Too much AI

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GeorgiaScout

New member
Dec 14, 2024
3
4
Georgia
Can we please get a vehicle for the people? One with no “self driving” and no AI that no one can repair and only adds cost without actual value? There’s no need for OTA repairs and updates that just never go smoothly. Let’s drive our own scouts. And if we can’t, we don’t deserve one.
 
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Can we please get a vehicle for the people? One with no “self driving” and no AI that no one can repair and only adds cost without actual value? There’s no need for OTA repairs and updates that just never go smoothly. Let’s drive our own scouts. And if we can’t, we don’t deserve one.
No OTAs is simply not possible in an EV, they are too software driven. As for the self driving, hopefully they make it a package you can opt out of to keep cost down for those that want bare bones. I've already said I'll cancel my reservation if I can't get hands-free interstate driving. Part of the challenge is making something for everyone.
 
I think you are in the minority on this thinking. One of the big appeals to EV is putting in a home charger and hoping I NEVER have to go back to a dealer again!!!! That said if you are dying to deal with dealerships get the harvester version-at least then there’s a reason for service.
Saying this in a polite manner:
If you love Scouts and you want simple and a fuel based SUV take your $60-70K and do a mid level restoration on an original Scout. This vehicle just isn’t for everyone. As mentioned time and time again over the past 2 years that I was truly bummed it was announced as an EV-swore I’d never buy one. Two years later I’m championing the Scout EV and still haven’t owned one yet. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum that has educated and eased my mind. Take time to read through all the threads and you may also change your opinion.
As for OTA and tech-it’s what buyers want. Scout enthusiasts will be the smaller buying demographic on this vehicle-everyone else wants modern safety and EV accoutrements and for Scout to be successful they have to appeal to the masses.
 
No OTAs is simply not possible in an EV, they are too software driven. As for the self driving, hopefully they make it a package you can opt out of to keep cost down for those that want bare bones. I've already said I'll cancel my reservation if I can't get hands-free interstate driving. Part of the challenge is making something for everyone.
I’ve never experienced the whole hands free driving thing. That said, I won’t buy another vehicle that doesn’t have adaptive cruise. We do a lot of two lane highways with limited passing zones, and setting the adaptive cruise so it sets pace with the rest of traffic takes a lot of stress out of life!
 
I’ve never experienced the whole hands free driving thing. That said, I won’t buy another vehicle that doesn’t have adaptive cruise. We do a lot of two lane highways with limited passing zones, and setting the adaptive cruise so it sets pace with the rest of traffic takes a lot of stress out of life!
I go back and forth on this but my driving environment is considerably different. On long trips it’s great but I find I get lazy at staying focused. Sometimes I turn it off just because I stay more alert and feel more engaged with my driving but it’s definitely a nice feature to have so long as it can be turned on and off. 80% of the time I do not use it but I recognize the value for many other drivers
 
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I’ve never experienced the whole hands free driving thing. That said, I won’t buy another vehicle that doesn’t have adaptive cruise. We do a lot of two lane highways with limited passing zones, and setting the adaptive cruise so it sets pace with the rest of traffic takes a lot of stress out of life!
I’ve said the same thing. I won’t buy another vehicle without adaptive cruise. It makes long trips that much better for me. I don’t care so much about hands free or self driving or lane keeping or whatever, but definitely give me a well-programmed adaptive cruise option.
 
Can we please get a vehicle for the people? One with no “self driving” and no AI that no one can repair and only adds cost without actual value? There’s no need for OTA repairs and updates that just never go smoothly. Let’s drive our own scouts. And if we can’t, we don’t deserve one.

Self Driving and Driver aid features are switchable, so you can shut most of them off. Some driver aids are essentially table stakes at this point, some are required by regulation. ABS is a driver aid, ESC (Electronic Stability Control) is a driver aid. Both a legally required. So they won't be skipping these.

Car have been computers on wheels for decades now. It doesn't matter if they are ICE or BEV, and chances are they are going to need a software update at some point. So much the better if that update can be applied OTA in your driveway rather than take it to the dealer. Those updates are going to be required either way, OTA is just more convenient.

The only way to avoid the above, is to by OLD used cars.
 
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Agree with the idea of a simple vehicle. Although all vehicles these days are very computerized, there are EV’s like Tesla that fell that way and there are EV’s like the Lightning that seem like trucks that could be ICE. I prefer the latter.
 
With the amount of driving I do, the kind of "hands-free" cruise control that's offered by Ford is nearly ideal (the implementation is not perfect). I keep my hands on the wheel, but because the vehicle is maintaining the basics of lane keeping and etc., I find I experience a lot less stress and am far more alert and rested at the end of a driving day. I will sometimes take my hands off the wheel to stretch my hands/arms, to open a bottle of water, etc., but I don't reduce my attention to the road.

I don't trust software developers enough to let the vehicle be in control. I let it assist.

Note that the entire thing can be turned off. Or simple cruise control can be activated. It's not a requirement that the driver let the car do the driving. It's funny to me how many people misunderstand those kinds of options.
 
Can we please get a vehicle for the people? One with no “self driving” and no AI that no one can repair and only adds cost without actual value? There’s no need for OTA repairs and updates that just never go smoothly. Let’s drive our own scouts. And if we can’t, we don’t deserve one.
Did you have a really bad experience? I’m curious to hear what happened. I’ve read more than a few stories about imperfect driver assist, but I’m wondering what your story is. I have the radar-assisted cruise control thing on my car, but it’s too old (10) for any other fancy tech. I don’t really love the idea of AI, but there are times where it’s helpful and times where it isn’t helpful at all.

I’ve wanted a self-driving car since I was little, but we’re not there yet. There’s stuff about Teslas that are cool, but I’m firmly dedicated to giving them zero of my dollars, and there’s much to be said in favor of having a goddamn button or a switch. Please show me a button. I’d like to see certain things reliably in the event of some kind of screen failure, like the time of day. I don’t need it to be PS6 ready (or do I? Maybe I want to play through Metal Gear Solid 3 while I’m charging? Oh shit, this might actually be something I really do want now).
 
I have a car that changed its collision detection behavior after an update and scared the hell out of us when the car suddenly braked hard with nothing in sight. Sometimes software updates go wrong.

I would like updates to be available on the website so I can apply them manually if desired. OTA is fine for the first few months or so, but it’s a freaking car. If it works well already I don’t need new updates.

Self-driving and adaptive cruise shouldn’t require OTA. It either works or it doesn’t. I often drive outside of cell range - would the self-driving car stop and wait to require a cell connection? — of course not.

OTA is a convenience for software updates, but if you need it, it means you shipped a broken car… or you want to monetize a subscription plan to activate the seat warmers.

My dystopian vision is an OTA update to advertise Pepsi Cola on my speedometer until I buy an extended warrantee.
 
Did you have a really bad experience? I’m curious to hear what happened. I’ve read more than a few stories about imperfect driver assist, but I’m wondering what your story is. I have the radar-assisted cruise control thing on my car, but it’s too old (10) for any other fancy tech. I don’t really love the idea of AI, but there are times where it’s helpful and times where it isn’t helpful at all.

I’ve wanted a self-driving car since I was little, but we’re not there yet. There’s stuff about Teslas that are cool, but I’m firmly dedicated to giving them zero of my dollars, and there’s much to be said in favor of having a goddamn button or a switch. Please show me a button. I’d like to see certain things reliably in the event of some kind of screen failure, like the time of day. I don’t need it to be PS6 ready (or do I? Maybe I want to play through Metal Gear Solid 3 while I’m charging? Oh shit, this might actually be something I really do want now).
My thinking is it’s not real self-driving until the manufacturer is ready to accept full legal liability for anything that goes wrong. I love the idea of having my car drop me off then go park itself, or of napping during the boring parts of a long drive, but til that happens I’m happy with adaptive cruise and some safety features (auto emergency braking, rear cross traffic warning, &c). The fancier features seem like minimal benefit. As long as I have to stay alert with eyes on the road, I might as well drive.
 
My thinking is it’s not real self-driving until the manufacturer is ready to accept full legal liability for anything that goes wrong. I love the idea of having my car drop me off then go park itself, or of napping during the boring parts of a long drive, but til that happens I’m happy with adaptive cruise and some safety features (auto emergency braking, rear cross traffic warning, &c). The fancier features seem like minimal benefit. As long as I have to stay alert with eyes on the road, I might as well drive.
Have you experienced a good hands free system yet? It will blow you away how much more rested and alert you are. I actually feel safer in hands-free mode because of how it allows me to take in a broader amount of information around me since the car handles staying in the lane and keeping distance with the lead car.
 
Have you experienced a good hands free system yet? It will blow you away how much more rested and alert you are. I actually feel safer in hands-free mode because of how it allows me to take in a broader amount of information around me since the car handles staying in the lane and keeping distance with the lead car.
What is a good hands-free system?
 
Have you experienced a good hands free system yet? It will blow you away how much more rested and alert you are. I actually feel safer in hands-free mode because of how it allows me to take in a broader amount of information around me since the car handles staying in the lane and keeping distance with the lead car.
I have not, so experience might change my mind a bit. I’ve heard good things about ford and GM hands free, though they’re not cheap. It would have to be pretty helpful for me to pay a significant amount of money for it.
 
I have not, so experience might change my mind a bit. I’ve heard good things about ford and GM hands free, though they’re not cheap. It would have to be pretty helpful for me to pay a significant amount of money for it.
After using a Comna3X for a year, going without it would be like having to walk out in the snow to use an outhouse instead of indoor plumbing.
 
Obviously Tesla is very good. I use a Comma3x daily. I also have Ford BlueCruise which could be good, but needs a little more polish before I can trust it.

My experience with the Tesla autonomous driving system is limited to being a passenger in my friends’ car this past summer. They showed me the autonomous driving thing, and while it was pretty 🤯 crazy from the future, it also had its limits with things like “the paint is no good” and “stop sign? What stop sign? I also don’t acknowledge that there is an intersection here.” This was in a small business district in suburban Pennsylvania that wasn’t totally decrepit, but there was a little bit of faded paint on the roads. It both was and wasn’t awe-inspiring that it could steer itself, but still needed constant vigilance such that you might as well disable the feature if you need to babysit it. It seems that way to me, at least. Maybe that’s not the case when in use?
 
Used FSD a couple of times in our Model 3 earlier this year when it was free preview. I found it disconcerting, but very conservative on the interstate. I disengaged it on surface streets, but it did route me on and off the freeways. Liked it, but would not opt into it for an additional premium as I like to stay in control. I do very much enjoy driving with adaptive / lane departure functions, which have gotten pretty good on most platforms I've used these on.
 
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My experience with the Tesla autonomous driving system is limited to being a passenger in my friends’ car this past summer. They showed me the autonomous driving thing, and while it was pretty 🤯 crazy from the future, it also had its limits with things like “the paint is no good” and “stop sign? What stop sign? I also don’t acknowledge that there is an intersection here.” This was in a small business district in suburban Pennsylvania that wasn’t totally decrepit, but there was a little bit of faded paint on the roads. It both was and wasn’t awe-inspiring that it could steer itself, but still needed constant vigilance such that you might as well disable the feature if you need to babysit it. It seems that way to me, at least. Maybe that’s not the case when in use?
This is the thing with "autonomous" driving. It's unpredictable. And unpredictable is already available to us through other drivers (and ourselves), the road conditions, animals, etc. Why pay extra for additional unpredictability?

I use Ford's Blue Cruise Hands Free on long trips to ease the iron grip I have on the wheel. It reduces stress on long, straight highways, but has its poor programming problems in other situations. I still maintain control over the vehicle, but the simplification lane keeping and adaptive cruise control is just about right for most of my road trips.

I won't trust anything autonomous in traffic. I am a remote sensing scientist, so I know the limitations of vehicle sensors, and I know too many ai researchers and developers to trust these systems not to kill a kid or dog who runs out into the street.