Audible pedestrian warning noise

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OlBlueCanDo

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Mar 5, 2023
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As many have probably noticed on current electric and hybrid vehicles, most have an odd spaceship/ethereal sound emitting from vehicles at low speeds when in EV/Electric mode.

Just wondering if the engineering powers that be have considered using this pedestrian warning noise (not sure if this is a safety requirement or not) as an opportunity to provide options/upgrades for various Scout models/trims.

For example, piping in the reminiscent idle of a vintage 345 when a Scout is coasting/decelerating below 10 mph or is at a stop.

Perhaps there's an opportunity to provide a luxury trim of this audio feature that matches accelerator pedal usage to rev sounds emitted from the external speaker with a toggle feature to only use the pedestrian warning noise and not audio for all acceleration/deceleration.

I know Hollywood has done a spoof/commentary on this in the 2011 movie The Dilemma, but it could add value to the Scout.
 
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I think there was some early discussions about this in the design thread but certainly worth new discussions and like your idea. A quality idling sound would be a nice throw back and would be better than the space ship sounds (being dramatic here) of so many other EV’s
 
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As many have probably noticed on current electric and hybrid vehicles, most have an odd spaceship/ethereal sound emitting from vehicles at low speeds when in EV/Electric mode.

Just wondering if the engineering powers that be have considered using this pedestrian warning noise (not sure if this is a safety requirement or not) as an opportunity to provide options/upgrades for various Scout models/trims.

For example, piping in the reminiscent idle of a vintage 345 when a Scout is coasting/decelerating below 10 mph or is at a stop.

Perhaps there's an opportunity to provide a luxury trim of this audio feature that matches accelerator pedal usage to rev sounds emitted from the external speaker with a toggle feature to only use the pedestrian warning noise and not audio for all acceleration/deceleration.

I know Hollywood has done a spoof/commentary on this in the 2011 movie The Dilemma, but it could add value to the Scout.

I just bought a new Toyota Tundra Limited to haul my Scouts (on trailer) to our shows and gatherings. The Turbo V-6 really is pretty quiet so someone decided that it needed Fake Engine Noise (yes, FEN is Toyota's official term for it). Some &$*/@#$ at Toyota decided that we all wanted to sound like we were burning coal at every stop sign and traffic light. Like many on the Tundra forum, my first trip back to the dealer was to have it turned off. Yes, they hid the control so dealer's could charge their 1/2 hour minimum to shut it off -- it should have been buried in the on-screen Setup options. (My dealer turned it off in 5 minutes at no cost.) Anyway, vehicles are typically a good blind for watching wildlife and we do a lot of that, my RAV4 hybrid can really sneak up on some wild critters when operating in electric only mode. I have always used my old Scouts that way even though they weren't exactly quiet. I want my Scout to be as quiet as possible, no sound more than the crunch of the tires on the trail.

I understand the plea for a pedestrian warning sound, and blowing the horn is too much. But rather than another constant noise in our environment perhaps we could have something akin to a bicycle bell which we could sound when a pedestrian was in need of a warning.
 
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I just bought a new Toyota Tundra Limited to haul my Scouts (on trailer) to our shows and gatherings. The Turbo V-6 really is pretty quiet so someone decided that it needed Fake Engine Noise (yes, FEN is Toyota's official term for it). Some &$*/@#$ at Toyota decided that we all wanted to sound like we were burning coal at every stop sign and traffic light. Like many on the Tundra forum, my first trip back to the dealer was to have it turned off. Yes, they hid the control so dealer's could charge their 1/2 hour minimum to shut it off -- it should have been buried in the on-screen Setup options. (My dealer turned it off in 5 minutes at no cost.) Anyway, vehicles are typically a good blind for watching wildlife and we do a lot of that, my RAV4 hybrid can really sneak up on some wild critters when operating in electric only mode. I have always used my old Scouts that way even though they weren't exactly quiet. I want my Scout to be as quiet as possible, no sound more than the crunch of the tires on the trail.

I understand the plea for a pedestrian warning sound, and blowing the horn is too much. But rather than another constant noise in our environment perhaps we could have something akin to a bicycle bell which we could sound when a pedestrian was in need of a warning.
The intent is more for blind people crossing roads as well as distracted pedestrians. Allowing distracted drivers at a red light to control it would never work in urban environments. I lay on my horn multiple times a week because people are texting at traffic lights. Ideally it should be a driver function so if you aren’t on designated roadways you can turn it off and have the auto feature that turns it back on when you re-enter main paved roads
I personally do t think dealers should be able to turn off. Too many other idiots on cell phones being distracted. I’d hate to be the one with my sound cut and hit some idiot on their cell phone not looking or paying attention. IMHO
 
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The intent is more for blind people crossing roads as well as distracted pedestrians. Allowing distracted drivers at a red light to control it would never work in urban environments. I lay on my horn multiple times a week because people are texting at traffic lights. Ideally it should be a driver function so if you aren’t on designated roadways you can turn it off and have the auto feature that turns it back on when you re-enter main paved roads
I personally do t think dealers should be able to turn off. Too many other idiots on cell phones being distracted. I’d hate to be the one with my sound cut and hit some idiot on their cell phone not looking or paying attention. IMHO
For those whose brain is embedded in their cell phone the only real solution is a fast robotic arm that flies out and grabs the cell out of their grasp and flips it into the nearest storm drain. I doubt even the loudest horn will grab their attention. But you speak mostly of urban situations, I don't. I don't want my SM Scout for urban driving, I have my Toyotas for that; the RAV4's horn is wimpy, but the Tundra's will wake the dead. No, I want the quietest possible vehicle; and personal contol of any noisemakers it comes with -- like the big horn button in the middle of the steering wheel.
 
I don’t disagree but you and I seem to be the type that drive with focus and purpose. I’ve learned most don’t. I say urban but keep in mind I’m smack in the middle of Pennsylvania farm country so probably more urban than your location but still rural/suburban and WAY to many people with one focus-CELL PHONES and I just don’t want to be labeled/sentences as accidental vehicular homicide due to someone else’s lack of common sense.
I love the mechanical hand idea. That should be an option on the new scout 😂
 
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I think the (federally required) pedestrian noise should sound like an engine and be as quiet as legally possible. If the reason you have the noise is to let blind/inattentive people know there's a car operating nearby, why would you have it sound like anything else but a car??

I'd also like the option to automatically shut it off on my property. Allow the user to manually turn it off when on private property and have the car remember that so it happens automatically next time.

I've seen on the Ioniq 5 forum where someone rigged up a remote control button to turn it off and on. It turns out the sound had its own fuse, so setting that up was straightforward. I'd worry about forgetting to turn it back on, though.
 
The intent is more for blind people crossing roads as well as distracted pedestrians. Allowing distracted drivers at a red light to control it would never work in urban environments. I lay on my horn multiple times a week because people are texting at traffic lights. Ideally it should be a driver function so if you aren’t on designated roadways you can turn it off and have the auto feature that turns it back on when you re-enter main paved roads
I personally do t think dealers should be able to turn off. Too many other idiots on cell phones being distracted. I’d hate to be the one with my sound cut and hit some idiot on their cell phone not looking or paying attention. IMHO
You have your points, but I cannot recall the last time I encountered a blind person crossing a road. I'm sure it happens but are we to design everything to address what are statistical absurdities? A horn to refocus a distracted driver or pedestrian is essential, but it is not a constant "fake engine noise" which will not get their attention. As I travel it is very obvious that the convergence of the dark sky advocates and the efficiency of design of LEDs is coming together to significantly reduce light pollution while still maintaining adequate lighting for the purpose. Sound pollution is poised to be the next frontier of cleanup. Those of us with severe hearing loss are well aware that even our $8000 hearing aids are so overwhelmed with environmental sound that they often cannot bring us the spoken words we are trying to understand. As for designing to protect the ambulatory cell phone user, I doubt anything will help until the manufacturers use the built-in pedometers to shut them off when they sense walking motion. I have observed them fall off curbs, and walk into people and obstructions; the survival aspects of the Laws of Ecology will eventually kick in I suppose. We cannot design vehicles to avoid every human foible.
 
The podcast Twenty Thousand Hertz just released an episode about Auto Tone and the future of car sounds:

https://www.20k.org/episodes/autotone

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Been awhile since this thread had posts so ironically I have one. I met my daughter after work today and she got there 2 minutes before me and was grabbing stuff out of her car around the corner of the building where we met. I’m guessing I parked a bit over 50’ away. She said she heard the alien noice from my Accord hybrid and stopped to look to see if it was me. That said, again, for the love of God add a cool muffler sounding noise and not the alien noise. I hear it out of my car more now that I drive to work in the “city” and sadly I feel a bit self conscious over the noise.
A rough and tumble off road EV deserves (perhaps even DEMANDS) an appropriate safety noise.
 
Rivian's implementation (for reference) isn't terrible... Seems to be quieter than most, and makes the sound of an X-Wing fighter from star wars (closest thing I can think of). If you put it in PARK, the noise stops, so if I roll-up on someone to talk, I always need to remember to put it in park.

For the outdoors and off-road, perhaps the best solution is allowing for geofencing, so if you are not on asphalt on a marked road with a speed limit, it could automatically be kept in stealth mode.

I'm not a lawyer though, and that might require some legislation.
 
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I've always felt so-called "pedestrian noises" were dumb and intended to make EVs seem weird to normal people. They only work below 30 kph because above that speed the tires and air resistance make the vehicle inherently audible, so really we're only talking about something that works at very slow speed. In my opinion, if you're going that slowly the onus should be on the driver not to hit pedestrians. Forcing EVs to make artificial noise just offloads the burden of not being runover to the pedestrian and increases noise pollution. I think it should be the responsibility of the driver to not hit people, not the pedestrian to hear and avoid the vehicle. It's a very car-centric view of the world and I think it's dumb.

I don't mind Hyundai's implementation, or those of other EV makes but the way Honda and Toyota have implemented it on their hybrids is ridiculously loud and obnoxious. It's cartoonish even.
 
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When navigating a tricky trail through the woods, or up a rocky hillside I want to hear the crack of the tree's branch, the snap as the rocks shift, the crunch as metal hits whatever, NOT some manufactured sound that blots out one of my senses (hearing). And may I repeat, vehicles have long been known to wildlife watchers as effective blinds. In 1st or LL we creep the roads through the NWR with camera mounted to the doors, minimizing our human profile. Step out and there won't be a visible critter in 200m. Over the ICE years wildlife have become somewhat inured to the sound of our motors, and now the silence of EVs holds great promise to provide even better observation conditions -- except if the critters of the wild are accosted by a panoply of new sounds designed to alert humanoid life. I now anticipate the NWRs posting "No EV vehicles allowed" signs on their wildlife observation roads. And can we anticipate a reverse effect in National Parks where they have begging bears (donkeys, horses, goats, etc.)? Will the beggars learn to associate the EV noise like we hear the bells on an ice cream truck, and come running forth for handouts?

Some of the world is now recognizing the effects of rampant light pollution and is reacting with dark sky regulations and redesigning fixtures to focus light only where it is needed. We are already facing an epidemic of hearing loss particularly in young children because of all the introduced sounds in our environment. Sound pollution (even at easily tolerated levels) is robbing us of one of our senses. The introduction of any artificial sound must be scrutinized and evaluated for all impacts, both intended and unintended.
 
When navigating a tricky trail through the woods, or up a rocky hillside I want to hear the crack of the tree's branch, the snap as the rocks shift, the crunch as metal hits whatever, NOT some manufactured sound that blots out one of my senses (hearing). And may I repeat, vehicles have long been known to wildlife watchers as effective blinds. In 1st or LL we creep the roads through the NWR with camera mounted to the doors, minimizing our human profile. Step out and there won't be a visible critter in 200m. Over the ICE years wildlife have become somewhat inured to the sound of our motors, and now the silence of EVs holds great promise to provide even better observation conditions -- except if the critters of the wild are accosted by a panoply of new sounds designed to alert humanoid life. I now anticipate the NWRs posting "No EV vehicles allowed" signs on their wildlife observation roads. And can we anticipate a reverse effect in National Parks where they have begging bears (donkeys, horses, goats, etc.)? Will the beggars learn to associate the EV noise like we hear the bells on an ice cream truck, and come running forth for handouts?

Some of the world is now recognizing the effects of rampant light pollution and is reacting with dark sky regulations and redesigning fixtures to focus light only where it is needed. We are already facing an epidemic of hearing loss particularly in young children because of all the introduced sounds in our environment. Sound pollution (even at easily tolerated levels) is robbing us of one of our senses. The introduction of any artificial sound must be scrutinized and evaluated for all impacts, both intended and unintended.
I don’t disagree but I’m sure the noises being used are government mandated for safety so assuming it HAS to be done, I’m saying make it a more natural sound and not the weird alien sounds
 
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I don’t disagree but I’m sure the noises being used are government mandated for safety so assuming it HAS to be done, I’m saying make it a more natural sound and not the weird alien sounds
I believe there is room for this. Rivian uses bird sounds for it's locking and unlocking if I'm not mistaken. Maybe @R1TVT can confirm? Perhaps when the vehicle is moving Scout could make it sound like wind through leaves or a gentle stream or something? Something that would sound at home in a forest but out of place in a city.
 
Consider this. An EV might be required to make noise akinvto an idling engine when stopped a red light or stop sign BUT an ICE with auto stop start makes no noise when stopped and not idling. Dare we suggest that when off an ICE vehicle should have artifical sounds?

And can we choose our own sounds at some point, like the sounds of an off-cam 427 side oiler
 
Yes, Rivian uses bird-like chirps for door opening / closing locking, but they can change with updates. For Halloween for example, the car could make owl noises with that update, and also includes on-screen Zombies (instead of people) when humans are passing the car + orange / amber lighting effects. Pretty wild what you can do with little updates and SW based on the way the tech is implemented.

Here is the reg:

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) requires that hybrid and light electric vehicles (LEVs) with four wheels and a gross weight rating of 10,000 lbs or less make a sound when traveling at 19 mph or less. This requirement is part of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 141, also known as the "quiet vehicles" rule. The standard was established in December 2016 in response to the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act of 2010, which mandated that EVs make noise to help prevent pedestrian injuries. The NHTSA estimates that the rule could prevent 2,400 pedestrian injuries each year.


The artificial engine sound that EVs make must be at least 56 decibels (dBA) within 2 meters when the car is traveling at 12 mph or slower, and no more than 75 dBA. The sound increases when the car speeds up and decreases when it slows down to simulate the sound of an internal combustion engine (ICE) car. At higher speeds, tire and wind noise are usually the main sources of a vehicle's noise, so the sounds of EVs and ICE vehicles are similar.


In 2019, the NHTSA issued a notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) to amend FMVSS No. 141 to remove the numerical limit on compliant sounds. The NHTSA also loosened language in the rule that restricted sound variation between different makes, models, and trim levels
 
Here's the Halloween update from last Fall (just as an FYI about what SW can potentially unlock in terms of noises and features):
That's brilliant!! I love it!

I realize it's a law so automakers have no choice. Nice to see an effort to loosen it though. I think it's a dumb law that still puts the burden of not being run-over on the pedestrian instead of the driver where it belongs.