Thoughts about an EV off-roader?

[NitroMudder]

Got my 2500 ZR2, now looking for the wife's daily / future off-roader. The 4 options we are looking at are
1) Bronco Sasquatch, better on-road, Less future options with IFS, not a fan of needing turbo to get to daily useable power on a small engine. The eco-boost has many more durability issues then the 5.0 V8's do.
2) Jeep Wrangler 4dr. Not as nice on-road, but huge aftermarket for off-road and overlanding. 3.6l in our van is just shy of 300k miles so it is durable but low on torque.
3) Jeep Gladiator Same as above but bigger and heavier, will probably LS swap when she is done with it.
4) Colorado ZR2 Bison. Best value and power. IFS limits big tire future and 2.7L Turbo has not been real word durability and longevity proven to me yet. Smaller Aftermarket support, but growing
5)New Scout. Most expensive option due to needing to V6 or V8 swap it as soon as the wife is done with it due to lack of charging on weeklong off grid trips.. Will need entire new drivetrain and frame. Great name, concept pics look great. Dad was an engineer on the Scout II. Wife will need a 2nd vehicle for trips to see in-laws. refuses to stand in a parking lot for an hour with kids at night while it charges.

Am I alone on here thinking off-roaders won't embrace EV, but would love an all new Scout to compete with the above contenders. Or am I wrong? I was very excited when I saw there was going to be a new scout. Seriously excited........for about 10 seconds until I heard EV. Wanting to hear others opinions. The only thread I have seen was about 90% disappointed it was going EV.

 

[J Alynn]

What about the Northeast? We have some great wet trails like in Shamokin, PA? I'd love to see a Scout on the Coal Mountain course.

Being from Lancaster I know your area a bit. Nothing wrong there but typically everyone wants to conquer the Rubicon Trail as bragging rights (IGuess-or at least to prove Jeep isn’t the only one capable) so might as well start there and prove it to all the ICE naysayers

 

[oldgeeksguide]

I got my back side chew on very severely due to posting a news article related to Teslas failing from driving in flooded streets from tropical storms here in Florida.

You have supported my discussion of people using common sense. Why would you even consider driving in water with an EV?

Sorry if I come off as being unreasonable, but why?

I think you’re being very reasonable. It all depends on the vehicle and what it’s built to withstand. An ice car with exhaust 6 inches off the ground shouldn’t drive through water a foot deep, but a vehicle with a snorkel might be able to handle several feet of water. Rivians are built to handle water at least 3 and a half feet deep, so if it’s not flowing too fast it should be ok to drive through with damaging it. Despite what a certain ceo may say, I don’t think most teslas are designed for flood waters, so it doesn’t surprise me that a Tesla might get seriously damaged driving through deep water. Someone might get lucky, or they might not; either way someone will post the video as proof of something.

Common sense would tell me not to take chances unless it’s definitely safe, but if common sense were widespread then “Florida man” wouldn’t be a meme

 

[kagreen]

Being from Lancaster I know your area a bit. Nothing wrong there but typically everyone wants to conquer the Rubicon Trail as bragging rights (IGuess-or at least to prove Jeep isn’t the only one capable) so might as well start there and prove it to all the ICE naysayers

Lancaster, not a bad area for finding old farm trails. Its also not that far from Rausch. I agree with you about the Rubicon course however I think the average off-road enthusiast hasn't done their course. I would love to see Scout on some of the woodland trails. I have memories of my grandfather pulling out a willies or two with his old Scout I think Jeep just has more attention and more events. I'd love to see this new EV at a mixed vehicle event. I found this forum because i'm in the process of shopping for a project vehicle and I want it to be a scout. Though I love the idea of maybe scrapping the idea of redoing a vintage vehicle and seeing what an EV can do.

 

[J Alynn]

Lancaster, not a bad area for finding old farm trails. Its also not that far from Rausch. I agree with you about the Rubicon course however I think the average off-road enthusiast hasn't done their course. I would love to see Scout on some of the woodland trails. I have memories of my grandfather pulling out a willies or two with his old Scout I think Jeep just has more attention and more events. I'd love to see this new EV at a mixed vehicle event. I found this forum because i'm in the process of shopping for a project vehicle and I want it to be a scout. Though I love the idea of maybe scrapping the idea of redoing a vintage vehicle and seeing what an EV can do.

Agree with your point thoughts. Some typical PA/DE trails are likely most I’ll ever tackle but the Rubicon would at least shut down the EV nay-sayers. I get off road and Scout enthusiasts never thought about an EV solution but proving it works to the extreme crowd might bring some of a certain demographic over to EV’s.
I’ve said before, I’m fortunate that this will be a fun car as my daily currently flips between a hybrid Accord and a Bronco Outerbanks. Each has is joys and benefits.

 

[kagreen]

Agree with your point thoughts. Some typical PA/DE trails are likely most I’ll ever tackle but the Rubicon would at least shut down the EV nay-sayers. I get off road and Scout enthusiasts never thought about an EV solution but proving it works to the extreme crowd might bring some of a certain demographic over to EV’s.
I’ve said before, I’m fortunate that this will be a fun car as my daily currently flips between a hybrid Accord and a Bronco Outerbanks. Each has is joys and benefits.

HI J, I completely agree on the national level I think there is a lot that can be accomplished by showing what can be done at events and trails like Rubicon. Proving that an EV can not only compete, but instead beat out other brands and types of vehicles in certain areas is important to convince the average owner. I do however think that the reason jeep has the niche it has in off road is because they are everywhere, they are at these small events that the average enthusiast can get to and experience.

 

[J Alynn]

HI J, I completely agree on the national level I think there is a lot that can be accomplished by showing what can be done at events and trails like Rubicon. Proving that an EV can not only compete, but instead beat out other brands and types of vehicles in certain areas is important to convince the average owner. I do however think that the reason jeep has the niche it has in off road is because they are everywhere, they are at these small events that the average enthusiast can get to and experience.

Agreed. That said they’ve more or less owned that niche for over 40 years. Bronco bit into that demographic but the Jeep bloodline is deep so the cult like following is fully understandable. The new Hummer and Rivian hit a price point that most Jeep owners didn’t have interest or money to jump in and try to give the EV off-road segment a jump start. If Sm can retail it for mid $50K mark with some form of tax incentive AND can prove it trail worthy AND justify a range of 325-350 I think it may be the catalyst to start moving more people into the EV camp. Daily drivers/commuters will certainly be a tougher sell but if it ends up being an open top adventure/lifestyle vehicle that is a third/fun vehicle I think it will take off very quickly. I think the nostalgia play and exterior/interior color palettes will play a HUGE roll as well.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

All this talk about rubicon trail reminds me - https://stories.rivian.com/r1s-first-production-ev-rubicon-trail

 

[J Alynn]

All this talk about rubicon trail reminds me - https://stories.rivian.com/r1s-first-production-ev-rubicon-trail

Kinda helps to make the point. Wonder how much gas the majority of SUV’s use. This was a great debrief and certainly sets the bar for Scout Motors
Thanks for sharing this

 

[RebelliousPeasant]

I was super excited when I heard that the Scout is coming back until I read that it is going to be an EV. I love the idea of building a small, off-road capable suv, but I will never buy an EV. EV's are expensive, unreliable, don't last, are a pain to charge, hard to work on, have a limited range, and are not selling very well. If the Scout had a gas engine I would seriouslly consider buying one. Now, a hybrid with the extra torque of the electric motors and extended range would be very cool. Better yet would be to build a small, simple, reliable, off-road capable, and highly customizable vehicle like the original Scout and they will sell.

Couple of points you got wrong there jacobK.

EVs aren't more expensive than the combustion cars they compete with, there just aren't any low-end "cheap" EVs yet. Compare like for like and they're cost competitive so your first point isn't accurate. They are also far more reliable than combustion cars, they're mechanically much simpler and they actually do last quite a long time. All EV power trains are warrantied for 8 years or 160,000 kms and they last far longer than that. In all likelihood the power train of your EV will outlast the body. EVs also have no issues "starting" in the winter. They are objectively far more reliable than any combustion vehicle could ever dream of being.

Charging is super easy and way more convenient than having to go out of your way to hit up a gas station. You're just used to doing that so I can see how you would think it's harder to plug in at home. You can literally fill up anywhere with electricity. You can fill up from an outhouse if it has a porch light if you wanted to.

It's true they might be harder to work on but since they don't really have anything that breaks down there really isn't much to actually work on with an EV anyway, unless you rip off a wheel or something - then it's just normal car stuff (shocks, suspension etc) to repair it. They don't need oil changes, don't have exhaust systems, don't have belts, or alternators or and of the hundred other things combustion cars need that tend to fail.

Modern EV ranges match or exceed the range you get from a tank of gas now so that's not really an issue either. As for sales, if you actually look at the data you will find that combustion car sales actually peaked in 2017 and have been declining ever since. The ONLY growth in the auto industry is from EVs. If it weren't for EVs the whole auto industry would be in decline. EV sales growth has been around 50% year over year for a long time now. Every year sets new sales records so not sure how you can claim the "are not selling very well", the data just doesn't back that up.