CR New Car Brands Reliability / Scout Projected Reliability?

[eddiet1212]

How will Scout motors ensure a future of high reliabilty?

ie higher than rivals like Rivian...

See Rivian's average predicted reliability rank on the CR 2025 Most Reliable New Car Brands Reliability list.

Toyota no longer most reliable brand, says Consumer Reports

Subaru climbs to the top for the first time, while American brands rank no better than average.

www.thecarconnection.com

 

[Scoutsie]

Granted, I have been a Consumer Reports subscriber off and on for many years, and I can say with confidence as a Toyota owner that they are not wrong about the reliability of a Toyota, but this data is only as good as what their members provide. It sounds great to say “calculating” and “ratings” in the same sentence except all that they’re doing is reporting on what some of their subscribers think. Their sample size is the subscribers who voluntarily submit the annual user survey. That’s a subsection of whatever is the demographic of the average Consumer Reports subscriber, which might not be the same demographic of the average Insert Auto Maker Here customer. They don’t take advertiser dollars, but this is still subjective and biased. How heavily you want to weigh it against other opinions is up to you. I’d rather hear what real people have to say over anonymous someones. Take this with a grain of salt.

That said, I do hope that Scout does not end up at the bottom of this or any other list regarding things like reliability and safety.

 

[R1TVT]

I would echo that 100% - And as a counterpoint, Rivian has the HIGHEST satisfaction score below, with the highest percentage of respondents also indicating that they would buy a Rivian again.

In terms of reviews, and FWIW, I find Edmunds to be by far the most accurate and unbiased source. YMMV.

 

[CarTechGeek]

In terms of reviews, and FWIW, I find Edmunds to be by far the most accurate and unbiased source. YMMV.

I definitely prefer Consumer Reports for car reviews. I find the regular car media work too hard at not biting the hand that feeds them. They have relationships with car manufacturers as a source of demo cars, advertising, and review getaways to resorts.

CR doesn't advertise, and only reviews the cars they buy the same way regular consumers do, don't accept free resort "review" trips from manufactures. So I find they don't pull punches, and IMO clearly has less bias because they are NOT depending on manufacturers for cars/advertising/trips.

I also find CR reviews are more consistent, they have a complete package of testing they do for all their cars, while other tend to be more off the cuff. Also they tend to be more rigorous about the engineering of their tests. While others will do some fuel economy testing, they just rely on fuel refills. CR goes and extra step and and attach inline fuel meters to precisely measure fuel used.

 

[LastDayScout]

I would echo that 100% - And as a counterpoint, Rivian has the HIGHEST satisfaction score below, with the highest percentage of respondents also indicating that they would buy a Rivian again.

In terms of reviews, and FWIW, I find Edmunds to be by far the most accurate and unbiased source. YMMV.


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I agree that I put more credence in Edmunds than CR.

 

[R1TVT]

I agree that I put more credence in Edmunds than CR.

Agreed - By far and away the least-biased source I can find for reviews, AND they do a phenomenal job with EV reviews and testing, in particular. Their methodology is second to none, but I also love that they have made interpreting their reports easy and their scoring methodology is simple, standardized and spot-on (at least in terms of what I am seeing in my own vehicles).

Good link: https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/how-we-test-cars-and-trucks.html

 

[KarlT]

Interesting lack of correlation between reliability and satisfaction

 

[CarTechGeek]

Interesting lack of correlation between reliability and satisfaction

It's often the case for specialty/unique vehicles. Jeep Wrangler for instance is consistently low reliability (and everything else) and scores high on satisfaction. Most early EVs were kind of like that as well.

 

[TreeKiller]

It's often the case for specialty/unique vehicles. Jeep Wrangler for instance is consistently low reliability (and everything else) and scores high on satisfaction. Most early EVs were kind of like that as well.

Do EV's, generally speaking, hold their value as well as a Jeep Wrangler? I know the Leaf is one of the most quickly depreciating vehicles on the road, but I don't know about any of the other EVs that have been around long enough to have been able to determine how well they hold value.

 

[TreeKiller]

Where do EV's typically have reliability issues? Part of the whole mantra behind EVs in general has always been that there are fewer moving parts, therefore there is less that could go wrong. But you of course have added electronic complexity versus ICE vehicles.

My only EV experience thus far other than an MB loaner EQS 580 SUV is in my business partner's Fisker Ocean One which has been super fun to drive, but had a lot of problems that started coming to the surface immediately after he took delivery.

 

[LastDayScout]

Where do EV's typically have reliability issues? Part of the whole mantra behind EVs in general has always been that there are fewer moving parts, therefore there is less that could go wrong. But you of course have added electronic complexity versus ICE vehicles.

My only EV experience thus far other than an MB loaner EQS 580 SUV is in my business partner's Fisker Ocean One which has been super fun to drive, but had a lot of problems that started coming to the surface immediately after he took delivery.

My previous 2 and current EV have had zero EV related issues. Only issues have been any vehicle issues like cracked glass.

 

[CarTechGeek]

Do EV's, generally speaking, hold their value as well as a Jeep Wrangler? I know the Leaf is one of the most quickly depreciating vehicles on the road, but I don't know about any of the other EVs that have been around long enough to have been able to determine how well they hold value.

Resale value of EVs vary just like ICE vehicles vary.

Rebates can make EV resale appear worse because they get tagged as selling for MSRP, when really it's more like $7500 lower than that, so they appear to have an extra $7500 of depreciation that isn't really there.

Leaf is one of the worse depreciators because, they didn't liquid cool batteries and early version batteries degraded fast. Even if later version had better chemistry that were more heat resistant, they will always be somewhat penalized for the lack of liquid cooling.

 

[Scoutsie]

During the pandemic, my 2015 Prius was suddenly worth like twice as much as it was valued during my divorce proceedings because of the supply chain shortage. It’s not worth as much, but it’s not horrible. It helps that it’s still a car that people like to buy used.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I would point out that while we are using some of Rivian's software and zonal architecture to support it, the rest of our vehicle is our own design and built in our own factory. These are two separate vehicles and brands.

 

[J Alynn]

Granted, I have been a Consumer Reports subscriber off and on for many years, and I can say with confidence as a Toyota owner that they are not wrong about the reliability of a Toyota, but this data is only as good as what their members provide. It sounds great to say “calculating” and “ratings” in the same sentence except all that they’re doing is reporting on what some of their subscribers think. Their sample size is the subscribers who voluntarily submit the annual user survey. That’s a subsection of whatever is the demographic of the average Consumer Reports subscriber, which might not be the same demographic of the average Insert Auto Maker Here customer. They don’t take advertiser dollars, but this is still subjective and biased. How heavily you want to weigh it against other opinions is up to you. I’d rather hear what real people have to say over anonymous someones. Take this with a grain of salt.

That said, I do hope that Scout does not end up at the bottom of this or any other list regarding things like reliability and safety.

During the pandemic, my 2015 Prius was suddenly worth like twice as much as it was valued during my divorce proceedings because of the supply chain shortage. It’s not worth as much, but it’s not horrible. It helps that it’s still a car that people like to buy used.

I’ve always struggled with these based on perception bias. If I buy an Acura I believe I’ve bought a luxury-ish vehicle so therefore I believe it should be perfect (because commercials/media tell me this). So any issue become “major, hence if I buy a basic Chevy or Kia and I do t have anything catastrophic happen I accept the little issues because I am told it’s a basic car and I expect it not to be perfect so I don’t complain about the same things that the irate Acura buyer loses their $hit over.
Sure, they are all legitimate issues but I think they aren’t reported on the low end side and over reported on the high end side. It comes down to expectations.

 

[Chaz26]

Where do EV's typically have reliability issues? Part of the whole mantra behind EVs in general has always been that there are fewer moving parts, therefore there is less that could go wrong. But you of course have added electronic complexity versus ICE vehicles.

My only EV experience thus far other than an MB loaner EQS 580 SUV is in my business partner's Fisker Ocean One which has been super fun to drive, but had a lot of problems that started coming to the surface immediately after he took delivery.

I have had no issues with my EV (Tesla Model 3) for the last 2 1/2 years I have had it. I am around 45,000 miles and other than a tire change, I have had to do nothing with it. I think the general difference between EVs and ICE, is that an ICE car can break down due to a failure of a number of parts but unless it's something major, it can be fixed relatively cheaply and quickly. With EVs, if they break down, it tends to be the battery so it is a longer and more expensive failure. Of course, everything is under warranty for 100,000 miles or more and several years anyways, so if something happens within the first few years of ownership it should be a free fix. Hopefully by the time these vehicles are 6+ years old, if owners are keeping them, the cost of batteries and items should have come down in price, and maybe even improved packs and range if needed. But, in theory, most should be good for 300,000 or more miles.

 

[R1TVT]

Where do EV's typically have reliability issues? Part of the whole mantra behind EVs in general has always been that there are fewer moving parts, therefore there is less that could go wrong. But you of course have added electronic complexity versus ICE vehicles.

From my experience "reliability" in a survey is a very big bucket to throw a whole bunch of complaints into. EV's are inherently more reliable mechanically, since there is less that can go wrong, and there is less to service.

However, since many of the EV's (my own included) are still relatively new to the market, or might be first model years, there may be longer service times if/when something does go wrong... This perceptions bias around "reliability" scores might have very little do to with the vehicles reliability, and more to do with parts availability, number of service centers, how long it takes to get service compared to a less complex and more basic ICE car that the owner might have been coming from, etc.

I think there has also been a shortage of talented labor availability and techs since the pandemic.

 

[dleepnw]

I would echo that 100% - And as a counterpoint, Rivian has the HIGHEST satisfaction score below, with the highest percentage of respondents also indicating that they would buy a Rivian again.

In terms of reviews, and FWIW, I find Edmunds to be by far the most accurate and unbiased source. YMMV.


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I own a Rivian and I have some insight into this seemingly contradictory report from CR. How can Rivian have both the lowest predicted reliability and the highest owner satisfaction score?

Pretty simple actually, they make incredible vehicles.

Its a new manufacturer so issues for a new vehicle are expected but the vehicles are so incredible, owners don't care. Or least don't care enough that is makes the ownership experience negative. The minor problems and long service wait times do not dissatisfy us from enjoying the overall kick-ass vehicle we have.
Of course I hope Scout can have a better reliability score but if they make incredible vehicles, it won't matter.

 

[R1TVT]

Smaller sample sizes with new vehicles, with new owners that have seemingly bigger mouths when things go sideways. LOL.

 

[dleepnw]

Smaller sample sizes with new vehicles, with new owners that have seemingly bigger mouths when things go sideways. LOL.

Yeah, would definitely help to know what data they have, how they gathered the data, what questions they asked, is it statistically significant, etc. But if were going to accept the "good" report we have to also accept the "bad" one.