RECONSIDER EV

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my'61from'61

New member
May 5, 2024
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I see from watching the CEO remarks at a recent forum, there is still a fixation on keeping the new Scout all electric. This is a grave error and will bring this new venture to a quick end. Trying to equate legacy and tradition with all electric, is a false characterization. The Scout is traditional America. It has a legacy of power, ruggedness and freedom. Freedom to travel anywhere at any time for any reason. NO LIMITS.
I have my father's 1961 Scout 80 in my garage. He purchased in new, and it is in its original state. I still drive and plow snow with it and I will never sell it. It is part of me.
So, can speak for the Scout community and what we love about this vehicle. We love the engine sound, the drive line, the clutching the shifting and the sense of being integrated with the truck in motion. We love to work on it and getting to know it mechanically, and not being so disconnected from its workings and personality. Scout enthusiasts do not take their vehicles for granted, and they want to be able to take on their own maintenance and repairs as much as possible
An EV is a throw away vehicle, it will get thrown away once it becomes too expensive to repair and the value plummets. Not to mention, how EV's burn up for some reason, or when they crash.
When I found out about the new Scout Motors, it was a guaranty that I would be the first online to purchase. Hower ever, never EV. There is no tradition or legacy in that. You can go ahead and make a Scout body style, but we in the Scout community are most interested in what is beneath. It is the heart and soul that matters. A Scout body with EV power is a fake and will never share the legacy of INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER.
There are many combustion engines that would well serve the new Scout to consider. This is where Scout needs to go to be successful. If not, Scout will fail and fail quickly.
The decisions made at the highest level, must be mature and independent of the climate religion.
 
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I feel EV's do have a future and should be a consumer choice between the original or EV versions. However, the actual problem is not the vehicles. It's the infrastructure. Until the charging systems are on a level playing field and readily available like gas stations. EV's will not make it long-term. For this reason, I have not looked into any EV personally.
 
I see from watching the CEO remarks at a recent forum, there is still a fixation on keeping the new Scout all electric. This is a grave error and will bring this new venture to a quick end. Trying to equate legacy and tradition with all electric, is a false characterization. The Scout is traditional America. It has a legacy of power, ruggedness and freedom. Freedom to travel anywhere at any time for any reason. NO LIMITS.
I have my father's 1961 Scout 80 in my garage. He purchased in new, and it is in its original state. I still drive and plow snow with it and I will never sell it. It is part of me.
So, can speak for the Scout community and what we love about this vehicle. We love the engine sound, the drive line, the clutching the shifting and the sense of being integrated with the truck in motion. We love to work on it and getting to know it mechanically, and not being so disconnected from its workings and personality. Scout enthusiasts do not take their vehicles for granted, and they want to be able to take on their own maintenance and repairs as much as possible
An EV is a throw away vehicle, it will get thrown away once it becomes too expensive to repair and the value plummets. Not to mention, how EV's burn up for some reason, or when they crash.
When I found out about the new Scout Motors, it was a guaranty that I would be the first online to purchase. Hower ever, never EV. There is no tradition or legacy in that. You can go ahead and make a Scout body style, but we in the Scout community are most interested in what is beneath. It is the heart and soul that matters. A Scout body with EV power is a fake and will never share the legacy of INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER.
There are many combustion engines that would well serve the new Scout to consider. This is where Scout needs to go to be successful. If not, Scout will fail and fail quickly.
The decisions made at the highest level, must be mature and independent of the climate religion.
I suppose you could always turn your old gas Scout back into a horse?
 
To get VW to veer sideways from the 100% EV direction for Scout Motors would be like getting Elon Musk to offer Ford Coyote V8s in Teslas. Not gonna happen.

The best that might be hoped for down the road might be extended range options with small 2 litre or less VW diesels to run a generator. If they use a traditional to date EV approach of simply replacing an ICE with an electric motor then they are truly nearsighted and living in the past.

A truly cutting edge offroad capable EV would not have any driveshafts but instead 4 wheelmotors. Lacking that approach then 2 electric motors 1 per axle but even then traditional differentials take up too much real estate especially for rock crawling. Look no further than Kubota for front axle differentials small enough to slide inside a 3" tube. Look at Mack Truck where diffs are turned 90° and power enters through the top.

The number of required differentials is inverse to the number of motive power sources, be it gas, diesel, or electric. 1 motor per wheel, even if mounted inboard and employing swing axles, and diffs can and should be all software
,
 
I see from watching the CEO remarks at a recent forum, there is still a fixation on keeping the new Scout all electric. This is a grave error and will bring this new venture to a quick end. Trying to equate legacy and tradition with all electric, is a false characterization. The Scout is traditional America. It has a legacy of power, ruggedness and freedom. Freedom to travel anywhere at any time for any reason. NO LIMITS.
I have my father's 1961 Scout 80 in my garage. He purchased in new, and it is in its original state. I still drive and plow snow with it and I will never sell it. It is part of me.
So, can speak for the Scout community and what we love about this vehicle. We love the engine sound, the drive line, the clutching the shifting and the sense of being integrated with the truck in motion. We love to work on it and getting to know it mechanically, and not being so disconnected from its workings and personality. Scout enthusiasts do not take their vehicles for granted, and they want to be able to take on their own maintenance and repairs as much as possible
An EV is a throw away vehicle, it will get thrown away once it becomes too expensive to repair and the value plummets. Not to mention, how EV's burn up for some reason, or when they crash.
When I found out about the new Scout Motors, it was a guaranty that I would be the first online to purchase. Hower ever, never EV. There is no tradition or legacy in that. You can go ahead and make a Scout body style, but we in the Scout community are most interested in what is beneath. It is the heart and soul that matters. A Scout body with EV power is a fake and will never share the legacy of INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER.
There are many combustion engines that would well serve the new Scout to consider. This is where Scout needs to go to be successful. If not, Scout will fail and fail quickly.
The decisions made at the highest level, must be mature and independent of the climate religion.
It’s a good thing you have a gas powered Scout so you can continually repair the engine and all the rusted body panels. If SM started this whole project strictly to cater to the 4,000-5,000 current Scout owners they’d never even get it off the ground. The world continues to evolve and for the better. I’d like to think my future/non-existent grand children will have a better earth since we and our previous generations have slowly destroyed it because nobody likes nor desires change.
As I’ve said a dozen times-read the forum threads and learn about the pros of EV. If you are open minded you’ll learn a lot (I certainly did/have) and co time to weekly. If you don’t desire change then accept that you own a piece of current history and sit on the side lines and watch the rest of us enjoy our new Scouts.
Jamie and the team have had lots of conversations with enthusiasts and with some open minded listening you may realize like many of them that their are many merits to an off-road capable EV.
And please, and I’m crossing the line a bit. Quit starting more new threads to say no EV Scout. There are plenty already and the stance at SM seems to be EV. A 2 billion dollar commitment last I heard both on the forum and in the media.
Jeep Wranglers have been around FOREVER and until Bronco they kept doing things the same. Now they are evolving and now Hybrid and upcoming EV models. If it wasn’t viable I doubt Jeep would be planning it along with every other major vehicle manufacturer.
 
While infrastructure may not currently be where people want it to be for recharging.

What we do know is that Scout will be off road and rugged.

Likely with all the add ons that allow a tent on the roof, numerous hitches, winches, etc. Perhaps, the ability for a power pack hitch, spare tire sized battery, or Jerry can that allows plug in WHILE driving, and allowing range of 10miles (Jerry can) through 50 miles (hitch instead).

Pretty sure it would be a $3-6k+ add on, but range anxiety is real, and some people literally will go to the grave……refusing to adapt or adopt like people did with horses and cars.
I know I won’t be in that position. Candidly, Scout won’t be for them.

Asked TODAY in May 2024, about full EV as my only vehicle……absolutely NOT. I would give the nod to a PHEV, similar to a Jeep Wrangler 4Xe. Plenty will change by 2026 though.

Change…as scary or good as it may seem will happen. The auxiliary power pack option that allows charge while in motion is the best I can dream up.

Frankly, wether it’s a generator, or supplemental battery pack, I am surprised no vendor has cornered this market.
 
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1. Keep in mind that the actual number of rock crawling owners traveling 100's of miles into the wilderness is an edge case
2. Whether scout likes it or not, buyers will be more likely to crawl a mall curb than a boulder
3. In the real-world, ruggedness and performance will likely be on things like beaches, class IV roads, farms and mountain passes
4. a PHEV is a bad compromise, too many systems, eliminates all EV storage and requires way more maintenance - its a half measure
5. Generating power off the hitch is a BAD IDEA. That is a huge range limiter in and off itself due to laws of physics

That said, and for extreme use cases for overlanding, you can certainly tow a power generator designed for your wherever you want:
 
1. Keep in mind that the actual number of rock crawling owners traveling 100's of miles into the wilderness is an edge case
2. Whether scout likes it or not, buyers will be more likely to crawl a mall curb than a boulder
3. In the real-world, ruggedness and performance will likely be on things like beaches, class IV roads, farms and mountain passes
4. a PHEV is a bad compromise, too many systems, eliminates all EV storage and requires way more maintenance - its a half measure
5. Generating power off the hitch is a BAD IDEA. That is a huge range limiter in and off itself due to laws of physics

That said, and for extreme use cases for overlanding, you can certainly tow a power generator designed for your wherever you want:
Great feedback and response. The expected range is 300-350 miles from my understanding. Here are some popular trails in the U.S. Source was a simple Google search. Assuming this is accurate, a 300-350 mile range is plenty but I would like to see the ability to see a battery pack option, someone mentioned in the form of a Jerry Can.

-Rubicon trail 22 miles
-Alpine Loop Trail @ Bend Bend 63mi
-Mojave Trail Loop 150mi
-Hell Revenge 6.5mi
-Black Bear Pass 8.5mi
 
Great feedback and response. The expected range is 300-350 miles from my understanding. Here are some popular trails in the U.S. Source was a simple Google search. Assuming this is accurate, a 300-350 mile range is plenty but I would like to see the ability to see a battery pack option, someone mentioned in the form of a Jerry Can.

-Rubicon trail 22 miles
-Alpine Loop Trail @ Bend Bend 63mi
-Mojave Trail Loop 150mi
-Hell Revenge 6.5mi
-Black Bear Pass 8.5mi
Thanks for sharing this info. Hopefully this will help ease a lot of the hard core ney-sayers. Would be interesting to track the nearest charging stations to those trail heads to see what the overall run really is
 
That is the real question if you aren't trailering your truck. What range will you have at the start of the trailhead (based on the last charge you took), and what will you have left to get back to the charger? Really no different than what you do when you travel into the backcountry on roads.. You just need to plan ahead. In northern New England there isn't a ton of infrastructure. But Rivian just added a RAN DCFC SuperCharger on the border between VT and New Hampshire. This is the crossroads for a lot of travelers heading into the mountains, so it is well placed for adventuring for things like skiing, hiking and MTB'ing. You just need to be more planful about getting back for some juice on your return. Truth be told, many ski areas & other destinations now have L2 chargers on prem, and I have charged FOR FREE many times at some locations while skiing or MTB'ing. This means you top-off while you are parked and may not need to charge on the way back to your destination, which is great of course. infrastructure will only get better.
 
1. Keep in mind that the actual number of rock crawling owners traveling 100's of miles into the wilderness is an edge case
2. Whether scout likes it or not, buyers will be more likely to crawl a mall curb than a boulder
3. In the real-world, ruggedness and performance will likely be on things like beaches, class IV roads, farms and mountain passes
4. a PHEV is a bad compromise, too many systems, eliminates all EV storage and requires way more maintenance - its a half measure
5. Generating power off the hitch is a BAD IDEA. That is a huge range limiter in and off itself due to laws of physics

That said, and for extreme use cases for overlanding, you can certainly tow a power generator designed for your wherever you want:
PHEV’s today (2024) are not a bad compromise, and they are quite successful for Jeep 4Xe and others.

I am sure in late 2025 and 2026 I will agree with you completely.

You make sense with the potential target market, likely not seeing too much wilderness, but range anxiety is quite real. I live in Columbia, SC where Scouts will be built. I can travel about 20 miles (maybe even closer) before I can find actual dirt roads, and loose service for most all cell phone carriers.

I rethought the generator aspect, and saw some ideas others posed of “battery” Jerry cans for aux power or range. Auxiliary power packs on the hitch, a Jerry can, or maybe spare tire area (rear mounted or underneath), could ease many people’s concerns (in no way am I suggesting no full size spare).

While most of my life has been in major metropolitan cities, I now live in the capital of SC, and it still is not far to be rather rural, where even a tow truck could be waiting the majority of a day or night.

I fortunately don’t need another vehicle today, as I would like to be all into EV. Until better charging infrastructure is around (probably 2026) if I needed a vehicle, and it was my only vehicle….I would go PHEV.
As much of an automotive enthusiast as I am with ICE vehicles, I know a sensible yet swappable range extender, if practical, will be something that helps myself and others buy a vehicle like a Scout if it was their ONLY vehicle today in May 2024.

Having lived in many areas and countries, I am certain infrastructure is not where it needs to be currently, if Scout was full EV, and it was a persons sole vehicle. It would get old real quick to have to rent a vehicle for a roadtrip or camping trip.

My discussion isn’t to argue, legitimately this concept is phenomenal that a manufacturer is soliciting input from future customers.

I WANT Scout to be successful, and am hopeful to open dialogue for options besides “plan ahead”. We also like the freedom to get in and go.

In medical life support, we have “hot swappable” batteries and the spare tire, hitch, or Jerry can are The best solution I can pose.

What options do you propose to give back the feeling of freedom knowing you can drive and go….even into the wilderness with that sense of freedom vs anxiety of being stranded?
 
The name Scout may be familiar but Scout Motors is a brand spanking new from the ground up enterprise. No different than Polestar, Rivian, Tesla, Fiskar, Canoo.

If VW group just wanted to produce a vehicle with different fuel options they would not have gone to this expense but just start spitting them out on existing assembly lines.

Will they misjudge and fall flat like Rivian or Fiskar? Will BYD bring $10,000 EVs to our Shores? All unknown and no amount of griping and complaing that they are destroying brand forgets that the brand already was dead. Hey, I used to bleed pontiac but would take an all electric GTO capable of 3 second 0'60 anyday
 
In medical life support, we have “hot swappable” batteries and the spare tire, hitch, or Jerry can are The best solution I can pose.

What options do you propose to give back the feeling of freedom knowing you can drive and go….even into the wilderness with that sense of freedom vs anxiety of being stranded?

Hot swappable EV batteries are a bad idea for many reasons (ubiquity, safety, weight, expense, etc, etc,)

I have never taken Jerry Jugs into the wilderness, and have not felt a lack of freedom in the Northeast, but I'm not in the middle of AK.
 
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To be clear, Rivian has hardly fallen flat, and were first to market with what is arguably an incredible and game-changing EV Truck and SUV... They set the bar high.

Rivian stock on the other hand - now that is a different story, but one that is completely understandable given what they have been through with the pandemic, supply chain, labor market, opening a new factory, rising interest rates, etc.
 
I must add as a former buyer of a new Scout II TERRA I bought in 1978, after owning a used 1973 I bought in 76. I will add this, if the new Scout III? Is an all EV? Count me out! Especially if the price is high enough to make it impossible for a retired old guy like me have enough disposable money for one vehicle in our household. So I need a vehicle we can get in and travel with any range anxiety. I will rather pay for gas/fuel, for the convenience of quick refills every 300-400 miles or so, than have a 200 mile radius of travel limit, that I might get to plug in somewhere to make it home. No make the new Scout with at least a hybrid plug in type, or I’ll stick with an ICE.
 
You may want to read up on the new SM, and spend some time reading posts on this site... There is no ICE or HYBRID Scout III being built at the new factory in SC. That is not something people are here to debate. That ship sailed long ago into a fading, smoggy horizon.
 
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Hot swappable EV batteries are a bad idea for many reasons (ubiquity, safety, weight, expense, etc, etc,)

I have never taken Jerry Jugs into the wilderness, and have not felt a lack of freedom in the Northeast, but I'm not in the middle of AK.
Historically, hot swappable EV batteries have been a bad idea.

Evolution of EV technology could absolutely make them lighter, less expensive, and so on.

I’ll reiterate…..I WANT Scout to be successful, with that I believe we need to look at avenues that may have been dismissed only a few years ago, and go against the grain a bit.

I truly believe “buy in” for many people on the fence about EV’s…..especially if the Scout is their only vehicle will want something like this.

You and I will likely buy a Scout, but I am just not discounting a large population that could be “pulled over” if there was a SPARE TIRE sized range extender….not recharger for clarity.

I get it that a Jerry can probably won’t work in 2024, but the bit larger sized Spare tire range extender in 2026 should.

Is that truly naive of me?

I am posting non-incendiary possibilities that can help others come into the EV community sooner is that a bad thing?
 
No, not a bad idea at all - this is all new territory for lots of people. When I think about swappable batteries VS. taking a charge to top-off, I think a lot about infrastructure and the expense that comes with it. There are those that want to swap the ENTIRE battery while out on the road (I know that is not what you are talking about), but thought it should be mentioned, bc that type of infrastructure would be pretty crazy AND we are already on the build path for the expansion of DCFC charging stations everywhere. Hot-swapping the whole battery pack is def a non-starter I think.

The boost pack you are referring too would really be a back up for peace of mind, so that is a valid point. With new technology, perhaps you could get something the size of a spare tire to hold enough juice to get meaningful range increases, and you could somehow toggle to take juice from the spare battery and send it into the main battery pack when you hit a low SOC...

What happens when you want to take the battery off is a bit of a question that poses more questions around safety, storage, liability, etc. All I know is that people do not like lifting spare truck tires, and a spare truck tire-sized battery that might need to come on and off the vehicle would likely be very heavy. in reality, where I live I would likely not need one unless maybe venturing way north along the Canadian border for a week-long fishing trip or backcountry ski trip to Katahdin or something like that. (which would be edge cases, of course)
 
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I hope that a 30-50 mile boost pack is something feasible with Scout. We are at a unique point in that this wouldn’t be some pie in the sky engineering feat, and Scout is literally not even designed yet.

I think it could literally give a VERY strong competitive edge for EV’s, and be rather organic and natural in appearance to the original Scout (which is what we know is one goal of the new vehicle). In my mind, the likely area to mount would be be pretty feasible.

Spitballing ideas, have it in the bottom rear where most pick-ups stow a spare tire, having it low for stable center of gravity. I am thinking Scout height would be close to a Wrangler. So a lift would probably not be needed to access. This would still allow the probable mounting of a rear mounted full size, direct replacement tire similar to how Land Cruiser, Bronco, and many other off-road capable SUV’s are.

If it’s up high (like roof mounted) that is direct conflict with efficiency, and stability. That location would also interfere if Scout did solar panels on the hood and Roof, so rear mounted (under or rear-end) for spare tire and boost pack seems the only way it would work.