Head light and tailight

[Jim Nichols]

Round 7" lights like the Jeep Wrangler but with Halos that wrap around for daylight running lights and side markers. Tail light shape like Scout II but half again larger with wrap around Halos. Top half red, middle amber turn and bottom back up. Front turn/ park like Scout II but larger. Lenses like cut crystal, not neon look. Just my opinion.

 

[R1TVT]

Interesting with the launch of the new Landcruiser, the vehicle will offer round headlights on the base trim (1958 model) and on the high-end trim (first edition model). They look good:

2024 Toyota Land Cruiser Lets You Choose Between Round and Square Headlights

In an unusual move, the new 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser offers two completely different headlight designs depending on the trim.

www.thedrive.com

 

[TaconicBear]

I pretty much laid out my feelings in the "Learn from Bronco" discussion. Here's a clip.

Headlights clearly are going through a widespread design revolution. It is quite clear that since the LED became the goto "lightbulb" because of it's longevity, size, flexibility, and minimal cost all the automotive designers have had a field day in creating new light layouts. A few, Kia with the square surrounds, Rivian with the vertical bathtubs, Porche with it's Four Point Principle, and Bronco which brands them with a circle-bar, seem to have settled on their designs like trademarks as much as the portholes in the hoods of old Buicks, and rear stripes on Pontiacs. I kinda like the Bronco circle-bar design, Rivian is growing on me; there are many which are far worse on/to my eyes. With the current situation of federal regulations forcing near-homogenous body design on anything even remotely called a SUV the designers have to find something to say "here comes a ______" and the lights, particularly with daytime running lights becoming pretty much standard are about the most noticeable feature that's identifiable from any distance. I'm no fan of the DRLs which flow in cascades all over the nose clip. I would hope the SM designers find something simple and uniquely distinctive (yes, trademark-like) that they can stick with over the years.

 

[lefty]

I pretty much laid out my feelings in the "Learn from Bronco" discussion. Here's a clip.

Headlights clearly are going through a widespread design revolution. It is quite clear that since the LED became the goto "lightbulb" because of it's longevity, size, flexibility, and minimal cost all the automotive designers have had a field day in creating new light layouts. A few, Kia with the square surrounds, Rivian with the vertical bathtubs, Porche with it's Four Point Principle, and Bronco which brands them with a circle-bar, seem to have settled on their designs like trademarks as much as the portholes in the hoods of old Buicks, and rear stripes on Pontiacs. I kinda like the Bronco circle-bar design, Rivian is growing on me; there are many which are far worse on/to my eyes. With the current situation of federal regulations forcing near-homogenous body design on anything even remotely called a SUV the designers have to find something to say "here comes a ______" and the lights, particularly with daytime running lights becoming pretty much standard are about the most noticeable feature that's identifiable from any distance. I'm no fan of the DRLs which flow in cascades all over the nose clip. I would hope the SM designers find something simple and uniquely distinctive (yes, trademark-like) that they can stick with over the years.

Well stated, TaconicBear. As someone mentioned on another forum, it's unclear why the shift to EV seems to have spawned such strange design changes with huge lights that run across the front and back of the vehicle. It would be nice if SM pursues a modern take of the original, square design without needing to put their "we're now an EV" look to it.

 

[R1TVT]

I'm not sure the shift came with EV's as much as it came with LED's and DRL's... You can look back to the LED hammer used by volvo, the amber used on raptors, the Audi shark eye DRL, etc. Recognition of BRAND is what is front and center for a designer, and with EV's this was just another unique way to generate more eyeballs, gain more brand recognition, and further demonstrate a separation from ICE counterparts. Rivian was very specific in starting with a clean slate, and the stadium lights with the DRL crossbar between them make it really easy to identify a R1S or R1T from very far away. A lot of the EV designs are purposefully using lights (which equate to electricity) to further distinguish themselves. VW did this also. This is huge if your job is to design something new to market (if it is controversial, even better from a design perspective). Anything a company can do to draw interest or create conversation is a good thing for the brand - even if some people don't like it.

 

[TaconicBear]

I'm not sure the shift came with EV's as much as it came with LED's and DRL's... You can look back to the LED hammer used by volvo, the amber used on raptors, the Audi shark eye DRL, etc. Recognition of BRAND is what is front and center for a designer, and with EV's this was just another unique way to generate more eyeballs, gain more brand recognition, and further demonstrate a separation from ICE counterparts. Rivian was very specific in starting with a clean slate, and the stadium lights with the DRL crossbar between them make it really easy to identify a R1S or R1T from very far away. A lot of the EV designs are purposefully using lights (which equate to electricity) to further distinguish themselves. VW did this also. This is huge if your job is to design something new to market (if it is controversial, even better from a design perspective). Anything a company can do to draw interest or create conversation is a good thing for the brand - even if some people don't like it.

I never suggested it was a feature of the EVs. Otherwise you just amplify my point.

 

[R1TVT]

I was just responding to Lefty, shoulda used quotes. All good.

 

[TaconicBear]

Well stated, TaconicBear. As someone mentioned on another forum, it's unclear why the shift to EV seems to have spawned such strange design changes with huge lights that run across the front and back of the vehicle. It would be nice if SM pursues a modern take of the original, square design without needing to put their "we're now an EV" look to it.

I don't see the shift to EV as causative, rather an extension (and in some instances an exxxxageration) of creativity enabled by LEDs. I also do not see square design as original or classic to Scouts since the square headlights were very short lived in the twenty year evolution of Scouts.

 

[R1TVT]

How about a headlight that has a LED circle (with original Scout headlight dimensions) sitting inside a LED square box that is customizable by the driver? Might be an interesting and potentially unique look, with a tip of the cap to the original Scouts.

For some reason, I'm thinking the Scout headlight is already designed and prototyped and will be awesome... Looking forward to seeing it.

 

[lefty]

For some reason, I agree, it probably already is designed

 

[TaconicBear]

How about a headlight that has a LED circle (with original Scout headlight dimensions) sitting inside a LED square box that is customizable by the driver? Might be an interesting and potentially unique look, with a tip of the cap to the original Scouts.

For some reason, I'm thinking the Scout headlight is already designed and prototyped and will be awesome... Looking forward to seeing it.

Your concept relies on the flat front design of the legacy Scouts. In observing current light design of head/park/directional light clusters it is clear that they are pretty much wrap-around to make the same unit cover both forward and side visibility. So I think your concept might call for the return of side marker lights (I think they are now required). And rear TBD clusters seem to follow the same wrap-to-the-side concept mostly.

Back in the day, cops used to have a cheat-sheet of tail light configurations as a quick identifier of make/model, and most pretty much committed it to memory. Today they'd need the memory of a Jeopardy contestant to know all the crazy designs out there.

 

[Scout800a]

Has nobody realized that some of those "LED" headlamps are actually laser? BMW and Audi have been playing around with those. Main advantage is light steering - you can put light only where you want/need it and not just flood light down the road. Also opens up to e-Tron from Audi that user can select their headlamp animations and car displays brand logo at startup (projected on surface in front of vehicle). More applicable is demo of actual system in VW Touareg (among other models I assume) that use this for more practical use of not blinding on coming traffic or pedestrians. How it works is forward camera sees something that light should not blind and either a blind moves inside lamp to block light or light source is switched off to that location (LED lamp in Audi/VW has hundreds to thousands of diodes). Here is an older video that demonstrates the system in practice. LINK And here is current Touareg matrix headlamp LINK

Alternatively newer light concept would have car appear to not even have active headlamps, but rather specialized laser in combination with display windshield would make roadway appear as clear as mid day to driver while staying effectively dark to everyone else.

And then there are the matrix tail lamps that are not DOT approved, yet. VW uses them on EU spec cars but has not gotten them past DOT regs yet. Forget one static lamp shape or design, but rather customized to your liking (limited of course by DOT rules) LINK

Jason

 

[76scout]

I pretty much laid out my feelings in the "Learn from Bronco" discussion. Here's a clip.

Headlights clearly are going through a widespread design revolution. It is quite clear that since the LED became the goto "lightbulb" because of it's longevity, size, flexibility, and minimal cost all the automotive designers have had a field day in creating new light layouts. A few, Kia with the square surrounds, Rivian with the vertical bathtubs, Porche with it's Four Point Principle, and Bronco which brands them with a circle-bar, seem to have settled on their designs like trademarks as much as the portholes in the hoods of old Buicks, and rear stripes on Pontiacs. I kinda like the Bronco circle-bar design, Rivian is growing on me; there are many which are far worse on/to my eyes. With the current situation of federal regulations forcing near-homogenous body design on anything even remotely called a SUV the designers have to find something to say "here comes a ______" and the lights, particularly with daytime running lights becoming pretty much standard are about the most noticeable feature that's identifiable from any distance. I'm no fan of the DRLs which flow in cascades all over the nose clip. I would hope the SM designers find something simple and uniquely distinctive (yes, trademark-like) that they can stick with over the years.

Agreed. The DOT safety regs of making obnoxious DRLs everywhere is too much. Simple with the bare minimum DRLs would be great.

 

[GotScout]

Before we do headlights... everyone (in design) needs to learn kelvin temps, how they effect vision, and then what "WHITE" is...

 

[TaconicBear]

Before we do headlights... everyone (in design) needs to learn kelvin temps, how they effect vision, and then what "WHITE" is...

Yup, <4000k

 

[GotScout]

Ideal would be 4500°K LOW, 3400°K HIGH... thus when you NEED high in bad weather... it cuts through (rain/snow/fog/dust) rather than reflecting back!!

 

[J Alynn]

Yup, <4000k

Under 4K will give the warm glow which is a great throwback touch rather than the blue LED of so many new vehicles

 

[GotScout]

Under 4K will give the warm glow which is a great throwback touch rather than the blue LED of so many new vehicles

Yeah I get that... I hate LED's pointed forward. Tails... fine.

 

[B Payne]

My two cents regarding headlights - I recognize that the new Scout will not be an exact reproduction of the original with electric power. I wouldn't expect it to be, particularly given modern safety concerns etc. Of course the Scout will be much safer in the lighting department. LED lighting is great. However, few are suitably styled for a vehicle meant to evoke an old 4WD. 7-inch round headlights are one of the most important visual cues that mark a vintage styled vehicle and if you do not consider that, you could mess up like Ford did with the new Bronco. Make no mistake, ALL vintage American vehicles (fitted with a single pair of lights) used 7-inch round, sealed beam headlights, The first rectangular headlights I remember seeing on an American vehicle was in 1980. My apologies to 1980 scout owners, but the switch to rectangular headlights was a mistake. I hope to God that the new Scout DOES NOT USE anything but a headlight that looks like a classic 7-inch round headlight. I also hope that you DO NOT use a design that employs halos. The new Ford Bronco's gleam was diminished somewhat by their decision to use of halo headlights and tail lights. I hope that you consider using LED headlights that are period correct (link). I personally would like to see these with glass lenses instead of polycarbonate. I also agree with TaconicBear that the new Scout should make use of side marker lights rather than a headlight and tail light design that wraps around the vehicle.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

My two cents regarding headlights - I recognize that the new Scout will not be an exact reproduction of the original with electric power. I wouldn't expect it to be, particularly given modern safety concerns etc. Of course the Scout will be much safer in the lighting department. LED lighting is great. However, few are suitably styled for a vehicle meant to evoke an old 4WD. 7-inch round headlights are one of the most important visual cues that mark a vintage styled vehicle and if you do not consider that, you could mess up like Ford did with the new Bronco. Make no mistake, ALL vintage American vehicles (fitted with a single pair of lights) used 7-inch round, sealed beam headlights, The first rectangular headlights I remember seeing on an American vehicle was in 1980. My apologies to 1980 scout owners, but the switch to rectangular headlights was a mistake. I hope to God that the new Scout DOES NOT USE anything but a headlight that looks like a classic 7-inch round headlight. I also hope that you DO NOT use a design that employs halos. The new Ford Bronco's gleam was diminished somewhat by their decision to use of halo headlights and tail lights. I hope that you consider using LED headlights that are period correct (link). I personally would like to see these with glass lenses instead of polycarbonate. I also agree with TaconicBear that the new Scout should make use of side marker lights rather than a headlight and tail light design that wraps around the vehicle.

It would sure be nice to have something that’s easy to replace, like those linked headlights, instead of everything being customized and requiring specialized installation/repair.