Brake pedal behavior: Preference?

[gonenative]

Please copy Honda CRV hybrid, it's the best calibration

 

[oldgeeksguide]

Most EVs I have driven let you choose the level of regen you want. You will have the option to drive as you normally do. Also, there is usually a creep function too if you like to lurch forward and modulate with your brake pedal.

However, the more you maximize your regenerative braking the more energy you recover. It also greatly reduces the wear on your brakes and pads.

There is always a certain amount of waste when you recover energy with regen. Most efficient thing to do is coast when possible, and maximize regen when you’re slowing down. That’s what the brake pedal does, when it’s done right, ie blended braking. You don’t need one pedal driving to maximize regen, and opd makes coasting very tricky.

 

[LastDayScout]

There is always a certain amount of waste when you recover energy with regen. Most efficient thing to do is coast when possible, and maximize regen when you’re slowing down. That’s what the brake pedal does, when it’s done right, ie blended braking. You don’t need one pedal driving to maximize regen, and opd makes coasting very tricky.

Are you basing this on driving a hybrid or an EV? I may have missed that earlier post. I’ve had the exact experience you described with a Camry Hybrid. Coasting often was its most significant energy recovery. With the EVs I’ve had the regen is forceful enough to act as full time brakes except for emergency braking. The two Teslas had choices of regen force and I stayed in the most aggressive. But, I still didn’t think its tuning was great. It was rather unpleasant at times. Now in a BMW iX that has choices as well. But, I find their most aggressive setting is nearly the perfect amount of regen. I rarely use the service brakes. I’ve got 35k miles on it and the pads and rotors look great! I like that it also displaces the estimated amount of energy recovered and how many estimated miles you’ve recovered. Pretty cool.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

Adding much larger tires really increased my regenerative braking on my current truck. Somehow it just doesn’t seem to reflect on the fuel gauge or fuel economy calculations. Strange.

 

[Logan]

Adding much larger tires really increased my regenerative braking on my current truck. Somehow it just doesn’t seem to reflect on the fuel gauge or fuel economy calculations. Strange.

You just need to drive downhill more .

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

You just need to drive downhill more .

I do get my best mileage on downhill sections, I’m a big fan for sure! 99+ mpg on most downhills

 

[oldgeeksguide]

Are you basing this on driving a hybrid or an EV? I may have missed that earlier post. I’ve had the exact experience you described with a Camry Hybrid. Coasting often was its most significant energy recovery. With the EVs I’ve had the regen is forceful enough to act as full time brakes except for emergency braking. The two Teslas had choices of regen force and I stayed in the most aggressive. But, I still didn’t think its tuning was great. It was rather unpleasant at times. Now in a BMW iX that has choices as well. But, I find their most aggressive setting is nearly the perfect amount of regen. I rarely use the service brakes. I’ve got 35k miles on it and the pads and rotors look great! I like that it also displaces the estimated amount of energy recovered and how many estimated miles you’ve recovered. Pretty cool.

I think we’re basically saying the same thing. My point is you shouldn’t have to think about exactly how the brakes are implemented, when you hit the brake pedal it should slow down as efficiently as possible, which in an ev would be mostly electric regen. There shouldn’t be any more wear on the brakes than if you’re using one pedal driving. There always seems to be a misconception that you only get regen from OPD but there’s no reason that that should be the case. I want to be able to easily adjust how much regen happens when I take my foot off the gas pedal, all the way from aggressive OPD to coasting, and know that regardless of that setting, when I hit the brakes it will slow down as efficiently as possible, not just blindly resorting to friction.

 

[LastDayScout]

Adding much larger tires really increased my regenerative braking on my current truck. Somehow it just doesn’t seem to reflect on the fuel gauge or fuel economy calculations. Strange.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

I think we’re basically saying the same thing. My point is you shouldn’t have to think about exactly how the brakes are implemented, when you hit the brake pedal it should slow down as efficiently as possible, which in an ev would be mostly electric regen. There shouldn’t be any more wear on the brakes than if you’re using one pedal driving. There always seems to be a misconception that you only get regen from OPD but there’s no reason that that should be the case. I want to be able to easily adjust how much regen happens when I take my foot off the gas pedal, all the way from aggressive OPD to coasting, and know that regardless of that setting, when I hit the brakes it will slow down as efficiently as possible, not just blindly resorting to friction.

I have to agree. This line of thinking actually seems to be the most logical. Especially the part about still being able to coast without having to find that sweet spot feathering the go pedal.

 

[LastDayScout]

I think we’re basically saying the same thing. My point is you shouldn’t have to think about exactly how the brakes are implemented, when you hit the brake pedal it should slow down as efficiently as possible, which in an ev would be mostly electric regen. There shouldn’t be any more wear on the brakes than if you’re using one pedal driving. There always seems to be a misconception that you only get regen from OPD but there’s no reason that that should be the case. I want to be able to easily adjust how much regen happens when I take my foot off the gas pedal, all the way from aggressive OPD to coasting, and know that regardless of that setting, when I hit the brakes it will slow down as efficiently as possible, not just blindly resorting to friction.

I more clearly understand what you are saying now. I enjoy this sort of discussion and learning. Good post!

 

[LastDayScout]

I have to agree. This line of thinking actually seems to be the most logical. Especially the part about still being able to coast without having to find that sweet spot feathering the go pedal.

Again, usually you can user adjust this setting. I hope that Scout includes it. That way everyone will be able to have the set up they want. This will lead to better user reviews and more sales!

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

Again, usually you can user adjust this setting. I hope that Scout includes it. That way everyone will be able to have the set up they want. This will lead to better user reviews and more sales!

Definitely. I completely agree!

 

[R1TVT]

I’d guess they’ll have a couple of settings to have either one pedal or so you can use the brakes. As a current ev owner it’s almost a must for me that single pedal driving would be an option as it’s so much better than two pedal driving.

Just to be really clear on this, one pedal driving is not mutually exclusive from "using the brakes". You can (for example) set your regen to LOW and use REGEN and use the brakes to stop the vehicle faster while decelerating. Just want to make sure people don't think that "one pedal driving" means no brakes...

The debate seems to be mostly about how the functions of both braking and regen will be implemented (and how they will work together,) and whether there is true coasting available when you lift your foot off the accelerator completely (as an option).

Nobody wants to use traditional friction braking in an EV when they can use regen, but I do understand that some people might want to move REGEN over to the brake pedal (as opposed to modulating the accelerator).

Personally, I have never seen or driven a pure EV that coasts when you lift your foot all the way off the accelerator and has Regen on the mechanical brake (combined with traditional friction braking). Which EV trucks have implemented a full coasting mode? How do you like it?

 

[LastDayScout]

Just to be really clear on this, one pedal driving is not mutually exclusive from "using the brakes". You can (for example) set your regen to LOW and use REGEN and use the brakes to stop the vehicle faster while decelerating. Just want to make sure people don't think that "one pedal driving" means no brakes...

The debate seems to be mostly about how the functions of both braking and regen will be implemented (and how they will work together,) and whether there is true coasting available when you lift your foot off the accelerator completely (as an option).

Nobody wants to use traditional friction braking in an EV when they can use regen, but I do understand that some people might want to move REGEN over to the brake pedal (as opposed to modulating the accelerator).

Personally, I have never seen or driven a pure EV that coasts when you lift your foot all the way off the accelerator and has Regen on the mechanical brake (combined with traditional friction braking). Which EV trucks have implemented a full coasting mode? How do you like it?

This is all 100% correct and articulated very well.

 

[shnngns]

My preference is 1 pedal driving, it would be nice to have the option to turn it off cause I'm all about options and customizations. But even if it had it I'd still just leave it in 1 pedal driving mode

 

[Thi31]

Absolutely hate one pedal driving.

Perfect system is regen tied to the brake pedal similar to the id.4.

Let me coast.

 

[Fins160]

The MachE and other vehicles have "blended" regen on the brake. When you initially press the brake (lightly) it uses regen only. As you press harder, it starts to initiate the friction brakes as well. Feels just like a "normal" 2-pedal car, coasting and such, but you still get to regen as long as you are braking slowly and now slamming on the brakes.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Just to be really clear on this, one pedal driving is not mutually exclusive from "using the brakes". You can (for example) set your regen to LOW and use REGEN and use the brakes to stop the vehicle faster while decelerating. Just want to make sure people don't think that "one pedal driving" means no brakes...

The debate seems to be mostly about how the functions of both braking and regen will be implemented (and how they will work together,) and whether there is true coasting available when you lift your foot off the accelerator completely (as an option).

Nobody wants to use traditional friction braking in an EV when they can use regen, but I do understand that some people might want to move REGEN over to the brake pedal (as opposed to modulating the accelerator).

Personally, I have never seen or driven a pure EV that coasts when you lift your foot all the way off the accelerator and has Regen on the mechanical brake (combined with traditional friction braking). Which EV trucks have implemented a full coasting mode? How do you like it?

This is correct. Most EVs have some sort of blended braking where the mechanical friction brakes don't engage immediately when the brake pedal is applied but rather there's a gradation between regenerative braking and friction braking with a higher fraction of friction braking as the pedal is depressed deeper or with more force.

You can't implement a true coast mode on most (all?) current EVs because the motors are mechanically connected to the wheels without a clutch or other means of mechanical disengagement of any sort. The closest they can do is to power the motors at just the right amount to simulate coasting--Ford does this with their AWD motors--and with it, there's a nearly 0kW draw from the front motor at constant speeds which means the controller is sending just enough power to the motor to counter what it would be regenerating. But that is quite a bit less efficient than regen when the goal is to slow the vehicle.

If the Scout implemented an option for activating fully open differentials, they could enable all sorts of interesting options, including coasting and powering off one of the two motors during certain kinds of driving. But they would have to have synchros in the differentials to bring the gears back to the right speeds, which would make them heavier, etc. I'm not sure (and haven't looked) if there's an e-axle out there that allows on-the-fly open differential at speed? I, for one, don't want a clutch on my vehicle since that would add unnecessary maintenance.

 

[AndyS_OSU]

After 10 years in EVs I can barely drive a car with friction brakes.

That said I would love one peddle driving PLUS paddles for more aggressive regen. This is what is offered in the BoltEV and it’s one of the only things I miss about that car (in addition to the rear view camera)

 

[oldgeeksguide]

Just to be really clear on this, one pedal driving is not mutually exclusive from "using the brakes". You can (for example) set your regen to LOW and use REGEN and use the brakes to stop the vehicle faster while decelerating. Just want to make sure people don't think that "one pedal driving" means no brakes...

The debate seems to be mostly about how the functions of both braking and regen will be implemented (and how they will work together,) and whether there is true coasting available when you lift your foot off the accelerator completely (as an option).

Nobody wants to use traditional friction braking in an EV when they can use regen, but I do understand that some people might want to move REGEN over to the brake pedal (as opposed to modulating the accelerator).

Personally, I have never seen or driven a pure EV that coasts when you lift your foot all the way off the accelerator and has Regen on the mechanical brake (combined with traditional friction braking). Which EV trucks have implemented a full coasting mode? How do you like it?

I don’t know about current ev trucks, but all the Kia/hyundai vehicles I’ve tried have regen paddles that allow regen to be reduced to nil, so you coast when you lift your foot off the pedal.