The videos are just arriving now. "98% the size of a Grand Cherokee".
Loaded launch edition about $72,000 including destination.
Loaded launch edition about $72,000 including destination.
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Direct competitor: 2025 Jeep Wagoneer S
- Thread starter Albal
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Not horrible but it could’ve been better with a more classic Wagoneer design instead of the space-age spoiler and overall design/shape that looks like every other car on the road. The wheels on that green one in the video look like they copied Rivian. Jeep should be better than that. And I hope this isn’t a direct competitor because that thing is a behemoth.
With the statements elsewhere that the launch Scout will be the size of an F150 which equates to Expedition in suv even which would exceed the dimensions of a Grand Wagoneer
I am hoping not
I don't think anyone said that the SUV would have the exact same footprint of the truck, or that it would be "expedition-sized". I would wait for the reveal and see what the spec sheet says. At least I will reserve any judgements until I see what Scout puts out there. Personally, I'm in this for the truck (not the SUV), and my only complaint with my R1T is that the bed is a little short. I would love a configuration with similar specs to the R1T and a full-sized bed, while trying to keep it as compact for a full-size as possible. None of that is easy to do, but let's see what Scout has up its sleeve.
Jamie just noted the other day that the SUV would be comparable to others in the off-road segment which I interpret as Bronco or Cherokee or 4-Runner size which is considerably smaller than an Expedition.
Here is a thought to explain some things.
Companies at least US cpanies introduce their first EVs on full size truck platfos because it is thd only way without new from ground up architecture or battery tech that they can come close to providing a 300 mile range. They need the extra wheelbase and width for battery space which is also a catch22 since the bigger and heavier the beehive the greater mass and power needed from on board batteries.
Which begs another question, why do hybrids have such small batteries that only a mere 30iles on electric is all they can do
Companies at least US cpanies introduce their first EVs on full size truck platfos because it is thd only way without new from ground up architecture or battery tech that they can come close to providing a 300 mile range. They need the extra wheelbase and width for battery space which is also a catch22 since the bigger and heavier the beehive the greater mass and power needed from on board batteries.
Which begs another question, why do hybrids have such small batteries that only a mere 30iles on electric is all they can do
Or, you could say that capturing marketshare is an important factor in achieving success for what will be an essentially new SUV and Truck company, and that if you look at the 3 best selling vehicles in the US, Full-Sized makes good business sense at launch. Also, Scout will be new ground up architecture, at least as far as I understand this.
I noticed the “off road version” of the Wagoneer S does not have a locking front diff. I rarely use the front diff because it can break steering components if you’re not careful, but man is a locking front diff a game changer when you need it.
From Jamie's recent post, I'm expecting the Scout SUV to be 190" - 200" long, which is about as long as I could use. Any longer and maneuvering it gets to be a hassle, especially with the long wheelbase that EVs have.
As for the Wagoneer S, the size seems ok, but the high belt line and short windows makes it look like every other SUV and makes it less functional and friendly. Plus the size of those wheels just looks painful.
Nowadays, I judge an EV by the size of their wheels. If they're willing to give up 10-15% range and have a worse ride just to have "cool" oversized wheels, then I expect the the rest of their implementation decisions to be equally poor.
As for the Wagoneer S, the size seems ok, but the high belt line and short windows makes it look like every other SUV and makes it less functional and friendly. Plus the size of those wheels just looks painful.
Nowadays, I judge an EV by the size of their wheels. If they're willing to give up 10-15% range and have a worse ride just to have "cool" oversized wheels, then I expect the the rest of their implementation decisions to be equally poor.
I agree with the Jeep comments. Terrible design, more of the same, sort of surprising! This is why Scout will be SO MUCH BETTER... They are building a modern version of the Box on wheels. Boxy is the best for these types of vehicles!
On the tires, I would think that the Jeep w/ 18's (with proper tires) would ride just fine. My R1T has the smallest wheel available (20's) and it rides great on both AT and Snows. Really a function of wheel + tire + suspension settings and air pressure... The R1T on 21's or 22's is def more of a look thing, although there are also range considerations, and the 21' in the R1T gets the best mileage. Lots of variable there. Of course for pure off-road, smaller being better with more rubber wrapped around it.
On the tires, I would think that the Jeep w/ 18's (with proper tires) would ride just fine. My R1T has the smallest wheel available (20's) and it rides great on both AT and Snows. Really a function of wheel + tire + suspension settings and air pressure... The R1T on 21's or 22's is def more of a look thing, although there are also range considerations, and the 21' in the R1T gets the best mileage. Lots of variable there. Of course for pure off-road, smaller being better with more rubber wrapped around it.
Funny you mention boxy design. My daughter got home from college with her Bronco and told us she doesn’t want it because gas mileage sucks (that’s fair). So my wife decides to trade her Acura MDX for a car for my daughter and she was going to drive Bronco. 9 days later she flips out and tells me she hates the Bronco. (My wife is in banking so getting her to spend money is like taking raw meat from a tiger’s mouth). So being a car guy I say go get whatever you want you deserve it but you need to test at least 5-6 vehicles otherwise she would buy another Acura. I had her onboard for a Toyota sequoia but she hated the feel. Too truck like. Ultimately she started looking at Lexus, Toyota and Honda and I said screw it. Told her she could have my accord hybrid (which I’ve grown to love and get tons of complements on) and I’ll drive the Bronco. I realized I HATE nearly every SUV on the market because they lack character. I now look at a range of 20.1mpg rather than 49.4-50.6 which sucks but I LOVE the Bronco because it’s different. It’s got flaws, it has 3-4 repairs that need to happen next week and I’d really like vinyl or leather seats instead of cloth-(working on Katzkin covers by end of summer) but it just reminds me of my first vehicle-my 10 year old rusted out Scout with dual glass pack mufflers and butter yellow paint.
I’ve realized with the new Scout-really don’t care about range, will be what it is. What I care about is the emotion of driving a box on wheels. Something with character. I’m different (weird, obnoxious, etc.. and I believe I’m memorable). I want my car to be as well. Doesn’t have to be expensive or custom but it needs to be unique so I’ll keep posting and being active and cross my fingers that SM’s doesn’t **** it up.
And hope to God the roof comes off or becomes VERY OPEN because that’s one of the best parts about the old Scout and the current Bronco. I think many others here feel the same way so let’s keep hoping SM nails the new vehicles and makes this journey one to celebrate at the end. Can’t wait for the launch!
I should add that Boxy isn't always that much less efficient when it comes to coefficient of drag. Of course if you have handles, winches, racks, lightbars, RTT's, or other accesories sticking out, it isn't going to help any vehicle - EV or ICE...
I would consider my Rivian to be boxy - one reason I like it, but it has a LOW drag coefficient of .30!
www.topspeed.com
I would consider my Rivian to be boxy - one reason I like it, but it has a LOW drag coefficient of .30!
Five Most Aerodynamic Electric Trucks Currently On Sale
From the uber-cool Cybertruck to the underrated Rivian R1T, these electric trucks carve through the air like a hot knife through butter.
www.topspeed.com
I should add that Boxy isn't always that much less efficient when it comes to coefficient of drag. Of course if you have handles, winches, racks, lightbars, RTT's, or other accesories sticking out, it isn't going to help any vehicle - EV or ICE...
I would consider my Rivian to be boxy - one reason I like it, but it has a LOW drag coefficient of .30!
Five Most Aerodynamic Electric Trucks Currently On Sale
From the uber-cool Cybertruck to the underrated Rivian R1T, these electric trucks carve through the air like a hot knife through butter.
.30 is real good for a boxy truck. Another benefit of clean smooth design vs having a bunch of extra creases and styling junk slapped on.
I was curious to see how much better a blended design could get over boxy, so I looked up the EQE SUV. That has a .25 Cd. So assuming a similar frontal area, the boxy design would use an additional 20% power driving down the highway. Not a bad trade-off, especially if it'll charge fast.
I hope this is not the competition. I fear that this is the competition. I think the Scout needs to be a lifestyle vehicle - not just another crossover. Crossover market seems saturated. The idea of a compromise vehicle eventually makes none of them actually stand out against each other. Sure some have badges that imply a heritage, and perhaps there is quite a lot of difference from the drivers seat - but from the outside, they are as boring as milk toast. Lot easier to sell exterior style than hide it from people so only an extended test drive will unveil it's inner beauty. Might as well make another Aztec
I hope that's true. I'm really looking for a Bronco/Wrangler-type vehicle more than a three-row SUV. I want four doors but I don't want the thing to be a land-yacht.
That's not exactly true. Maybe US companies do that, but even then I don't think that's accurate. GM's first real EV was the Chevy Bolt which has a 300 or so mile range and is a tiny little hatchback. Tesla's first EV was the Roadster which was also a 300 mile range small car. Even Ford has the Mach E which you can't call a full sized truck and gets well over 300 miles.
Car companies know how to package batteries into the size they need to get the range they need regardless of how big the platform is. Scout's parent company VW certainly knows how to do that. Their first cleansheet EV was the ID3 which has more than 300 miles of range and is roughly the size of a VW Golf. Most of Hyundai and Kia's EVs are smaller cars all with long ranges like the Kona, Soul, and Niro. You don't need a full size truck to get enough batteries to get enough range. Some companies are better at it than others and it's true the US companies generally lag their European, Chinese and Korean counterparts when it comes to efficiency.
There's no technical reason why Scout couldn't design and build a 300+mile EV comparable in size to a Bronco. VW Group already has the technology and know-how. Vehicles exactly like a 300 mile electric Bronco already exist in other markets. 300 miles doesn't require new battery technology or super-big platforms. My current Hyundai electric car gets better than 300 miles and is very much smaller than an F150.
As for hybrids, it's a bit more complicated. Many (mostly Toyotas) use older, non-lithium battery technologies so they aren't as energy dense and have pitifully small capacities. My parents' Rav4 hybrid for example has something like a 1 kWh battery that gives them about 800 yards of electric range. Pathetic.
Most of the reason for the small batteries and 30 mile ranges for plug-in hybrids though is for cost reasons. Small batteries are cheaper, especially if you have to put a fossil engine in the vehicle too. Also, most Americans commute 30 miles or less in a typical day anyway so that's why they all tend to aim for about that much range - it's just enough to be useful but not too expensive.
The Scout won't be competing with the Wagoneer S, it's direct competition will be the Jeep Recon but it will also cross-shop with the Wrangle, Bronco and 4Runner all of which have hybrids or plug-in hybrids on offer.
At least that's how I see it. Those are the ones I will be comparing the Scout to.
At least that's how I see it. Those are the ones I will be comparing the Scout to.
Hybrids are not competition in my mind. But understood that they could be for others, and that the Scout will be cross-shopped with hybrids. Just such a different vehicle when using up all that valuable space for 2 systems in one vehicle.
Knowing my growth here the cross shopping will be ICE drivers WANTING to be greener but uncomfortable going full EV. That worries me because if the Scout SUV isn’t a show stopper in looks/function and features I suspect it will lose buyers who go hybrid. I’ve learned a ton this far on this forum but my comfort level is still hybrid because getting 44-52 mpg on hybrid accord is still a huge improvement from my 35 years of driving experience and “conditioning”. Still hoping the Scout WOWs me because I want to take the leap.
