owner Will stop and try to help, so its more than just a “hand waving, Hello”.

So this “possible” Scout boost pack is literally a harmonizer to a future community.

While this potential boost pack could also be on a rear swing arm, again crash tests would need a lot of added simulations to ensure minimum damage to customers, and likely their pets.

Depending on how the power is put down, front vs rear, rear vs front biased drive wheels, it’s beneficial for traction in snow, and any other off-road terrain.

I would love to say that a central air compressor/tire pressure monitor, AND that built in air compressor would be available to connect a air hose to air up other people’s tires would allow:

1)ride height suspension changes on the fly
2)increase or decrease tire pressures for ideal traction and/or efficiency
3)even if a tire puncture happens, it would need to be VERY catastrophic for the compressor to be unable to maintain a safe tire psi
4)be the “hero of the day” for those that need an air up.

The central air compressor is used extensively with 18 wheelers to gain MPG by keeping ideal tire pressure at different temps and altitude, and save premature tire wear. It is also used in many military vehicles that I have been in to get to a safe area, to change a tire.

****I mentioned all that, because a true spare tire may not even be needed with a future Scout, and air compressor/pneumatic technology isn’t prohibitively expensive, and is SMALL, not taking up much space.

This would again give a competitive EDGE to Scout, without breaking the bank, and allow more flexibility to where this potential boost pack can be mounted, as a spare would be almost unnecessary unless a highly catastrophic puncture is sustained. Allowing the boost pack to be mounted where Jeep Wranglers have their rear “swing arm” tire carrier.

Caveat being rear crash tests, but again ideal boost pack mounting would be low, but the next best mounting area would be where added weight is additive to enhancing traction. That place would be where Jeep Wrangler mounts spare tires.

I think most will agree the technology will evolve to be available for an added boost pack by 2026, that is reasonable on a vehicle that should absolutely be south of $60k.

Engineers will decide the best placement for safety, efficiency, accessibility, and candidly speaking theft resistance (even with GPS tracking devices being cheap and common). Vehicle insurance will be the entity that absorbs the cost, and I am sure the factory will do a good job of deterrence, and aftermarket making some “bulletproof” options that make theft of a boost pack rendering the juice (literally), not being worth the squeeze.

Does anyone else believe a 30+ mile boost extender will give Scout a profound competitive edge?

What is the forums thoughts on a properly powered air-compressor to negate the necessity of a spare, for better tire wear, increased traction, and hook up for a air hose to assist buddies (or future buddies) with capacity to air up their tires?

I don’t ever plan on hard core use of a vehicle that will cost between $50-$60k so I can’t add much on the extender bit. That said I’m in a suburban area in a house so I suspect most charging will occur at home. We have a Bronco which will do our long drive travels and Scout will be a local daily driver/third fun car if top is removable.
As for the spare and the air I think it would be worth looking at run flat tires. If EV tires are already designed differently than standard all season tires why not just go run flat. The cost of those versus a couple $100 for a compressor set up would benefit everyone. I’m curious how common the tires will be from the standpoint of replacement. Other than Rivian (and Hummer-but different animal all together) I question who is using/making specialized larger tires with EV usage. You likely aren’t just gonna run down to Costco and pick up a matched set so that is something that needs to be considered. As I sit here thinking I almost think I’d be more fearful of that scenario than running out of juice. Granted you’d have a spare but imagine having run flats - no need to figure out where to store the spare on the Scout. This would also then provide space for the booster you want to have.

 

[Trailguide79]

Run flat technology would have to change a lot as the EV’s are considerably heavier than vehicles that have historically used them in production vehicles.

So the sidewall in EV’s would have to be profoundly more rigid. With the rigidity comes weight, and at the worst place to have it, close to the diameter of the tire. Tire manufacturers are able to use different compounds to reduce weight, and increase efficiency, but they are also able to run a thinner sidewall to increase efficiency (historically enhance MPG). Run flats are substantially heavier and thicker on the sidewall. Thats one of the reasons that run flats have fallen out of favor, they aren’t efficient due to weight, are very punishing on ride quality, and aren’t cost effective compared to a high performing tire. Vehicles I have had run flats on, I would change out to different all seasons within a week of ownership. That was well over 15 years ago, and I know things change, but the ride is still rough and they are very heavy last I checked.

So that doesn’t dismiss re-evaluating of run-flats, provided they aren’t heavy. I remember reading somewhere that one pound of unsprung weight is equal to 8 pounds or more of static weight. That depends on a lot of factors though, and is grossly oversimplified.
I think most of this group is aware that polymers, compounds, and materials are always changing. So if it’s light and cost effective, with a newer design ….it will make the cut.

Compressors are very inexpensive, compact (can be used in exotics to clear speed bumps), and light.

Your point still remains though that Costco, and other vendors likely would need to order more specialized tires.

I have ran into this before, to the point where I have a 5th direct replacement wheel and tire for the 3 vehicles in my family. After learning a life lesson that a specialized performance tire can easily take 3 days to arrive (even pre-pandemic) if you get a serious enough puncture. For me, that 5th wheel and tire direct replacement acts like MAGIC to keep flats away, of course I am partially joking. What it really does is ensure my vehicle isn’t deadlined for 2-3 days easily.

 

[JohnnyScout]

It can be difficult to find a tire service station that can work on runflats. It takes a different or more powerful tire machine. And nobody I found would even think of plugging a nail hole in a runflat (my experience)

That being said, if an EV does not employ any different load rating tires than a 2.5 ton Bronco-Defender-Suburban etc. And the EV can hit the scales at less than 2.5 tons then runflays should not be an issue.

Guess I never thought of it but how much does a Tesla X weigh? About 5200# it seems. Which is 500# less than a Bronco Raptor. Not that a BRP is a candidate for runflats any more than a Tesla is off road capable.

 

[Trailguide79]

Then the question is will the tires be all terrain like a heavy Bronco Raptor (more added unsprung weight) or would Scout keep sensible commuting tires?

This can be a critical point of efficiency…. Same wheels but with meaty all terrain tires lost 4mpg in an older Wrangler I had, when switched back to street-able all-season tires the inverse happened. I gained 4 MPG.

So, why should this be important to an EV?

For the same reason why some people have flat hubcaps on fringe EV’s….efficiency.

What I HOPE Scout does is come from the factory with a stout wheel (maybe even forged, as forged wheels aren’t as fringe as they were 15 years ago) that is accommodating to a tough and meaty (yet range zapping) all-terrain tire, that won’t look silly if a customer goes with an all season.

Optional tires are something Wrangler does, and optional wheels almost EVERY manufacturer has.

I have had a commute with a Wrangler that had serious all terrains that was a daily driver years ago. After a month I switched to steel wheel all seasons, and seemed to be able to be 4-5 mpg mpg with a much less noisy ride. If I went to visit family with snow, or a off-road gathering, I would toss on all-terrains.

If nothing else this post is bringing out awareness that if a customer doesn’t already have a basic amount of tools and space, Scout unfortunately won’t work.

I mentioned this as my late 20’s I lived in a 450sqft apartment in NYC….yep 450, that thankfully had secure parking.

I literally turned the spare tire set into non-trashy 2 tire thick coffee tables that I had tempered glass on top, and had a surprising amount of compliments that I did this with end tables, even after I moved to a place with more space. A jack and some other tools stayed stowed in the Wrangler

It unfortunately makes me think how less realistic a Scout may be (at least initially) for an average person in a large city, such as NYC.

This would leave Scout likely going for tires that aren’t the rugged and nobby all-terrain, but I hope they still go with a forged wheel (as they are light) from the factory.

Does anyone in the group have optimism or pessimism on how wheels and tires will be a serious component for range, strength, and look?

Swaps are easy, but most people don’t buy a brand new vehicle and have new wheels on it the same week.

Thoughts?

 

[J Alynn]

Then the question is will the tires be all terrain like a heavy Bronco Raptor (more added unsprung weight) or would Scout keep sensible commuting tires?

This can be a critical point of efficiency…. Same wheels but with meaty all terrain tires lost 4mpg in an older Wrangler I had, when switched back to street-able all-season tires the inverse happened. I gained 4 MPG.

So, why should this be important to an EV?

For the same reason why some people have flat hubcaps on fringe EV’s….efficiency.

What I HOPE Scout does is come from the factory with a stout wheel (maybe even forged, as forged wheels aren’t as fringe as they were 15 years ago) that is accommodating to a tough and meaty (yet range zapping) all-terrain tire, that won’t look silly if a customer goes with an all season.

Optional tires are something Wrangler does, and optional wheels almost EVERY manufacturer has.

I have had a commute with a Wrangler that had serious all terrains that was a daily driver years ago. After a month I switched to steel wheel all seasons, and seemed to be able to be 4-5 mpg mpg with a much less noisy ride. If I went to visit family with snow, or a off-road gathering, I would toss on all-terrains.

If nothing else this post is bringing out awareness that if a customer doesn’t already have a basic amount of tools and space, Scout unfortunately won’t work.

I mentioned this as my late 20’s I lived in a 450sqft apartment in NYC….yep 450, that thankfully had secure parking.

I literally turned the spare tire set into non-trashy 2 tire thick coffee tables that I had tempered glass on top, and had a surprising amount of compliments that I did this with end tables, even after I moved to a place with more space. A jack and some other tools stayed stowed in the Wrangler

It unfortunately makes me think how less realistic a Scout may be (at least initially) for an average person in a large city, such as NYC.

This would leave Scout likely going for tires that aren’t the rugged and nobby all-terrain, but I hope they still go with a forged wheel (as they are light) from the factory.

Does anyone in the group have optimism or pessimism on how wheels and tires will be a serious component for range, strength, and look?

Swaps are easy, but most people don’t buy a brand new vehicle and have new wheels on it the same week.

Thoughts?

Gonna run all terrains. The nubby tires are too loud on road and fuel/range drop is other reason. Those who want to off road regularly can do as you did and store that set. If it drives on road as nicely as the Bronco then I’m in it for the ride quality of 95% of my life being on pavement. Bronco did decent with out the gate rims/wheels and seems they now have more options as I got an email 2 weeks ago with sale prices. That said stick with daily driver wheels out the door and let enthusiasts change out as they please.
Just my 2 cents worth

 

[R1TVT]

I switch between Nokian Hakka's in the winter (slightly heavier, higher load rating, but roll a little easier) and AT's in summer. Pirelli and Rivian did a nice collab here for an EV specific AT that is beefy enough, but QUIET and rolls well!

PIRELLI SCORPION ALL TERRAIN: THE OFF-ROAD TIRE​

Pirelli's 275/65R20 off-road tire, the Scorpion All Terrain Plus, was also specifically developed for the R1T and R1S with electric adventure in mind.
The Scorpion All Terrain Plus is Pirelli's On-/Off- Road All-Terrain light truck tire developed for drivers of pickup trucks, crossovers, and SUVs who want a balanced blend of on-road civility with off-road capability. The Scorpion All Terrain Plus is designed with a focus on optimizing durability, traction and wear resistance, in addition to providing snow traction: it gained indeed the three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) symbol.
The Scorpion All Terrain Plus is molded into a symmetric, high-void pattern. This pattern is designed to provide smooth and quiet on-road operation along with aggressive looks and confident off-road traction. Deep grooves and independent tread blocks help provide the clawing action needed to find grip in loose terrain, and conical stone ejectors resist punctures by forcing small rocks from the tread.
In this case, the challenge to create a dedicated version of these tires for Rivian has been to match their low rolling resistance targets with the off-road applications of the Scorpion All Terrain.
To achieve this result, Pirelli's engineers designed a dedicated mold in order to reduce the weight of the tire, adding then a special compound for light trucks that made the tires more resistant to cuts and lacerations.

Pirelli tires tailor made for Rivian

Pirelli has developed special versions of Scorpion tire range specifically for R1T, the first electric pickup truck in the world, and R1S, the electric suv.

www.pirelli.com

 

[LastDayScout]

Then the question is will the tires be all terrain like a heavy Bronco Raptor (more added unsprung weight) or would Scout keep sensible commuting tires?

This can be a critical point of efficiency…. Same wheels but with meaty all terrain tires lost 4mpg in an older Wrangler I had, when switched back to street-able all-season tires the inverse happened. I gained 4 MPG.

So, why should this be important to an EV?

For the same reason why some people have flat hubcaps on fringe EV’s….efficiency.

What I HOPE Scout does is come from the factory with a stout wheel (maybe even forged, as forged wheels aren’t as fringe as they were 15 years ago) that is accommodating to a tough and meaty (yet range zapping) all-terrain tire, that won’t look silly if a customer goes with an all season.

Optional tires are something Wrangler does, and optional wheels almost EVERY manufacturer has.

I have had a commute with a Wrangler that had serious all terrains that was a daily driver years ago. After a month I switched to steel wheel all seasons, and seemed to be able to be 4-5 mpg mpg with a much less noisy ride. If I went to visit family with snow, or a off-road gathering, I would toss on all-terrains.

If nothing else this post is bringing out awareness that if a customer doesn’t already have a basic amount of tools and space, Scout unfortunately won’t work.

I mentioned this as my late 20’s I lived in a 450sqft apartment in NYC….yep 450, that thankfully had secure parking.

I literally turned the spare tire set into non-trashy 2 tire thick coffee tables that I had tempered glass on top, and had a surprising amount of compliments that I did this with end tables, even after I moved to a place with more space. A jack and some other tools stayed stowed in the Wrangler

It unfortunately makes me think how less realistic a Scout may be (at least initially) for an average person in a large city, such as NYC.

This would leave Scout likely going for tires that aren’t the rugged and nobby all-terrain, but I hope they still go with a forged wheel (as they are light) from the factory.

Does anyone in the group have optimism or pessimism on how wheels and tires will be a serious component for range, strength, and look?

Swaps are easy, but most people don’t buy a brand new vehicle and have new wheels on it the same week.

Thoughts?

It makes a difference for sure. But, technology is increasing in the tire world too. I mentioned long ago that Michelin would be an excellent OE supplier as they are in SC as well. They make the Defender series of tires there. I am sure they could come up with a OE spec tire with all terrain capabilities, snowflake ratings and still have good range.