Dealers Move to Block Scout’s ‘Unlawful’ Direct Sales Plan That Cuts Them Out Entirely

[J Alynn]

Ironically, BYD and China continue to dominate the EV market with things like $14K EV pick-ups (as previously posted)
We in turn will add tariffs (so now it’s a $20K pickup) which still SUBSTANTIALLY undercuts any U.S. pick-ups. In the meantime we will more than likely see EV advancements rollback considerably(assumption based on preliminary news media I see) and as a country we will CONTINUE to fall behind other countries EV and battery development. All the while continuing to regrow fossil fuel development and environmental damage. And we wonder why the U.S. no longer leads the world in many things-other than Olympic medals. Making things great should be across the board and agreed upon by all-that’s how enthusiasm spreads in all work/job sectors and creates momentum that in turn builds a successful job force in all fields of work

 

[CarTechGeek]

Ironically, BYD and China continue to dominate the EV market with things like $14K EV pick-ups (as previously posted)
We in turn will add tariffs (so now it’s a $20K pickup) which still SUBSTANTIALLY undercuts any U.S. pick-ups. In the meantime we will more than likely see EV advancements rollback considerably(assumption based on preliminary news media I see) and as a country we will CONTINUE to fall behind other countries EV and battery development. All the while continuing to regrow fossil fuel development and environmental damage. And we wonder why the U.S. no longer leads the world in many things-other than Olympic medals. Making things great should be across the board and agreed upon by all-that’s how enthusiasm spreads in all work/job sectors and creates momentum that in turn builds a successful job force in all fields of work

I wouldn't pay much attention to super low prices inside of China, where there is a big price war for market share. If you want to look at what is achievable if they weren't tariff blocked, look to Mexico and Australia. Even without tariffs, those Chinese cars while good value, aren't showing those crazy low prices, because they aren't sacrificing margin, for market share grab. The BYD Shark is is the most interesting Chinese truck sold in Mexico and Australia. It's a PHEV pickup.

https://insideevs.com/news/719677/byd-shark-phev-will-it-come-to-us/

It starts about $53K USD. That's with no Tariff... So things aren't quite as crazy cheap as often portrayed in media.

While I agree about Tariffs causing Harm in the long term, they may be probably necessary in the short term, to give local companies a chance to catch up.

BUT, that's if they are actually accompanied by an actual strategy to help local companies make the Electric transition.

Unfortunately the plan now appears the opposite of that. Remove the incentives that will help manufacturers transition while protected by tariffs. So now that encourages US manufactures to stay in the past which is very unhealthy for them in the long term.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Ironically, BYD and China continue to dominate the EV market with things like $14K EV pick-ups (as previously posted)
We in turn will add tariffs (so now it’s a $20K pickup) which still SUBSTANTIALLY undercuts any U.S. pick-ups. In the meantime we will more than likely see EV advancements rollback considerably(assumption based on preliminary news media I see) and as a country we will CONTINUE to fall behind other countries EV and battery development. All the while continuing to regrow fossil fuel development and environmental damage. And we wonder why the U.S. no longer leads the world in many things-other than Olympic medals. Making things great should be across the board and agreed upon by all-that’s how enthusiasm spreads in all work/job sectors and creates momentum that in turn builds a successful job force in all fields of work

Even if we ignore the health and environmental benefits of reducing fossil fuel extraction and combustion, investing in EV technology is investing in the future. It's not just about automotive technology or what someone is driving.

• It's about all portable electronics. Battery research and development is dying in the US and is accelerating in China and other countries.
• It's about the automotive industry. When we're still selling slightly-improved Model-Ts and the rest of the world has access to spaceships on wheels, our automotive industry will wither (is withering).
• It's about energy security. If we depend on another country for an importable energy commodity and we piss off that country, we lose our energy. China and other countries are accelerating research into improving photovoltaics that will allow them to be unconcerned with energy imports.
• It's about space exploration and industry. Nearly all spacecraft use photovoltaics and batteries and will continue to do so for decades to centuries. We will lose the space energy race (and thus the new space race) if we don't increase investment into battery and PV research. EVs are prefect proving grounds for batteries that might end up in space.
• Other countries are investing research into battery swapping technology, which involves a lot of robotics and resilient battery research and development.
• Other countries are investing research into new ways to charge batteries, including induction, long-distance overhead charging, and others.
• There are literally hundreds of other technologies that will be advanced by investment into electric automobile research and development. And we're going backwards in the US.

 

[Scoutsie]

Even if we ignore the health and environmental benefits of reducing fossil fuel extraction and combustion, investing in EV technology is investing in the future. It's not just about automotive technology or what someone is driving.

• It's about all portable electronics. Battery research and development is dying in the US and is accelerating in China and other countries.
• It's about the automotive industry. When we're still selling slightly-improved Model-Ts and the rest of the world has access to spaceships on wheels, our automotive industry will wither (is withering).
• It's about energy security. If we depend on another country for an importable energy commodity and we piss off that country, we lose our energy. China and other countries are accelerating research into improving photovoltaics that will allow them to be unconcerned with energy imports.
• It's about space exploration and industry. Nearly all spacecraft use photovoltaics and batteries and will continue to do so for decades to centuries. We will lose the space energy race (and thus the new space race) if we don't increase investment into battery and PV research. EVs are prefect proving grounds for batteries that might end up in space.
• Other countries are investing research into battery swapping technology, which involves a lot of robotics and resilient battery research and development.
• Other countries are investing research into new ways to charge batteries, including induction, long-distance overhead charging, and others.
• There are literally hundreds of other technologies that will be advanced by investment into electric automobile research and development. And we're going backwards in the US.

I’ll add that there are long-term benefits to education and overall quality of life when we invest in EV technology. It is very unsettling when the wrong voices on the wrong platforms end up controlling the narrative on EVs because it suits the agenda of gas/oil to remain dominant instead of figuring out how gas/oil could adapt and/or evolve and also get a piece of the action.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I’ll add that there are long-term benefits to education and overall quality of life when we invest in EV technology. It is very unsettling when the wrong voices on the wrong platforms end up controlling the narrative on EVs because it suits the agenda of gas/oil to remain dominant instead of figuring out how gas/oil could adapt and/or evolve and also get a piece of the action.

10,000%
There are tons and tons of societal benefits besides the "national security" ones I mentioned. I was trying to keep to a specific domain in my comments, but EV technology R&D has so many benefits it was difficult for me to not just keep going and going.

 

[TXAN777]

Ironically, BYD and China continue to dominate the EV market with things like $14K EV pick-ups (as previously posted)
We in turn will add tariffs (so now it’s a $20K pickup) which still SUBSTANTIALLY undercuts any U.S. pick-ups. In the meantime we will more than likely see EV advancements rollback considerably(assumption based on preliminary news media I see) and as a country we will CONTINUE to fall behind other countries EV and battery development. All the while continuing to regrow fossil fuel development and environmental damage. And we wonder why the U.S. no longer leads the world in many things-other than Olympic medals. Making things great should be across the board and agreed upon by all-that’s how enthusiasm spreads in all work/job sectors and creates momentum that in turn builds a successful job force in all fields of work

So you're little rant did nothing more than belittle the dedication and perseverance of Olympic athletes and their accomplishments... you're obviously a much more important person.
Furthermore your jab at making things great needing to be across the board... that's never usually the case, someone will always get their feelings hurt and disagree somehow and instead of seeing to the needs of the whole our country will concede to the few.
A successful job force is built on trust and dedication of both management and employees... and as long as we have the corrupt media, crooked- self- serving politicians, and general public not willing to do anything about it America will never be great again. Hopefully people are tired of the rhetoric and are finally standing up.

I assumed you were all Mad because Musk moved in to your state from California

Nah, that was actually the richest and smartest business person on the planet thumbing his nose at the ridiculousness called California... just like most of the rest of the reasonable Californians fleeing the state. But so glad to see you couldn't leave it alone and had something ignorant to interject.

 

[TXAN777]

Ironically, BYD and China continue to dominate the EV market with things like $14K EV pick-ups (as previously posted)
We in turn will add tariffs (so now it’s a $20K pickup) which still SUBSTANTIALLY undercuts any U.S. pick-ups. In the meantime we will more than likely see EV advancements rollback considerably(assumption based on preliminary news media I see) and as a country we will CONTINUE to fall behind other countries EV and battery development. All the while continuing to regrow fossil fuel development and environmental damage. And we wonder why the U.S. no longer leads the world in many things-other than Olympic medals. Making things great should be across the board and agreed upon by all-that’s how enthusiasm spreads in all work/job sectors and creates momentum that in turn builds a successful job force in all fields of work

So you're little rant did nothing more than belittle the dedication and perseverance of Olympic athletes and their accomplishments... you're obviously a much more important person.
Furthermore your jab at making things great needing to be across the board... that's never usually the case, someone will always get their feelings hurt and disagree somehow and instead of seeing to the needs of the whole our country will concede to the few.
A successful job force is built on trust and dedication of both management and employees... and as long as we have the corrupt media, crooked- self- serving politicians, and general public not willing to do anything about it America will never be great again. Hopefully people are tired of the rhetoric and are finally standing up.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Let’s get this back on topic please.

 

[J Alynn]

I wouldn't pay much attention to super low prices inside of China, where there is a big price war for market share. If you want to look at what is achievable if they weren't tariff blocked, look to Mexico and Australia. Even without tariffs, those Chinese cars while good value, aren't showing those crazy low prices, because they aren't sacrificing margin, for market share grab. The BYD Shark is is the most interesting Chinese truck sold in Mexico and Australia. It's a PHEV pickup.

https://insideevs.com/news/719677/byd-shark-phev-will-it-come-to-us/

It starts about $53K USD. That's with no Tariff... So things aren't quite as crazy cheap as often portrayed in media.

While I agree about Tariffs causing Harm in the long term, they may be probably necessary in the short term, to give local companies a chance to catch up.

BUT, that's if they are actually accompanied by an actual strategy to help local companies make the Electric transition.

Unfortunately the plan now appears the opposite of that. Remove the incentives that will help manufacturers transition while protected by tariffs. So now that encourages US manufactures to stay in the past which is very unhealthy for them in the long term.

Agree with you 100% as things currently go but will say right now the BYD and cheap Chinese aren’t directly impacting us within the U.S. (minimal sales/imports) it is hurting and challenging many of the large, legit manufactures and their ability to compete which ultimately impacts the entire automotive industry. Even the U.S. manufactures are impacted with a decline in their overseas sales. It’s just a losing direction and odd time in the global auto industry

 

[J Alynn]

So you're little rant did nothing more than belittle the dedication and perseverance of Olympic athletes and their accomplishments... you're obviously a much more important person.
Furthermore your jab at making things great needing to be across the board... that's never usually the case, someone will always get their feelings hurt and disagree somehow and instead of seeing to the needs of the whole our country will concede to the few.
A successful job force is built on trust and dedication of both management and employees... and as long as we have the corrupt media, crooked- self- serving politicians, and general public not willing to do anything about it America will never be great again. Hopefully people are tired of the rhetoric and are finally standing up.

Nah, that was actually the richest and smartest business person on the planet thumbing his nose at the ridiculousness called California... just like most of the rest of the reasonable Californians fleeing the state. But so glad to see you couldn't leave it alone and had something ignorant to interject.

FYI -to clarify my statements, prior to an injury my daughter was tracking to go to the 2024 Olympics. I am personally friends with a current medal winning Olympian and am acquaintances with 4 other Olympians and 3 hopefuls. I know the time and dedication it takes to become an elite athlete and personally sacrificed many things the past 10 years to allow my daughters hopes to be achieved -all of which ended due to an injury that set her back 5 years. Fortunately she was still successful enough in her sport to earn a college scholarship and win collegiate nationals all while successfully completing a college degree in an educational institution located in your state.
As for the rest of my opinions others appeared to agree so perhaps it just wasn’t written as clearly as I had hoped. Sorry to have upset you and for the misunderstanding.

 

[CourseCorrect]

I hope so, after buying a Tesla as my last vehicle, it is my hope to never have to set foot in a dealership again. If it does end up going through dealers, if I see even a $1 markup or a forced extra being added that I don't want, my order will be cancelled.

I agree, once you buy a car via DTC it is hard to imagine purchasing via a dealer again.

 

[Scoutsie]

FYI -to clarify my statements, prior to an injury my daughter was tracking to go to the 2024 Olympics. I am personally friends with a current medal winning Olympian and am acquaintances with 4 other Olympians and 3 hopefuls. I know the time and dedication it takes to become an elite athlete and personally sacrificed many things the past 10 years to allow my daughters hopes to be achieved -all of which ended due to an injury that set her back 5 years. Fortunately she was still successful enough in her sport to earn a college scholarship and win collegiate nationals all while successfully completing a college degree in an educational institution located in your state.
As for the rest of my opinions others appeared to agree so perhaps it just wasn’t written as clearly as I had hoped. Sorry to have upset you and for the misunderstanding.

For whatever it’s worth, I didn’t take what you said as a disparagement of Olympic athletes. I took it to mean that we should be putting in the same effort for things like STEM. I’ve now said all I ever need to say on this.

Since were talking about dealers [in California] sucking or perhaps not sucking, I suppose they’ve still got a right to make a living. I just wish it didn’t involve making a living by brow-beating people into giving you their money.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

For whatever it’s worth, I didn’t take what you said as a disparagement of Olympic athletes. I took it to mean that we should be putting in the same effort for things like STEM. I’ve now said all I ever need to say on this.

Since were talking about dealers [in California] sucking or perhaps not sucking, I suppose they’ve still got a right to make a living. I just wish it didn’t involve making a living by brow-beating people into giving you their money.

It's not even brow-beating. They wrote the laws that govern how we're allowed to buy vehicles and from whom. It's created legally-protected monopolies across the country.

In my town, there's zero competition. There are two or three families who own all of the dealerships. There's no more than one dealership per brand. If I want to find competition, I have to drive more than an hour.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

That the state of South Carolina, the selfsame state in which Scout will manufacture all of their vehicles, has a legislative ban on direct sales to consumers, is one of the most hilarious ironies that could possibly exist.

Will that cause problems for them selling from the factory?

 

[CarTechGeek]

It's not even brow-beating. They wrote the laws that govern how we're allowed to buy vehicles and from whom. It's created legally-protected monopolies across the country.

In my town, there's zero competition. There are two or three families who own all of the dealerships. There's no more than one dealership per brand. If I want to find competition, I have to drive more than an hour.

The USA talks a good game on Capitalism and free markets, but it's really is not very free in practice. It's mostly Crony Capitalism, where whoever gets a market position, Lobbies, and makes political donations (AKA pays bribes) to protect their position.

 

[Czernobog]

Will that cause problems for them selling from the factory?

Cannot remember which article it was, but I remember reading one where a Scout spokesperson said that unless this was addressed, Scout would have no choice but to locate their delivery/experience center in a different state.

 

[J Alynn]

Cannot remember which article it was, but I remember reading one where a Scout spokesperson said that unless this was addressed, Scout would have no choice but to locate their delivery/experience center in a different state.

I still question why I wouldn’t be able to order and pay online in PA then travel to SC to pick it up. Assuming you can buy a car out-of-state then pick it up there. I’m guessing they just can’t complete a sales transaction at the delivery center but I don’t know SC law. Just know in 2012 I ordered a bmw from PA and picked it up in SC and participated in their delivery experience

 

[Czernobog]

This could of course all be part of a pressure campaign seeking change. Found the quote and article:

It would also force the "thousands" of South Carolina residents who paid $100 to reserve the right to purchase a Scout vehicle to travel out-of-state to actually buy one, a conundrum company officials say could force them to build the so-called "Scout Experience Center" in another state entirely.

"It's important to say that we want to do this. We would really like to do this," Cody Thacker, vice president of growth at Scout Motors, said in an interview. "Unfortunately in South Carolina today it's not possible to sell Scouts directly to consumers."

This implies not that they'd not have factory pickups, but rather that they would not locate the experience Center in SC.

Without a change in state law, Scout Motors won't be able to sell its cars in SC. A fight awaits.

Scout Motors hopes to change laws to allow the SC-based startup to sell directly to consumers. They're expected to see quite a lot of pushback from the industry

www.postandcourier.com

 

[CarTechGeek]

I still question why I wouldn’t be able to order and pay online in PA then travel to SC to pick it up. Assuming you can buy a car out-of-state then pick it up there. I’m guessing they just can’t complete a sales transaction at the delivery center but I don’t know SC law. Just know in 2012 I ordered a bmw from PA and picked it up in SC and participated in their delivery experience

For the BMW, somewhere a dealer is still getting his cut, so they aren't going to complain...

But when they get cut out, they will fight with every tool at their disposal.

Since this is new situation, I expect the Dealers will file an injunction to stop factory pickup of Scouts, and courts can go either way. I'd expect this even if the case is a sure loser.

It's too bad that you pay sales tax in the state you register in. If you paid it in the state that sells the car, I bet a lot more states would open their doors to Direct sellers in their state to capture that revenue.

 

[Derek]

What you said in the first paragraph makes this case dismissed. Scout isn’t competing with VW, VW in an investor. Scout is an off-road vehicle manufacturer which is registered as an Independent American company, WV is a passenger car company. To completely different market places. California has no right to say Scout isn’t allowed to do D2C.

Honestly, if they had to take the "easy states" and then really finagle to get the "large EV market, but trickier rules" that would get them the most bang for the buck. California is 12% of the US population, but buys a lot of EV rigs, so it'd be good if SM can work it out to sell there. My little state, WA, only has 7M people, but buys as many EVs as many much larger states, so it's worth getting it sold here, etc. If Alabama, which barely buys any EVs, makes it impossible, then those customers might have to go buy out of state and it probably won't affect SM #'s a whole lot, though I'd love for people in every state to be able to buy a Scout without any hassle.