Extra, Extra....Read All About It!

[J Alynn]

During Apple’s recent developer conference they released two videos about what they have been calling “the new CarPlay”. When vehicle manufacturers support this new system, iPhone users will have three options: 1) not use their phone at all and use the manufacturers default systems, 2) use “classic Carplay” which is the typically single screen Carplay we have today or 3) use “the new Carplay” that extends aspects of Apple’s design language across all displays in the vehicle and allows certain information from the phone to be composited alongside the car’s system information.

One of the new videos (that can be viewed in Apple’s Developer app) explains the architecture of the new system. It is explained how the car’s computer system does most of the rendering and composition. This is very different to the classic Carplay that is rendered entirely by the phone. So the new Carplay doesn’t mean the phone is taking over as some have assumed. The car’s own built in computer is still completely in control, it’s just compositing layers, one of which may add something from an app on the phone.

Another video introduces the design tools that Apple provides for instrument cluster design. The videos stress that this is a “co-branding” approach. The design tools introduce some constraints that keep the designs consistent with Apple’s overall system design aesthetics but at the same time provide flexibility for the manufacturer to express their own brand identity. Of course, the only people that would ever use this are iPhone users that choose to use it over the built-in system. Those of us that think visual continuity is essential to good design very much like the idea of Carplay blending in with the rest of the in-car experience so that it feels fully integrated, like one system (even though under the hood it is two). Apple’s system also allows for user customizability within boundaries that the car manufacturer sets, such as choosing between color schemes or different styles for the instrument cluster.

The key question is: do Apple’s design tools provide vehicle manufacturers with enough flexibility to present their brand in their own way?

Now that Apple’s new design tools have been public for a few days, certain developers have been testing just how much flexibility these tools provide for vehicle manufacturers to express their own brand and style. A team of designers at BlackBoxInfinite set out to re-create classic instrument clusters from iconic vehicles using Apple’s design tools and published a video on Youtube showcasing their work.

What does everyone think? Are the instrument clusters designed by BlackBoxInfinite using Apple’s developer tools any good? Should Scout offer these user customizable displays as an option for their customers that use iPhone so that each driver of a vehicle can choose to have their own customized experience?

That is FREAKING cool. How cool to throw an option for a digital display that mimics original scout dash components. Super cool stuff.
I would love to see these have a user interface where as the driver I can tweak the colors-even if just a few. Like hey-I want needles and tick marks to be purple instead of white but lettering to be-yellow?
The other thing I’d like to see is with head up display being more prevalent could the whole driver screen get wallpaper photo images as an option. This would still allow speed and turns to show on head up but have a calming photo for commute home (reduce road rage). Maybe an audio alert could be set when fuel/charge gets to a certain level.
Anyway-cool video and nice work by Blackbox infinite

 

[ddg520]

During Apple’s recent developer conference they released two videos about what they have been calling “the new CarPlay”. When vehicle manufacturers support this new system, iPhone users will have three options: 1) not use their phone at all and use the manufacturers default systems, 2) use “classic Carplay” which is the typically single screen Carplay we have today or 3) use “the new Carplay” that extends aspects of Apple’s design language across all displays in the vehicle and allows certain information from the phone to be composited alongside the car’s system information.

One of the new videos (that can be viewed in Apple’s Developer app) explains the architecture of the new system. It is explained how the car’s computer system does most of the rendering and composition. This is very different to the classic Carplay that is rendered entirely by the phone. So the new Carplay doesn’t mean the phone is taking over as some have assumed. The car’s own built in computer is still completely in control, it’s just compositing layers, one of which may add something from an app on the phone.

Another video introduces the design tools that Apple provides for instrument cluster design. The videos stress that this is a “co-branding” approach. The design tools introduce some constraints that keep the designs consistent with Apple’s overall system design aesthetics but at the same time provide flexibility for the manufacturer to express their own brand identity. Of course, the only people that would ever use this are iPhone users that choose to use it over the built-in system. Those of us that think visual continuity is essential to good design very much like the idea of Carplay blending in with the rest of the in-car experience so that it feels fully integrated, like one system (even though under the hood it is two). Apple’s system also allows for user customizability within boundaries that the car manufacturer sets, such as choosing between color schemes or different styles for the instrument cluster.

The key question is: do Apple’s design tools provide vehicle manufacturers with enough flexibility to present their brand in their own way?

Now that Apple’s new design tools have been public for a few days, certain developers have been testing just how much flexibility these tools provide for vehicle manufacturers to express their own brand and style. A team of designers at BlackBoxInfinite set out to re-create classic instrument clusters from iconic vehicles using Apple’s design tools and published a video on Youtube showcasing their work.

What does everyone think? Are the instrument clusters designed by BlackBoxInfinite using Apple’s developer tools any good? Should Scout offer these user customizable displays as an option for their customers that use iPhone so that each driver of a vehicle can choose to have their own customized experience?

This is great. I really hope Scout takes a serious look at Apple.

 

[Albal]

This is great. I really hope Scout takes a serious look at Apple.

Me too.

 

[LastDayScout]

Volkswagen and Rivian Are Teaming Up. What Does This Mean for Scout? — The Drive

Volkswagen, one of the oldest and biggest corporations to ever churn out cars, and Rivian, which has had two versions of one model in public for all of six years, are forming a new joint venture.

apple.news

 

[J Alynn]

Volkswagen and Rivian Are Teaming Up. What Does This Mean for Scout? — The Drive

Volkswagen, one of the oldest and biggest corporations to ever churn out cars, and Rivian, which has had two versions of one model in public for all of six years, are forming a new joint venture.

apple.news

Thanks for sharing. I think this write off was very informative and helped me understand some things I was scratching my head about

 

[LastDayScout]

This one is fairly negative and raises concerns.

Volkswagen's $5 Billion Investment In Rivian Has Some Experts Concerned About Scout's Planned Revival — Jalopnik

Rivian builds some outstanding electric vehicles. It also recently announced several new models, including the incredibly desirable R3X. To make those vehicles happen, though, Rivian needed money, and this week it announced that Volkswagen would invest up to $5 billion in the startup. That’s...

apple.news

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I'm going to post this separately, but it is relevant here. Scott Keogh our CEO posted this today:

It’s been an exciting and productive week at Scout Motors! These three simple words from our Scout Way values perfectly sum up the past three days: Move with Intent.

At the start of the week, our Scout team welcomed members of the VW Group Board to our Scout Innovation Center in Novi, Michigan. In the very place we’re designing and engineering our new Scout vehicles, we confirmed our plans and celebrated our purpose.

Then, it was on to South Carolina where members of our Scout Motors Board had a chance to visit our new Connection Center in Columbia and tour our Production Center site in Blythewood. It’s hard to believe the construction team has already moved more than 7 million cubic yards of dirt to ensure a flat surface for our buildings, which are beginning to take shape one steel beam at a time.

At each location, with every update and every team member, one thing is clear: We’re making progress as we work to make history.

To my fellow Scouts, your energy, ingenuity and figure-it-out mentality continue to inspire me daily and drive our company and vehicles forward. Let’s keep the momentum going!

To the members of the VW Group Board and Scout Motors Board, we remain grateful for your commitment and support. You believe in our vision to revitalize an American icon and share our passion for creating connections and investing in communities and people.

We can’t wait to show the world what we’ve been up to and what our people and new Scout vehicles are capable of achieving!

 

[J Alynn]

I'm going to post this separately, but it is relevant here. Scott Keogh our CEO posted this today:

It’s been an exciting and productive week at Scout Motors! These three simple words from our Scout Way values perfectly sum up the past three days: Move with Intent.

At the start of the week, our Scout team welcomed members of the VW Group Board to our Scout Innovation Center in Novi, Michigan. In the very place we’re designing and engineering our new Scout vehicles, we confirmed our plans and celebrated our purpose.

Then, it was on to South Carolina where members of our Scout Motors Board had a chance to visit our new Connection Center in Columbia and tour our Production Center site in Blythewood. It’s hard to believe the construction team has already moved more than 7 million cubic yards of dirt to ensure a flat surface for our buildings, which are beginning to take shape one steel beam at a time.

At each location, with every update and every team member, one thing is clear: We’re making progress as we work to make history.

To my fellow Scouts, your energy, ingenuity and figure-it-out mentality continue to inspire me daily and drive our company and vehicles forward. Let’s keep the momentum going!

To the members of the VW Group Board and Scout Motors Board, we remain grateful for your commitment and support. You believe in our vision to revitalize an American icon and share our passion for creating connections and investing in communities and people.

We can’t wait to show the world what we’ve been up to and what our people and new Scout vehicles are capable of achieving!


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This is when a sneak peak photo should be posted

 

[GotScout]

"It is absolutely not going to be a Rivian"... lol

Volkswagen and Rivian Are Teaming Up. What Does This Mean for Scout?

Rivian needs money and VW needs EV tech, especially as it heads into market with an electric off-road SUV.

www.thedrive.com

 

[JohnnyScout]

While integration of any phone's features and capabilities into the vehicle are generally welcomed (except when the keypad pulled up on dash won't respond to "press 1 for..." the idea that only an iPhone user can change their dash display is to me overreacting. The ability to change what gauges appear and how they do needs to be all from the vehicle computer

 

[LastDayScout]

US: New portable solar charger enables EVs to recharge anywhere — Interesting Engineering

Despite declining interest in EVs, GoSun's innovation addresses market concerns with durable, portable charging solutions powered by the sun.

apple.news

 

[J Alynn]

US: New portable solar charger enables EVs to recharge anywhere — Interesting Engineering

Despite declining interest in EVs, GoSun's innovation addresses market concerns with durable, portable charging solutions powered by the sun.

apple.news

Thank God. Love it. @Jamie@ScoutMotors can you please post this on the main page so we can kill the constant generator/swappable battery discussions. This solves the problem and I’m guessing this is considerably more affordable and lighter in weight than an equivalent alternative.
GOLD STAR for @LastDayScout for posting this on a beautiful Stars and Stripes kind of day here in the U.S.
happy 4th/Independence Day

 

[RebelliousPeasant]

Thank God. Love it. @Jamie@ScoutMotors can you please post this on the main page so we can kill the constant generator/swappable battery discussions. This solves the problem and I’m guessing this is considerably more affordable and lighter in weight than an equivalent alternative.
GOLD STAR for @LastDayScout for posting this on a beautiful Stars and Stripes kind of day here in the U.S.
happy 4th/Independence Day

Nope. This is a silly snake-oil gadget. It only produces 1.2 kW in ideal conditions. That's less than a standard wall outlet (which gives 1.5 kW). If there's a cloud or the sun moves behind a branch on just one of those panels it'll produce much less than the paltry 1.2 kW. Even at full theoretical power it would take my EV more than 77 hours to charge at that speed. You'd literally be better off just carrying an extension cord and plugging into any wall outlet (which is what I already do and have never had to use, I keep it in the frunk).

This is basically equivalent to a jerry can for an EV, sure it might be useful in a pinch but it adds 70 lbs to your roof, you won't be able to have anything else up there, it'll be fragile because it's solar panels (which are made out of thin crystals), and it'll probably cost at least a couple grand. With the amount of power it will provide you you'd be much better off carrying a basic extension cord and charging off any wall outlet or even a buddy's EV, heck, you could even carry around an EcoFlow or something for about the same weight and really treat it like a jerry can!

Sorry but this is not a very practical idea in my experienced opinion. This is a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. The problem only exists in the minds of those who haven't actually lived with an EV and experienced how they work in the real world. Range anxiety goes away pretty quickly once you have an EV. This is not really different than those who propose lugging around a gas generator, it's an impractical solution to something that isn't actually a thing anyway.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

Nope. This is a silly snake-oil gadget. It only produces 1.2 kW in ideal conditions. That's less than a standard wall outlet (which gives 1.5 kW). If there's a cloud or the sun moves behind a branch on just one of those panels it'll produce much less than the paltry 1.2 kW. Even at full theoretical power it would take my EV more than 77 hours to charge at that speed. You'd literally be better off just carrying an extension cord and plugging into any wall outlet (which is what I already do and have never had to use, I keep it in the frunk).

This is basically equivalent to a jerry can for an EV, sure it might be useful in a pinch but it adds 70 lbs to your roof, you won't be able to have anything else up there, it'll be fragile because it's solar panels (which are made out of thin crystals), and it'll probably cost at least a couple grand. With the amount of power it will provide you you'd be much better off carrying a basic extension cord and charging off any wall outlet or even a buddy's EV, heck, you could even carry around an EcoFlow or something for about the same weight and really treat it like a jerry can!

Sorry but this is not a very practical idea in my experienced opinion. This is a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. The problem only exists in the minds of those who haven't actually lived with an EV and experienced how they work in the real world. Range anxiety goes away pretty quickly once you have an EV. This is not really different than those who propose lugging around a gas generator, it's an impractical solution to something that isn't actually a thing anyway.

As much as I love the idea of Aptera-like solar panels on a scout, realistically charging an ev that doesn’t look like a spaceship takes a lot more than what you can easily fit on a vehicle. I’ve seen a couple stories of folks who have traveled with portable panels cross country or cross continent, but it’s like carefully pack 40-60 portable panels in your car, then find a spot to set them up, camp for a day or two to charge enough to get to your next destination, rinse, wash repeat…

There are some reasonably sturdy/flexible panels, but you need a lot of them to charge a car. The only reason it might be reasonable on Aptera is because they’ve got a small, hyper-efficient vehicle covered with solar panels, and even then at best may get 40 miles per day, if all the stars are aligned.

 

[LastDayScout]

As much as I love the idea of Aptera-like solar panels on a scout, realistically charging an ev that doesn’t look like a spaceship takes a lot more than what you can easily fit on a vehicle. I’ve seen a couple stories of folks who have traveled with portable panels cross country or cross continent, but it’s like carefully pack 40-60 portable panels in your car, then find a spot to set them up, camp for a day or two to charge enough to get to your next destination, rinse, wash repeat…

There are some reasonably sturdy/flexible panels, but you need a lot of them to charge a car. The only reason it might be reasonable on Aptera is because they’ve got a small, hyper-efficient vehicle covered with solar panels, and even then at best may get 40 miles per day, if all the stars are aligned.

This is exactly what I was thinking as well. I wanted to float the article without making my own comments. But, @RebelliousPeasant and @oldgeeksguide have it right. This idea will hurt range with weight and drag more than it will be able to add in any sort of reasonable time. By the way, it’s also almost $3000.

 

[J Alynn]

This is exactly what I was thinking as well. I wanted to float the article without making my own comments. But, @RebelliousPeasant and @oldgeeksguide have it right. This idea will hurt range with weight and drag more than it will be able to add in any sort of reasonable time. By the way, it’s also almost $3000.

I have no concerns with the range I just want to quit seeing the constant ideas for small engines ($1,000’s), generators (less than $1,000’s and readily available from Honda and other companies) and range extenders ($,1000’s and excess weight). If it’s 300-350 mpg equivalent I’m fine. I’m more concerned about an open roof concept of some variation and a solid built vehicle

 

[Mousehunter]

If you want to be "green", then lighter and more aerodynamic is the best option. Aptera is attempting to go that route - will see if the market supports it. With the Aptera, perhaps it's solar makes some sense. IF you look at minimal daily driving, perhaps with it's impressive miles/kw the panels might maintain a charge over weeks. That said, other than hyper mileing - the most a reasonable solar system on a car can really hope for is to overcome parasitic battery drain - which has bricked more than a couple of Teslas.

It's not even reasonable to hope for solar panels to be able to maintain a mobile AC, not less a driving car. The most efficient tiny AC;s still need 1/2kw/h. You would probably need 3kw of panels to maintain that for 24hrs (given limited peak production hours). I have seen an RV try to do it - but it took the entire rooftop, plus 2 pull out awnings - and they were still running short daily.

 

[Chaparral]

The Rivian CEO just did an interview on the Decoder podcast.

Among other things he explained why Rivian does not support CarPlay; arguing that the user would need to jump out of CarPlay to open the frunk.

To me this highlights the problem of not having physical buttons for things like opening the frunk and instead having to navigate through touchscreens or away from a screen you are actively using (whether it’s a CarPlay app or something else).

Also as an excuse for not supporting CarPlay this is a very weak argument because even if buttons have to all be on touchscreens there is no reason why CarPlay can’t exist alongside other screens or UI. Or why certain controls couldn’t also be inside a CarPlay app.

The new CarPlay allows for more complex composited screens so Now Playing data and controls for a podcast could exist right alongside controls for the car. But really what’s needed most is more physical buttons.

Opening the frunk should not only be a physical button but there should probably also be a purely mechanical way to open it in case the electrical system is completely shut down.

Didn’t Rivian have an early software bug where users couldn’t open the center console until the software was updated?

Any system that can be paralyzed by a software flaw needs to be redesigned with redundancy and other safeguards. Physical buttons should be considered essential.

 

[J Alynn]

The Rivian CEO just did an interview on the Decoder podcast.

Among other things he explained why Rivian does not support CarPlay; arguing that the user would need to jump out of CarPlay to open the frunk.

To me this highlights the problem of not having physical buttons for things like opening the frunk and instead having to navigate through touchscreens or away from a screen you are actively using (whether it’s a CarPlay app or something else).

Also as an excuse for not supporting CarPlay this is a very weak argument because even if buttons have to all be on touchscreens there is no reason why CarPlay can’t exist alongside other screens or UI. Or why certain controls couldn’t also be inside a CarPlay app.

The new CarPlay allows for more complex composited screens so Now Playing data and controls for a podcast could exist right alongside controls for the car. But really what’s needed most is more physical buttons.

Opening the frunk should not only be a physical button but there should probably also be a purely mechanical way to open it in case the electrical system is completely shut down.

Didn’t Rivian have an early software bug where users couldn’t open the center console until the software was updated?

Any system that can be paralyzed by a software flaw needs to be redesigned with redundancy and other safeguards. Physical buttons should be considered essential.

I honestly would never buy a new car if the only way to open doors/hatch/frunk/trunk or any other variation was via a touch screen. That’s asinine. Honda caught hell for two years for killing the volume knob (and deservedly so) then they finally brought it back.

 

[Albal]

I might suffer through opening the frunk using a touch screen, but never the doors. In an emergency, the interior door handles must always work, and work in the obvious way.

And the CarPlay excuse -- that you would have to switch the screen away from CarPlay to open the frunk -- is actually kind of hilarious. Isn't it just that switching that is the foundation of their UI? You're always having to switch to the right screen (and subscreen) to get something done. That's why we love these systems so much! /s.