Speculation Alert - possible Harvester Engine Choices

[ID_ENG]

The way modern Lithium batteries work is that you basically have full power/performance until empty. Eg, doesn't slowly dull out like an old C battery flashlight.

That and no direct connection between Harvester and drivetrain. So should be no issue with under performant engine there in that regard.

What I want to know is, is the Harvester going to be powerful enough to kick on after a certain percentage of battery left and top it off. Or is it going to have to be running the whole time and just slow down the depletion rate.

If the latter is the case I may have to rethink it.

Oh and put me down for Boxter engine. No technical reason, just so I could say I have a Porsche's heart under the body.

 

[Lowengaard]

So you want an ICE

Yeah I want an internal combustion engine, the harvester would be that either way?

 

[J Alynn]

Yeah I want an internal combustion engine, the harvester would be that either way?

I guess. Bit of a stretch but whatever makes you happy

 

[dearbulls]

The generator won’t do anything to add performance. That’s all the electric motors. The generator just adds charge to the battery and it doesn’t matter if the battery is at 100% charge or 10% the electric motors will perform the same.

The generator is just going to slow down the rate the battery loses charge to extend the range. It’s not turning a drivetrain so it only needs the torque needed to turn an alternator.

VW have 1.0 liter 3 cylinder engines, but the Harvester might be even smaller, maybe even something from Ducati. It needs to sit below the rear cargo area without taking too much cargo space away, as shown in the reveal video.

Of course it will.

All the replies to me thinking I'm stupid and do not know what REEV is. But go check out i3 yourselves. If you have an underpowered engine that cannot even recharge your battery enough as you needed, the max power the battery out out would be equal (ideally) or less than what gas generator can put out. There's a reason RAM gives ramcharger the Penta v6. And it's why it's full battery performance is way higher, but when running on extender it's only the max power of the gas engine.

 

[dearbulls]

I don’t believe the engine will provide any power to the drivetrain. It is a generator, running on gas, that outputs electricity to charge the battery pack.

Read above

 

[dearbulls]

The views I’ve seen on the website and the reveal look like a transverse I-4 (could be I-3) mostly upright between the rear axle and bumper. The engine doesn’t need to be powerful enough for full performance, just some margin above full speed on level ground pulling a trailer. The battery acts like a buffer providing extra power when needed and taking extra when it’s not. Something around 2.0L is probably sufficient.

Yes! It needs to at least be able to safely accelerate you to merge into a highway. I'm not talking about full battery performance, but it needs to be more than 130kw for this potentially 8k+ lbs vehicle on 35s

 

[Lupercal! Lupercal!]

1.4l Turbo 4 cylinder could work, to me its the affordable and available option, the Porsche flat 4 cylinder might be to expensive even if size and packaging are perfect for it

 

[dearbulls]

That’s not the way a range extender works. It generates electricity to charge the battery. It’s not a hybrid drive system like you see in a performance car where the battery adds torque to the gas engine when accelerating and charges when decelerating.

A range extender in an electric vehicle (EV) is a supplementary power source designed to increase the vehicle's driving range. It's typically a small internal combustion engine (ICE) or a generator that provides additional power to the battery, allowing the EV to travel farther without needing to recharge immediately. This setup helps alleviate "range anxiety," which is the worry about running out of battery power before reaching a charging station.

Stop sitting in your basement and imagining. Go out and drive one

As an owner of HEV and BEV, I can tell you when the battery charge level is low, the performance is definitely degrading. For most BEV, when battery SOC (state of charge) is low, it will go into turtle mode. TFL did test on i3, and it won't accelerate past 30mph with its gas generator at full power

 

[dearbulls]

Mazda is working on a rotary as the REX for there upcoming EV platform which is a great solution.

Rotary? Need to carry extra bottle of engine oil in your EV. Lol

 

[dearbulls]

I think the engine below the trunk is a good idea, but it would honestly be way cooler if they just put it in the frunk area and had a slightly bigger engine than just a three cylinder, and that way, the extra space below the trunk could be used for a bigger gas tank, which could extend the range even further.

That's where i3 put its gas motor, in the back

 

[ID_ENG]

Is there someone at SM @Jamie@ScoutMotors maybe. That could help clarify this. Not getting into specifics, but a very vague high level. Can the Harvester power output impact vehicle performance, or will it only impact how much and how fast it can charge the battery.
And what happens when you have a "completely" drained battery and then add gas, will you slowly move along because if some software decision to sip as little power as possible, be fast enough to charge while you go about your day with no noticeable difference, or have to wait while the Harvester generates enough energy for you to make it somewhere.

Understand if you can't answer even at a high level.....but worth a shot.

 

[dearbulls]

The way modern Lithium batteries work is that you basically have full power/performance until empty. Eg, doesn't slowly dull out like an old C battery flashlight.

That and no direct connection between Harvester and drivetrain. So should be no issue with under performant engine there in that regard.

What I want to know is, is the Harvester going to be powerful enough to kick on after a certain percentage of battery left and top it off. Or is it going to have to be running the whole time and just slow down the depletion rate.

If the latter is the case I may have to rethink it.

Oh and put me down for Boxter engine. No technical reason, just so I could say I have a Porsche's heart under the body.

Your name is ID EnG so I don't know if you own ID 4 or work on them. Ever seen one going in the turtle mode? And if you know ID, there's a power bar on display. It shortened as battery SOC drops. Your performance is definitely degrading, not as you said, "performance remains the same". And it's basically same for ALL BEV, including Tesla. You get full performance only when fully charged

 

[dearbulls]

That’s exactly what it is. It will be a range extending generator to recharge the batteries. No direct link from the generator to the wheels.

You think I'm stupid not knowing that? Read my replies above. I've been driving BEV for some years and I know exactly how EV performed

 

[ID_ENG]

Your name is ID EnG so I don't know if you own ID 4 or work on them. Ever seen one going in the turtle mode? And if you know ID, there's a power bar on display. It shortened as battery SOC drops. Your performance is definitely degrading, not as you said, "performance remains the same". And it's basically same for ALL BEV, including Tesla. You get full performance only when fully charged

No in this thread it would have come in handy though ha. Short for Idaho Engineer (software).
I don't discredit your experience, there are a lot of unknown factors at play too. Like software control and manipulation of power output, based on environment variables. Eg, running on range extender power output.
Which is why I put out a hail Mary question to see if we can get some clarity with the SM team engineering take on it.

 

[Chaparral]

Yes! It needs to at least be able to safely accelerate you to merge into a highway. I'm not talking about full battery performance, but it needs to be more than 130kw for this potentially 8k+ lbs vehicle on 35s

The Harvester won’t provide any acceleration. That’s provided by the electric motors, which provide all the acceleration you could possibly need and more.

The Harvester is a generator, it turns at a constant speed, so it does not need to keep changing acceleration like a gas engine driving a transmission does.

This is what allows the Harvester to be far smaller than a regular gas engine. A regular gas engine needs to accelerate a vehicle and is built for this high load. But when it gets to cruising speed the energy load is much lower. The average load on the engine is closer to the cruising load than to the accelerating load. The Harvester will provide charge that is probably much less than needed for this average load because it is only extending the life of the battery during normal driving. It probably won’t keep it going indefinitely. This means the Harvester can be a 1/4 the size of a regular gas engine or even smaller. As shown in Scout’s images, it is tiny, more like a motorbike engine than a car engine. If the battery is very low I expect it could be possible that the Harvester may enable the vehicle to operate at very slow speeds that draw little charge from the battery.

At the end of 500 miles the battery will need to be charged. Re-filling the gas tank and re-charging it with the Harvester (if possible) will probably be very, very slow. If you have a second 500 mile leg you’ll probably need to charge the battery at a DC fast charger and fill the gas tank at a gas station.

My guess is that the Harvester is not coming from the existing VW parts that we know about. I think it’s safe to assume that VW Group engineers must have been working on purpose built range extender generators for many years. They could very well have a new solution that’s ready to go but has never before been used in a shipping product.

 

[Chaparral]

He's hoping it can replenish the battery at the same rate driving down the highway depletes it so the battery level doesn't drop.

In the space available under the rear floor this is impossible. Scout showed us concept pictures of the harvester and it is very small. It’s just slowing down the rate at which the battery is depleted.

We’re not going to have unlimited range at highway speeds so long as we keep stopping for gas. After 500 miles we’ll be looking both for somewhere to charge and a gas station.

 

[mattbrew]

Speculation Alert!

As we eagerly await more details on the new Scout, there’s plenty of buzz around potential engine configurations. Kicking off this thread with two likely contenders for powering this rugged compact’s battery pack:

Three-Cylinder from the VW Parts Bin: With VW’s reputation for efficient, punchy engines, a three-cylinder variant could deliver solid torque and fuel economy as a compact generator, perfect for off-road adventures.

4-Cylinder Flat Engine, Possibly a Boxster Derivative: This compact, flat design would be ideal for a rear-engine setup, optimizing balance and efficiency. Known for its punchy performance in the Boxster, a naturally aspirated version could be a perfect engine generator for the battery pack – blending classic VW engineering with Scout heritage!

Imagine the Scout with the heart of a Boxster supporting the battery pack – a true mix of rugged utility and sporty dynamics! What’s your bet on the Scout’s engine for use in the Harvester optioned rigs?

More likely a 120cc ( think Honda suitcase generator) running the entire 500 mile trip.

 

[Bodie]

In the space available under the rear floor this is impossible. Scout showed us concept pictures of the harvester and it is very small. It’s just slowing down the rate at which the battery is depleted.

We’re not going to have unlimited range at highway speeds so long as we keep stopping for gas. After 500 miles we’ll be looking both for somewhere to charge and a gas station.

I hope you're wrong. If that's the case, I'll have to re-think what I'd rather live with.

 

[ID_ENG]

I hope you're wrong. If that's the case, I'll have to re-think what I'd rather live with.

Same, ideal situation is that you run on pure electric until say 40% battery left and then Harvester kicks in to top off battery or slow down depletion is fine. But as long as we have some decent mileage on battery only. So as long as you keep your battery charged may not even need the Harvester most of the time.

 

[dearbulls]

Same, ideal situation is that you run on pure electric until say 40% battery left and then Harvester kicks in to top off battery or slow down depletion is fine. But as long as we have some decent mileage on battery only. So as long as you keep your battery charged may not even need the Harvester most of the time.

No matter what they do, I think the key factor to consider is the user experience. It shouldn't force you to slow down from highway speed when needed due to the SOC of battery, while still having gas in tank.

From the launch event, I think scout has mentioned about user experience several times. And since I've pre-ordered several vehicles lately from various manufacturers, they are the first company that setup a forum years before the production date. So I'm optimistic that Scout will listen to what we say here