Can anyone explain to me what a “Gas Powered Range Extender” is mechanically?? So it’s not a hybrid system set up, so what is it? Thx!
Gas Powered Range Extender
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Consider it as an emergency power generator, it does not drive the wheels directly.
It must be a gas motor that is not connected to the drive train. It of course has a gas tank. It only generates electricity to charge the batteries, effectively increasing overall range and allowing quick refuling. The BMW i3 did this years ago, a new vehicle the ram charger ev truck is coming soon, it will be a full size pickup with a gen..
I’ve always thought an EV with a generator could be the sweet spot. Especially if it’s serviceable by the owner this could work really well. Too bad a diesel generator would probably add too much weight but that would be awesome.
I was a fan of the Ram Charger EV, minus, the full fledge engine it leverages as the generator. It just took up too much space and IMO, created those maintenance challenges from an ICE and EV wrapped up into one. Scout’s approach appears to be different, or at least without taking up all that Frunk space.
Still waiting on details on how their approach and what it means for maintenance, but does seem like an interesting twist that i hope to proves to be that sweet spot.
Still waiting on details on how their approach and what it means for maintenance, but does seem like an interesting twist that i hope to proves to be that sweet spot.
The battery will be a bit smaller in the Harvester - that’s a weight saving. The generator is probably small. I don’t expect the Harvester to be any heavier than the full size battery version.. Someone at the event said someone from Scout indicated the Harvester version will be cheaper to produce than the full size battery version.
Scout engineers should check out Liquid Piston’s ultra compact Wankel-like IC engine. It has an outstanding power to weight ratio and would seem like an ideal fit to power an onboard generator where weight and space are an issue. They are currently focusing on using it to power drones for the military.
Ooh yeah, Wankles make great power for their size. I used to have an RX-7 and that engine was TI-NY 1.3L. I remember it being like a little bigger than a basketball.
IMHO, this video is a pretty good guess on which engine and how it will be deployed.
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I keep reading that mazda is reworking them as hybrids but haven’t seen any full announcements
I think several of the assumptions made in that video may be wrong.
The Battery only version has 350 miles range.
The Harvester version has a total of 500+ miles but how much smaller is the battery?
The Scout website says you can “go a couple hundred more” using the extender than with just EV. This suggests the battery in the Havester version can provide about 300 miles by itself. If so, the battery is about 15% smaller. This fits with what Keogh said about it being “a little bit smaller”. Since it takes several hours to travel 500 miles, the Harvester generator has plenty of time to produce 200 miles worth of charge. However, those 500 miles might not be continuous, it might assume breaks in driving where the Harvester continues to run while the vehicle is parked.
Also, a regular gas engine is designed to work at different speeds and frequently changes the acceleration of mass. A generator operates at a constant speed. In theory this means a generator can be optimized for efficiency. So Scout might not use a regular gas engine designed for driving a powertrain and instead use something designed specifically to work at a constant speed.
The Battery only version has 350 miles range.
The Harvester version has a total of 500+ miles but how much smaller is the battery?
The Scout website says you can “go a couple hundred more” using the extender than with just EV. This suggests the battery in the Havester version can provide about 300 miles by itself. If so, the battery is about 15% smaller. This fits with what Keogh said about it being “a little bit smaller”. Since it takes several hours to travel 500 miles, the Harvester generator has plenty of time to produce 200 miles worth of charge. However, those 500 miles might not be continuous, it might assume breaks in driving where the Harvester continues to run while the vehicle is parked.
Also, a regular gas engine is designed to work at different speeds and frequently changes the acceleration of mass. A generator operates at a constant speed. In theory this means a generator can be optimized for efficiency. So Scout might not use a regular gas engine designed for driving a powertrain and instead use something designed specifically to work at a constant speed.
Wankels are very inefficient engines and suffer from a number of emissions problems, but they can be packed down into very small volumes. I suppose operating in a narrow torque and HP range would allow them to tune for more efficiency and handle emissions, but VW hasn't built Wankels in a very long time.
I'd love to see a small diesel, but diesel and VW in America are probably a no-go - they bought my Touareg TDI back in 2017 after Dieselgate and I made a killing.
Could probably cut one of these in half for a 6-stroke inline-3, and it's in the VW family already:
There's also this little beaut, which has some pretty eye-watering power density:
There's also this little beaut, which has some pretty eye-watering power density:
I kind of think he misses the point completely with his video. Dodge has the motor it has so it can tow. They did not want a truck that was useless for towing because of the EV range loss. If Scout does not focus entirely on the towing market (and why should they, 1/2 ton trucks are rarely used for serious towing), it simply does not need a motor capable of providing all the electricity needed to tow.
I think a better analysis would be to look at the miles/kw of a similar full sized EV. If we want to look at a depressing example - the Hummer EV gets 1.5 miles/kwh. Ok, that is too depressing, the Lightning gets 2.1. At that - a 35kwh generator could maintain highway speed. Ok, rule of thumb puts that at 70hp. That said, he still missed the fact that automobile engines are rated at peak HP, but they are not designed to put out peak hp constantly over a long period of time. A generator runs at constant speed (or, to have a lower output constant speed and a short peak surge output). I doubt that VW engine is designed to put out a constant 115 hp - it is there for acceleration, not for cruising at top speed for hours. It is being put in a vehicle that can probably maintain a constant cruising speed at 1/3 of that hp rating. Ok, close enough to 35hp, but the tune would be all wrong.
Not to joke too much, but they don't need to be putting an automobile engine in this. They really need something more of an agricultural engine - as those are designed to run at rated power for hours. They need a Harvester engine... That said, I would have to google to see if VW group has any agricultural equipment manufacturers in it. Not that I really want a Lamborghini engine in it - but at least they make tractors.
I think a better analysis would be to look at the miles/kw of a similar full sized EV. If we want to look at a depressing example - the Hummer EV gets 1.5 miles/kwh. Ok, that is too depressing, the Lightning gets 2.1. At that - a 35kwh generator could maintain highway speed. Ok, rule of thumb puts that at 70hp. That said, he still missed the fact that automobile engines are rated at peak HP, but they are not designed to put out peak hp constantly over a long period of time. A generator runs at constant speed (or, to have a lower output constant speed and a short peak surge output). I doubt that VW engine is designed to put out a constant 115 hp - it is there for acceleration, not for cruising at top speed for hours. It is being put in a vehicle that can probably maintain a constant cruising speed at 1/3 of that hp rating. Ok, close enough to 35hp, but the tune would be all wrong.
Not to joke too much, but they don't need to be putting an automobile engine in this. They really need something more of an agricultural engine - as those are designed to run at rated power for hours. They need a Harvester engine... That said, I would have to google to see if VW group has any agricultural equipment manufacturers in it. Not that I really want a Lamborghini engine in it - but at least they make tractors.
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I would jump at one in a heartbeat if it had enough kW to power my house. The reveal said it would include a 220v outlet and if it was rated for 50 amps it would power most necessary home appliances and lights.
Should be enough to power critical for a few days. Range extender will certainly go even longer
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