Range extender - please adjust spec to 250 miles of EV Range

[Variable430]

The range extender should get at least 50% of its 500 mile range in pure EV mode otherwise it would be pretty worthless with only 150 miles that you can only get in ideal conditions. In the winter this likely means sub 100 miles pure EV range - not acceptable

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

We know there will be no direct connection between the Harvester and the wheels. The question is whether the Harvester will be able to power the traction motors when the battery is low or at 0%.

My guess is that it will not. My guess is that the Harvester will be designed for high efficiency rather than high power. It will be a small engine with 3 or 4 cylinders, as already mentioned, and it will not generate the power required to, for example, tow 10,000 pounds on its own or to accelerate from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. To do that requires a different engine tuning and different design. Instead, I think it will be an efficient engine that can keep the batteries charged enough to drive for 350 miles once the battery is down to about 50%.

My Tacoma required a 21 gallon tank to go 320 miles when it wasn't towing and could go about 180 miles when towing. I expect this is not what they want. I expect that what they're aiming for is to let the highly efficient electrical motors do the work and to augment that with an engine that can keep the battery from losing charge as quickly as it would without the engine feeding it. There will probably be a 10-gallon or smaller tank.

If they give you control over when the Harvester runs, and if it works as I imagine it might... Some hypermilers could probably increase the range before having to recharge the battery by quite a bit. If they start the Harvester early in their trip and stop to refuel with gas instead of recharge, it might be possible to get almost two tanks worth of hybrid driving out of one battery charge. If it's possible to be done this way, the technical EREV range will still be 500 miles, but the one-gas-stop range may be closer to 1000 miles. Assuming all the relevant caveats about range as usual.

 

[ID_ENG]

We know there will be no direct connection between the Harvester and the wheels. The question is whether the Harvester will be able to power the traction motors when the battery is low or at 0%.

My guess is that it will not. My guess is that the Harvester will be designed for high efficiency rather than high power. It will be a small engine with 3 or 4 cylinders, as already mentioned, and it will not generate the power required to, for example, tow 10,000 pounds on its own or to accelerate from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. To do that requires a different engine tuning and different design. Instead, I think it will be an efficient engine that can keep the batteries charged enough to drive for 350 miles once the battery is down to about 50%.

My Tacoma required a 21 gallon tank to go 320 miles when it wasn't towing and could go about 180 miles when towing. I expect this is not what they want. I expect that what they're aiming for is to let the highly efficient electrical motors do the work and to augment that with an engine that can keep the battery from losing charge as quickly as it would without the engine feeding it. There will probably be a 10-gallon or smaller tank.

If they give you control over when the Harvester runs, and if it works as I imagine it might... Some hypermilers could probably increase the range before having to recharge the battery by quite a bit. If they start the Harvester early in their trip and stop to refuel with gas instead of recharge, it might be possible to get almost two tanks worth of hybrid driving out of one battery charge. If it's possible to be done this way, the technical EREV range will still be 500 miles, but the one-gas-stop range may be closer to 1000 miles. Assuming all the relevant caveats about range as usual.

That's an interesting and intriguing observation. If it is possible to start the erev from the get go. If I know I'm doing a long trip. Getting near 1K miles with one gas stop would be amazing. Seems plausible.

Side note, I just did the math and I'm getting 250-280 miles per tank on my Wrangler currently and fill up about once per week and a half.

That's getting like 14-16 MPG. I feel like I'm in the bottom of the boat for efficiency for anyone daily driving a recreational vehicle. Granted I know I have to commute way less than the average person but feel like with the planned range it should work for most people. Especially ones coming from daily driving a brick with wheels.

 

[J Alynn]

I'm looking at this as a retirement vehicle for long trips. Mostly from S Utah to Vegas which is about 2 hours. I'd like to make that trip and back on 1 charge.

The EV is 350 miles. That would do it with no gas

 

[R1TVT]

I'm looking at this as a retirement vehicle for long trips. Mostly from S Utah to Vegas which is about 2 hours. I'd like to make that trip and back on 1 charge.

Sounds like a job for either the Harvester OR the pure EV.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I'm looking at this as a retirement vehicle for long trips. Mostly from S Utah to Vegas which is about 2 hours. I'd like to make that trip and back on 1 charge.

We regularly do a similar drive. Ours is from the Flagstaff, AZ area to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon via Cameron. It's a 2+ hour drive one way. We often don't bother to charge and usually make it home with at least 30% remaining. If we do decide we want to charge, it's easy enough--there's a bank of Level 2 chargers inside the Park, so we will plug in, buy a couple hours worth of electrons while we're hiking or whatever, and then make it home with 40-50% remaining. Elevation change is about 3200 feet in each direction.

 

[ohvrider]

The EV is 350 miles. That would do it with no gas

Yea but reason to live in Utah is to 4wheel and its easier to take a 5 gallon can then a generator and 5 gallon for it.

When Wife goes to Vegas I plan to 4x4 on way back.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

That's an interesting and intriguing observation. If it is possible to start the erev from the get go. If I know I'm doing a long trip. Getting near 1K miles with one gas stop would be amazing. Seems plausible.

Side note, I just did the math and I'm getting 250-280 miles per tank on my Wrangler currently and fill up about once per week and a half.

That's getting like 14-16 MPG. I feel like I'm in the bottom of the boat for efficiency for anyone daily driving a recreational vehicle. Granted I know I have to commute way less than the average person but feel like with the planned range it should work for most people. Especially ones coming from daily driving a brick with wheels.

I was getting 8-18 mpg in my Tacoma depending on what I was towing/hauling, and I couldn't safely tow my tractor on the freeway.

It was an easy calculation to get rid of gas and go all-electric as soon as we found the right deal with the Lightning. Even if we'd bought the Lightning at full price, the pay-for-itself time with the Lightning would have been just a few years.

 

[ID_ENG]

I was getting 8-18 mpg in my Tacoma depending on what I was towing/hauling, and I couldn't safely tow my tractor on the freeway.

It was an easy calculation to get ride of gas and go all-electric as soon as we found the right deal with the Lightning. Even if we'd bought the Lightning at full price, the pay-for-itself time with the Lightning would have been just a few years.

I need to calculate and factor in the cost of installing a L2 outlet in the garage.
That has to be considered too, for me at least.

 

[CarTechGeek]

I'm looking at this as a retirement vehicle for long trips. Mostly from S Utah to Vegas which is about 2 hours. I'd like to make that trip and back on 1 charge.

Wouldn't that be more than 150 miles? If so, it's not possible on one charge unless you run the Range extender.

 

[CarTechGeek]

My guess is that it will not. My guess is that the Harvester will be designed for high efficiency rather than high power. It will be a small engine with 3 or 4 cylinders, as already mentioned, and it will not generate the power required to, for example, tow 10,000 pounds on its own or to accelerate from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. To do that requires a different engine tuning and different design. Instead, I think it will be an efficient engine that can keep the batteries charged enough to drive for 350 miles once the battery is down to about 50%.

Efficiency and power are not mutually exclusive.

Using an inadequate engine will not make it anymore efficient.

The only impact of engine power on efficiency, is in engine weight.

But we are probably talking about less than 100 lbs weight that will enable a larger, more powerful engine to enable gas and go operations.

100 lbs is NOT that much on 6000 lbs truck (under 2%).

A small price to pay for a more functional truck.

 

[Chaz26]

Wouldn't that be more than 150 miles? If so, it's not possible on one charge unless you run the Range extender.

Depending on where is S Utah, it's around 120 miles from Vegas to St. George so might be doable if you start the trip at 100% and charge back to 100% before leaving without needing the harvester. Would be very close though I suspect.

 

[CarTechGeek]

Depending on where is S Utah, it's around 120 miles from Vegas to St. George so might be doable if you start the trip at 100% and charge back to 100% before leaving without needing the harvester. Would be very close though I suspect.

I take one charge to mean, the starting charge, IOW, not stopping to charge.

 

[Chaz26]

I take one charge to mean, the starting charge, IOW, not stopping to charge.

In that case, definitely no way without using the Harvester, even if they did up the range on the EV portion a decent amount. Would be doable in the EV only version though.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

In that case, definitely no way without using the Harvester, even if they did up the range on the EV portion a decent amount. Would be doable in the EV only version though.

Are you talking a 240 mile round trip starting at 100% and not charging anywhere before returning home?
I do that all the time in my Lightning.

 

[Chaz26]

Are you talking a 240 mile round trip starting at 100% and not charging anywhere before returning home?
I do that all the time in my Lightning.

Yes, but on the harvester model, I don’t see that happening on the ev only part, it’d need the gas generator to do round trip. EV only will no problem.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Yes, but on the harvester model, I don’t see that happening on the ev only part, it’d need the gas generator to do round trip. EV only will no problem.

Ah, I see. I must have missed some important context.

I struggle to understand where the Harvester would appeal to me in any of my use cases (around town, road tripping, offroad camping/boondocking, or towing my tractor, travel trailer, utility trailer, or water trailer as far as from northern Arizona to southern California).

 

[jamski]

I was watching the "out of spec reviews" video of the CES show. While they were speaking to the UI engineer, she talks about the 3 different options the extender will have
1. Auto - Engine is off and it Automatically turns on when the battery gets to a certain level
2. EV - Electric only
3. Max - Engine is on while battery is on to give max power for towing

I dont think #3 means it will power the drivetrain. I think it somehow gives the battery maximum power for towing without the fast draining?

 

[Chaz26]

I was watching the "out of spec reviews" video of the CES show. While they were speaking to the UI engineer, she talks about the 3 different options the extender will have
1. Auto - Engine is off and it Automatically turns on when the battery gets to a certain level
2. EV - Electric only
3. Max - Engine is on while battery is on to give max power for towing

I dont think #3 means it will power the drivetrain. I think it somehow gives the battery maximum power for towing without the fast draining?

I’m assuming it would just be on all the time, keeping the battery level as best as possible immediately from a high state of charge, rather than waiting until the battery gets to a lower percentage before kicking on.

 

[ohvrider]

Wouldn't that be more than 150 miles? If so, it's not possible on one charge unless you run the Range extender.

Exactly which is why i need the range extender or 500+ mile of pure EV range.

 

[Tyler88]

I am happy with 150 mile range on EV or even 100 mile range only on pure EV, but only if when using the range extender it does not sacrifice performance, acceleration, torque etc.