Mmmm…just a reminder…the original topic, to completely rephrase the thread title, was: “Look! This is why we’re so thankful that SM will be selling direct!”. Of course “Wow! EVs are expensive and why would anyone buy a car I don’t want!?” is always a popular topic too.
US Dealer Slaps $20,000 Markup On VW ID. Buzz
- Thread starter chucchinchilla
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1 - perhaps, but honestly - an ICE mini van would work just as well to this group, perhaps better. I went from an SUV to a mini-van, love the mini-van - especially for trips, but also for kid dumps at school.
2 - I would say this is a no-brainer, but a LOT of mini-van owners like to use them on trips. 240 mile range is virtually a tripless mini-van. As such they will be a swing and miss to these mini-van owners.
3 - true, but they ended up going too far away from the cool feel - Hard to say how much of this market just turned away at this point. I never owned a VW van, but I did own a bug based toy and on several occasions priced out a bug van. My wife was a bug owner as well. FWIW, I learned to wrench trying to keep mine running. My wife killed hers (due to lack of a clue to vehicle maintence, and her first husband gave her a Suburban to replace it - a more modern vehicle that you did not need to fill up the oil and check the gas. I also destroyed the motor on my bug, but then rebuilt it - also trashed the transmission 3 times. Got damn good at pulling that motor. I did check the oil religiously, so not sure why the bearing failed. Ended up having to replace the shaft and pistons before it was over.
4 - I never understand these people to be honest, but they carved the cute out of it. So a lot of this market will look elsewhere I suspect.
5 - sure, but the price will matter to small businesses. They priced themselves out of a lot of this market.
Yes, but I’m thinking there are fewer of those these days. The outrageous markups started during the COVID when there was a shortage of cars and still a lot of Ev enthusiasts looking for their first ev, and not many ev models. 2 or 3 years later, and they aren’t as much of a novelty and most of the serious EV enthusiast have satisfied their need. Add to that the fact that the ID buzz has been in the news for many years now so any freshness wore off a long time ago and I’m thinking (hoping) but there will be a fairly small number of people that are willing to pay a lot of money for it and dealers will have a very hard time finding buyers willing to pay a ridiculous markup.
I don't think the novelty is EV here, but the Buzz design which will stand out from the run of the mill CUV/SUV that is now the majority of the market. We have a multi-tier society where, unfortunately, many will pay extra to have some initial exclusivity.
It seems like the are just trickling out now, so contributing to dealer shenanigan's. If I visit the VW page, they still say "Coming Soon" for the Buzz, and I can build one in the configurator, but there is no "buy" button, or "send config to Dealer" button. Just print or Save. I configured a Base with a silver exterior and copper interior:
If I wanted one, I'd be waiting for wide availability, with no extra markups, but I have more patience, than money...
Second this sentiment. We’ve bought eight vehicles from Carvana for the service, 10-day no hassle return policy, and generous warranty program, but I think the top perk is NOT being in the room with a car dealership salesperson.
In the past, at a typical dealership, we’ve made a point to tell the salesperson that if they leave the room more than once, or more than ten minutes, we would be gone when they came back. And we once were challenged, and did. They chased us down in the parking lot as we drove away.
Give us an experience at least as good as the one offered by Carvana, please.
In the past, at a typical dealership, we’ve made a point to tell the salesperson that if they leave the room more than once, or more than ten minutes, we would be gone when they came back. And we once were challenged, and did. They chased us down in the parking lot as we drove away.
Give us an experience at least as good as the one offered by Carvana, please.
VW dealers providing fresh evidence why Scout skipping them is a great idea. And I don't think markups on ID Buzz will last, few families will want to deal with design cues like this -
"The Buzz perpetuates a maddening control that debuted on the VW ID 4: a driver’s-door gizmo that uses three buttons to control the four power windows. In pursuit of the imagined efficiency of one fewer pieces of plastic in the car, one button selects whether the other two control the front or rear windows. You have to find it and press it to adjust the rear windows. If you accidentally press it, then press one of the other switches, the rear window opens and closes when you want the front, or vice versa."
"The Buzz perpetuates a maddening control that debuted on the VW ID 4: a driver’s-door gizmo that uses three buttons to control the four power windows. In pursuit of the imagined efficiency of one fewer pieces of plastic in the car, one button selects whether the other two control the front or rear windows. You have to find it and press it to adjust the rear windows. If you accidentally press it, then press one of the other switches, the rear window opens and closes when you want the front, or vice versa."
Not that I'm supporting dealer practices per se. But whatever industry you work in, you are telling me that you aren't the lawyer that charges $500/hr just to write a letter, or the doctor that charges $10,000 just to admit someone to the ER, or the dentist that charges $1500 for cleanings, or the VET who charges $500 just to tell me why my cat is withdrawn, or the construction worker who want barrels of money to replace my windows on my house? No, that's not you. Everyone is on the up and up. But when a car salesman does his shady business tactics, out come the pitchforks. Noted.
Pretty much. I work for a builder and we are transparent on our design services and our profits. The problem with your argument is that the manufacturer sets an MSRP/recommended price. Presumably based on an industry average-no different than any other business with standard industry pricing and profit margins. To then mark up by $20K, which I assume is like 400-500% markups is scummy, no question about it. It’s not like you HAVE to buy it but it gives a bad name to the industry. Then to play the “let me talk to my manager” game is insulting to both sides. If I had to ask my boss/owner every time a design question comes up I’d personally be pissed as I’m sure the client would be as well. This is the negative image so many of us feel about dealers and justifiably so-IMO
Don’t get me wrong. I think realtors play the game as do specialized industry people and it’s not right. But if you have something unique-product or service then push the envelope. The market will determine what is tolerable and what isn’t but still isn’t right. I always believed in the old say
“Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered”
And that's my point. Everyone can charge what they want, and there is no MSRP to compare it to. And while I think the "dealer added markup" is complete BS, I can say that when I was buying a used car for my son a few months ago, and I contacted numerous dealers, with most I simply texted them for pricing, etc. I even threw them offers via text. They either simply told me no, or counter offered me with a price. Simple. I even got OTD pricing and it was simple. And......I did it without leaving my living room. Not hard at all. Now, if you choose to sit in their office with them and play the game, then that is on you. I have simply figured out a way to get around it.
And back to price gouging. What about real estate agents and their fees? How about what and Escrow office charges for what they do? Have you looked at the fees and charges associated with items when buying a house? Crazy. But it IS what it IS. I negotiated with a Real Estate agent over her commission fee. I had done all the work of looking at houses and such. All she did was fill out the forms, and then go one time to the sellers office. For that, she wanted to get paid $13,000 dollars. That is crazy money for 2 hours work.
I agree but those fees are still considered “industry standards” with realtor fees being 5-6% depending new/used houses. It’s an established practice/standard that people know they have to pay.
To the argument-when the broncos first came out people that ordered them at MSRp then showed up to purchase and dealers surprised them with $5-$15K mark-ups you can’t say that isn’t shady.
I’m in the building industry and it kills me that on a new $500K house the realtor is generally making the same amount of money as the builder is. And to your point-they do basically nothing-but it’s industry standards. They don’t do the purchasing, manage the client, carry the liability and warranty yet they make damn near the same. Again-I’m not knocking any industry that has an excepted standard but to throw mark ups beyond reason is crummy and shame on the people that pay that. Especially the VW bus after VW only stated that they hoped their dealers would not take to ADM fees. Every business has to make a profit and pay staff but be professional. The best thing that has happened post pandemic, at least here in PA is many dealers are only carrying 10-15% of the inventory they used to carry. So now you take it at MSRP or you order and wait-at MSRP. No negotiating-and I’m cool with that. It’s the 400% mark ups that I call out as wrong.
Years ago I friend, similar to what you do. He’d research 8-10 dealers from home. He’d then send an email to all those dealers, not BCC either so each dealer knew who their competition was. He’d list all his wants/features and top 3 color choices in order to then he put the price he wanted OR closest offer price from dealer. Gave them two days and said lowest price in writing with serial # wins. Never failed him. I liked that way too but that was for used cars.
Commodity items are always prone to supply demand so unfortunately negotiations will always occur on those items, including cars/vehicles
Sounds like you have more reasonable dealers in your area. When I tried to buy a new car a while ago, I also contacted numerous dealers. I used the "get an instant quote" on websites, I texted, I called, I emailed. The response from all the dealers (from different brands) was the same: "come on down and let's talk!". Not a single one was willing to do anything at all online, except invite me down for a "great deal". When I finally decided to get an Ioniq 5, I went to the dealership and the lease deal they quoted me was enough to get a MB EQS! (I have outstanding credit, so that wasn't the problem.) Not only that, the first sheet of paper they put in front of me had math errors in their favor - the final numbers should have been a touch lower. When I pointed it out, the "corrected" version had all new numbers with an even worse deal.
Toyota also offers pure web based buying system called Smart Path. You can choose a Smart Path dealer, check inventory, and the price is the price. You can arrange your trade in, apply for financing etc. My sister bought her Camry this way. I found the vehicle she wanted at a nearby dealer. It showed the transit time to delivery for the car she wanted. You can also browse real time dealer inventory. Is was terribly easy.
I agree. Another dealer trick here is “sure, we’ve got what you want” and suddenly, when you’re there in person, the car from their website has mysteriously been sold and their inventory wasn’t updated, oh no, but here are some pieces of crap that aren’t what you want that they need to move off of the lot followed by a zillion high-pressure e-mails, texts, and phone calls. That’s all cool, right? Not invasive?
I’ve never observed anyone in any other industry outside of my professional life acting with the desperation and aggression of automotive salespeople (save perhaps pharmacies chasing me to fill my specialty drug prescription with their pharmacy, not those other pharmacies that rub the pills under their arms before filling the bottles, judging by the way they compete with each other for that sweet sweet reimbursement money).
And interestingly, the Toyota SmartPath dealership closest to me is the most vile, untrustworthy, sleazy place straight out of the playbook for This Is Why People Hate Car Dealers. I don’t trust that it would be a painless process with them.
My experience with the Toyota dealership here a few years back was to literally be surrounded by three salespeople immediately after our test drive, while they tried to browbeat us into buying the car.
I believe it. And I’m gonna backtrack and say that it’s not so much that I want to invalidate the good experiences that people have when buying cars as I want to validate the bad experiences. Both can be true.
As I understand it South Carolina law currently bans direct car sales. (ref. https://www.statehousereport.com/20...eak-direct-car-sale-ban-stalls-at-statehouse/) Did I miss something elsewhere in the forums about this? I know SM vision is for direct sales so maybe they will have some influence on our state government. I know the SC governor and my local state representative were at the reveal presentation. For you other South Carolinians out there, we need to start flooding our state lawmakers to update our laws. Buying direct is a major reason I reserved my next Scout. As for dealerships, I just cannot sympathize as most have given car dealers a bad name.
Worst case maybe they go the direction Acura announced where you do everything on line then go to the dealer and pick it up and at least cut out the whole buying process through crummy sales people. Acura is doing that with the new ZDX EV so they figured out a mid level way to knock out half of the undesirable process we all despise.
As I’ve said I plan to do delivery at the SM facility in SC so long as I can get that done with SM.
As I’ve said I plan to do delivery at the SM facility in SC so long as I can get that done with SM.
I also plan to take delivery at the SM facility in SC. Let's hope things get worked out by then.
I wouldn't hold your breath. Tesla still can't sell in SC, after many years...
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