Is EV demand really tanking?

[JohnBills]

Lots of headlines saying EV demand has plummeted but here's some data from the S&P Global, who doesn't have a stake in the EV game. This data shows that registration for many non-Tesla EVs are increasing and the stories about EVs "piling up" on dealer lots seem to be mostly a Ford problem. In talking to my friends in the dealership space, some of them are saying Ford dealers are usually more resistant to sell EVs and so their inability to sell them is becoming self-fulfilling. What do you think of these numbers? And why do you think there is so much Mach-E inventory?

 

[R1TVT]

Well considering the % of EV retail auto sales continues to climb YoY according to the most credible sources and our government, I'm thinking those with alternate ICE agendas would like everyone to believe that. Rate of adoption does have significant dependencies on gas prices, vehicle prices, interest rates, charging infrastructure, warranty, other economic factors, etc etc etc

 

[Bodie]

I think inventory of all vehicles is stacking up (back to pre-pandemic norm). Dealer lots that were empty 2 years ago have cars again. Some is supply catching up, some is higher interest rates/economic cool down. Don’t know what inventory charts of non-EVs look like but may be similar.
Also potentially hurting EV sales is low gas prices. I think most EVs are more expensive up front than a comparable ICE and cheap gas doesn’t help sell a more expensive EV to most folks who don’t do all the math or realize that gas is unusually cheap right now.

 

[JohnBills]

I think inventory of all vehicles is stacking up (back to pre-pandemic norm). Dealer lots that were empty 2 years ago have cars again. Some is supply catching up, some is higher interest rates/economic cool down. Don’t know what inventory charts of non-EVs look but may be similar.
Also potentially hurting EV sales is low gas prices. I think most EVs are more expensive up front than a comparable ICE and cheap gas doesn’t help sell a more expensive EV to most folks who don’t do all the math or realize that gas is unusually cheap right now.

Very true. People are definitely buying fewer vehicles overall because of higher interest rates and the ability for OEMs to meet demand once again.

 

[Mousehunter]

I suspect it is a few things - I don't think car sales in general is booming right now. Add to that a lot of the new EV's to hit the market since covid have not gotten stellar reviews either.

 

[J Alynn]

The Honda Accord Hybrid I just picked up I got for roughly $2200 off MSRP and they had to trade a like vehicle to get my unicorn color combination. My trade was a hair low but as just noted, with higher interest rates sales are slowing and I’m sure the market for an Acura TLX type S that gets 20mpg (if I baby it) probably isn’t on the top of a lot of buyers wish list right now. Granted I bought from a family member but I was surprised by the price. Got it Thursday night and they had 30 sales /deliveries alone-end of month/end of year but damn-30 deliveries in one day and my cousin said a lot of them were hybrid accords. It’s a transition that will happen slowly but slow and steady ultimately wins the race

 

[TAStrock]

Lots of headlines saying EV demand has plummeted but here's some data from the S&P Global, who doesn't have a stake in the EV game. This data shows that registration for many non-Tesla EVs are increasing and the stories about EVs "piling up" on dealer lots seem to be mostly a Ford problem. In talking to my friends in the dealership space, some of them are saying Ford dealers are usually more resistant to sell EVs and so their inability to sell them is becoming self-fulfilling. What do you think of these numbers? And why do you think there is so much Mach-E inventory?

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I’m not a fan of them but , not for the sake of progress though. Living in NE Indiana where we do get some snow I’d hate the thought of relying on the EV to keep you warm if stranded long. And to add to it hearing news related articles saying these companies are losing big profits from this is a concern too.

 

[R1TVT]

As someone with an EV in the NE I'm kind of baffled by the comment about being stranded in an EV vs as an ICE. If you run out of gas, you have no heat, if you run out of electrons you have no heat. There is no difference.

One thing that is nice about my truck is that i can warm the cabin remotely on a cold day much, much faster than I could have in my old ICE truck

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

As someone with an EV in the NE I'm kind of baffled by the comment about being stranded in an EV vs as an ICE. If you run out of gas, you have no heat, if you run out of electrons you have no heat. There is no difference.

One thing that is nice about my truck is that i can warm the cabin remotely on a cold day much, much faster than I could have in my old ICE truck

I think a big part of it is a combination of something new and today's world, where quite a bit of misinformation is floating out there. For most of us who have never owned an EV, there are lots of questions or assumptions and unknowns. For those that have owned them, I think a lot of those questions are answered and adjustments made as to how you handle owning an EV versus your ICE vehicles. I will likely make my next company vehicle an EV as I think it will be good for me to understand what living with an EV is like. Yes, I logically have come around to the idea that really, I am still putting some kind of "fuel" in the vehicle and yes, that infrastructure outside of my house is still rapidly developing. Since my household has two cars, I can keep one ICE family road trip vehicle for now. But for our second vehicle that spends the majority of its time driving locally (even up to 100 miles round trip) an EV makes perfect sense.

Jamie

 

[JohnBills]

I think a big part of it is a combination of something new and today's world

I think this is a good summary statement.

 

[RBar]

I think a big part of it is a combination of something new and today's world, where quite a bit of misinformation is floating out there. For most of us who have never owned an EV, there are lots of questions or assumptions and unknowns. For those that have owned them, I think a lot of those questions are answered and adjustments made as to how you handle owning an EV versus your ICE vehicles. I will likely make my next company vehicle an EV as I think it will be good for me to understand what living with an EV is like. Yes, I logically have come around to the idea that really, I am still putting some kind of "fuel" in the vehicle and yes, that infrastructure outside of my house is still rapidly developing. Since my household has two cars, I can keep one ICE family road trip vehicle for now. But for our second vehicle that spends the majority of its time driving locally (even up to 100 miles round trip) an EV makes perfect sense.

Jamie

I have to agree Jamie, I just find it more conferring to put a “fuel” in a vehicle even if I’m not at a gas station or EV charger.
It would be interesting to see a work around to this maybe similar to what Edison motors did with their electric semi truck “ topsy”. It has electoric motors powered by a diesel generator, this way you could always be able to power the motors as long as you had diesel.
This could make it so the EV scouts could do like the old and just go with no worries.

 

[R1TVT]

Owning an EV and an ICE vehicle together is exactly what we did, and makes good sense given the current infrastructure. Even with an EV and an ICE SUV in my household, I looked forward to my first long runs from the NE to the mid-Atlantic, and I have made runs like that a half dozen times or so, in my R1T. If you plan to run your battery down to 20% around the same time you will need your first meal, that is usually a 3.5 to 4 hour trip, which is perfect for a food stop (provided you can located a DCFC near food). Conveniently, most are located nears malls or restaurants FWIW.

With 300 miles of range, you never really run 300 miles straight down to a zero% SOC - it's just not efficient from a timing perspective. The best charging curve is between 20% and 80%, so if you think about it (and when you are on a long road trip) the ONLY reason to sit at a DCFC is to reach the next DCFC with a little buffer around 20% SOC. The last stop needs to leave you with enough juice to cruise around your destination (and to get back to a DCFC if your destination does not have one). That requires some planning sometimes, and that is probably the biggest difference between an EV and an ICE vehicle.

Of course is you are using the vehicle locally, none of this matters, and there aren't any planning concerns. It all is just easier!~

 

[TAStrock]

I understand that a lot of having the Ev revolves around the planning of where charging stations are in your travels as they are still being set up. The concerned of being stranded in an Ev as compared to an Ice is still that, a concern. If you run out of gas and are stranded or while stranded more can be retrieved. How does that work with the EV?

**Just asking questions not trying to start harsh debates.**

 

[R1TVT]

You would either get a tow or you get a charge (from something like Roadie for example, through roadside assistance). I have never run out of gas or electrons, so I am not speaking from first hand experience.

 

[LastDayScout]

I’m not a fan of them but , not for the sake of progress though. Living in NE Indiana where we do get some snow I’d hate the thought of relying on the EV to keep you warm if stranded long. And to add to it hearing news related articles saying these companies are losing big profits from this is a concern too.

An EV, especially with a heat pump, is awesome when it comes to heat. I also second the thought that running out of gas or electrons amounts to the same thing.

 

[J Alynn]

I think Scout motors needs to build a few pick-up retrieval vehicles with a big generator in the back to charge stranded EV’s on off-road locations. Great driver support and advertising for SM

 

[JohnBills]

Ford had a good month after having Mach-E woes. https://electrek.co/2023/12/04/ford-sets-ev-sales-record-nov-lightning-becomes-best-seller/

 

[Harris005]

Owning an EV and an ICE vehicle together is exactly what we did, and makes good sense given the current infrastructure. Even with an EV and an ICE SUV in my household, I looked forward to my first long runs from the NE to the mid-Atlantic, and I have made runs like that a half dozen times or so, in my R1T. If you plan to run your battery down to 20% around the same time you will need your first meal, that is usually a 3.5 to 4 hour trip, which is perfect for a food stop (provided you can located a DCFC near food). Conveniently, most are located nears malls or restaurants FWIW.

With 300 miles of range, you never really run 300 miles straight down to a zero% SOC - it's just not efficient from a timing perspective. The best charging curve is between 20% and 80%, so if you think about it (and when you are on a long road trip) the ONLY reason to sit at a DCFC is to reach the next DCFC with a little buffer around 20% SOC. The last stop needs to leave you with enough juice to cruise around your destination (and to get back to a DCFC if your destination does not have one). That requires some planning sometimes, and that is probably the biggest difference between an EV and an ICE vehicle.

Of course is you are using the vehicle locally, none of this matters, and there aren't any planning concerns. It all is just easier!~

I have always wondered why a few of the national restaurant chains don't take the approach of installing rapid charging stations at all of their restaurants. Then within their app, allow the user to reserve time slots for charging. Once they advertised it, I would think they would get a steady flow of customers

 

[R1TVT]

That will happen (eventually). Right now, the best open DCFC chargers are often located at malls (with restaurants nearby) or in Walmart parking lots (that tend to be near strip malls with restaurants). EA has a lot of chargers at Walmarts and WaWa's. I still have not entered a Walmart in 50+ years on planet earth, despite having charged in their lots more than 20 times. I can't bring myself to go in there.

 

[Bodie]

I still have not entered a Walmart in 50+ years on planet earth, despite having charged in their lots more than 20 times. I can't bring myself to go in there.

Why not? I love Walmart. Almost always the best price and good selection of oil, filters and other auto stuff. Park in the back by the auto center and check out at the auto service desk - you're in and out quick. You don't even have to be buying auto stuff.