Regenerative Braking and Flat towing, "four-down towing" or "dinghy towing."

[Wanderlust]

Hello all, as a current owner of the VW ID.4 and a Luxury Motorcoach the idea of towing any EV is currently limited to trailering with the exception of one EV manufacturer, Rivian. Purchasing my first EV came with many questions and reservations, that was 11mo ago, today I am extremely pleased with my 60,000 mile VW ID.4. I drive my EV a lot and I drive with regenerative braking 100% of the time, the Coach utilizes engine braking to save the brake pads, the EV utilizes regenerative braking to recharge the battery and save the brake pads. I can see the day where one would be able to flat tow a EV input the distance of your total trip and as you brake the tow vehicle the EV activates regenerative braking slowing down the tow vehicle and the EV much like the engine brake of today but with one big difference no “waste of moving energy“ you harness the energy as you do with regenerative braking so on short trips the on board systems use more regenerative braking and long-distance trips use less regenerative braking but always giving your EV a full charge at the completion of any trip regardless of the total miles of the destination. All the current talk of using a EV to power a home during a power outage this would be the next logical step. All the needed components are already in place on every current EV the only thing missing is the software to optimize the components merging the EV with the tow vehicle. If the new Scout had this flat-tow recharge capability it would start a cult-like movement much like the loved VW Van. All “Van life“ enthusiast and Motorcoach owners alike that are currently limited to some not all four-wheel-drive vehicles for flat towing capability would love to have a fully charged EV vehicle ready to go when they reach their destination.
Now that would be a clever way to use EV technology !

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I'll pass that along. Tiffin?

 

[PapaTire]

Hello all, as a current owner of the VW ID.4 and a Luxury Motorcoach the idea of towing any EV is currently limited to trailering with the exception of one EV manufacturer, Rivian. Purchasing my first EV came with many questions and reservations, that was 11mo ago, today I am extremely pleased with my 60,000 mile VW ID.4. I drive my EV a lot and I drive with regenerative braking 100% of the time, the Coach utilizes engine braking to save the brake pads, the EV utilizes regenerative braking to recharge the battery and save the brake pads. I can see the day where one would be able to flat tow a EV input the distance of your total trip and as you brake the tow vehicle the EV activates regenerative braking slowing down the tow vehicle and the EV much like the engine brake of today but with one big difference no “waste of moving energy“ you harness the energy as you do with regenerative braking so on short trips the on board systems use more regenerative braking and long-distance trips use less regenerative braking but always giving your EV a full charge at the completion of any trip regardless of the total miles of the destination. All the current talk of using a EV to power a home during a power outage this would be the next logical step. All the needed components are already in place on every current EV the only thing missing is the software to optimize the components merging the EV with the tow vehicle. If the new Scout had this flat-tow recharge capability it would start a cult-like movement much like the loved VW Van. All “Van life“ enthusiast and Motorcoach owners alike that are currently limited to some not all four-wheel-drive vehicles for flat towing capability would love to have a fully charged EV vehicle ready to go when they reach their destination.
Now that would be a clever way to use EV technology !

What a fantastic idea to use regenerative braking in flat towing behind a motorcoach. Better apply for the patent now if there is not already one! While likely a bit complicated, this is a win, win, win item.

 

[difficulTT]

You can tow-charge a multitude of EVs, according to Motortrend:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-to-flat-tow-recharge-electric-vehicles/

 

[PapaTire]

You can tow-charge a multitude of EVs, according to Motortrend:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-to-flat-tow-recharge-electric-vehicles/

I think the question might be more along the line of are they designed / approved to be towed long term behind a motorcoach. The article referenced is more of a could you recharge by temporary towing.

From the MotorTrend article

"When discussing flat-tow charging with Darren Palmer, Ford's general manager of battery-electric vehicles, he expressed grave reservations about potential hazards related to tow-strap breakage, tow-vehicle/towed-vehicle collision, and whether the electric vehicle's system would report a fault under towing conditions. He recommended using a tow bar, but nobody recommends flat towing an EV behind an RV (even when shifted to neutral, any permanent-magnet electric motor generates back current that could damage the system), so nobody's going to attach one of those for an emergency flat-tow charge."

 

[absentEE]

I think the question might be more along the line of are they designed / approved to be towed long term behind a motorcoach. The article referenced is more of a could you recharge by temporary towing.

From the MotorTrend article

"When discussing flat-tow charging with Darren Palmer, Ford's general manager of battery-electric vehicles, he expressed grave reservations about potential hazards related to tow-strap breakage, tow-vehicle/towed-vehicle collision, and whether the electric vehicle's system would report a fault under towing conditions. He recommended using a tow bar, but nobody recommends flat towing an EV behind an RV (even when shifted to neutral, any permanent-magnet electric motor generates back current that could damage the system), so nobody's going to attach one of those for an emergency flat-tow charge."

This is because permanent magnet motors’ magnetic fields can not be turned off which is another reason switched reluctance motors (SRMs) make a lot of sense for this kind of application as they have no permanent magnets. 3-phase induction motors can work too in regards to flat towing but have many drawbacks as shown below. Permanent magnet motors would need a mechanical solution to disconnect them from the wheels, like the R1T's rear motors.

PM=permanent magnet motor SR=switched reluctance motor

PREMIUM EFFICIENCY MOTOR SELECTION AND APPLICATION GUIDE A HANDBOOK FOR INDUSTRY
page 96

 

[FLRubi58]

As an active RVer who currently utilizes a Jeep Rubicon Diesel as a towed vehicle, I would welcome the idea of being able to flat tow an EV (Scout) behind my RV with the ability to arrive at a destination and have a fully charged vehicle to explore in, all the better that the vehicle had off road capabilities. An additional benefit could be realized if I were able to power the RV while boondocking from the towed vehicle. This could dramatically affect the possibilities for RVer's choices in flat towed vehicles, at least I would buy one!

 

[JohnBills]

Yes, to this! I've thought the same thing. If flat-tow charging is made possible then someone towing with an RV could recharge their Scout on the way to the next destination! It's brilliant. It would also be great for recovery purposes. If someone could flat-tow you for a few miles that might give you enough charge to make it to a station. They do this in Long Way Up with the prototype R1T trucks. Granted, I understand there are also safety concerns with tow straps breaking and the like.