Rivian MTGarage article in latest Motortrend

[Carl_Mary]

There is an interesting article in the MT Garage section of the latest Motrotrend magazine (February 2023). This is the section where Motortrend employees have a vehicle for a year and report on performance/issues, etc.

Scott Evans took the Rivian R1T on a camping trip, 218 miles round trip and with the Rivian 314 mile range should be doable, however,

1) There was a mountain to climb. The first 76 miles consumed 65 miles of range. The next 33 miles climbing the mountain used 74 miles of range. The 109 miles to the campground used 139 miles of range
2) Four nights of cold weather reduced the range 119 miles. The battery went from 53 % to 12 % while the truck sat there (not moving) for 4 nights. Rivian cited the need to keep certain computers powered and ready so the driver can get in a go instead of waiting for the computers to boot up.

When ready to head home, the R1T had 34 miles of range left. The nearest charger was 17 miles away. They actually drove to the a fast charger 31 miles away and thanks to mostly downhill and regenerative braking arrived with 46 miles of range and the battery at 16 %.

This was very eye-opening to me. I knew uphill would kill range, but never expected the huge drain while the truck just sat in the campground.

Since Mary and I traveling the United States extensively with our Scout, this article was very intriguing to me and clearly demonstrates the limitations of EVs TODAY.

Here is too hoping things improve in the next 4 years and Scout leads the way of these improvements.

 

[Rustic_father]

I would assume that those people didn't just let the rivian sit there for 4 days and didn't do anything with it. I'm going to assume that they ran the heater on occasion or they plugged in a heater into the 110v outlet in the bed of the truck to have heat. Or they ran other electric devices off of the main vehicle's batteries. There is no reason that an EV parked would lose 35% over 4 days just to keep the computer on. there has to be something else going on.

 

[Carl_Mary]

The author makes no mention of using the truck power for anything while at the campground, so I assume they did not do anything with the truck while there.

Quoting the author, "My bigger worry was losing range while we slept, as we've noticed the R1T sheds a couple of miles overnight, even in warm weather. But EVs lose more range in the cold."

He also mentions a software update was installed including new code that will reduce phantom power drain by 15%.

I wonder if the Rivian has a battery warming function, since lithium batteries cannot be charged when they are 32F or below and cannot be discharged below 17F.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

The author makes no mention of using the truck power for anything while at the campground, so I assume they did not do anything with the truck while there.

Quoting the author, "My bigger worry was losing range while we slept, as we've noticed the R1T sheds a couple of miles overnight, even in warm weather. But EVs lose more range in the cold."

He also mentions a software update was installed including new code that will reduce phantom power drain by 15%.

I wonder if the Rivian has a battery warming function, since lithium batteries cannot be charged when they are 32F or below and cannot be discharged below 17F.

I can't speak to the Rivian product specifically, but EVs in general don't lose anywhere near that much when parked. So considering the software update, maybe there was something causing that issue.

You *can* charge EV batteries when it is colder outside, however they will charge at a slower rate (one study said roughly 30% slower below freezing). As a workaround some newer EV models have a preheat system that warms the batteries above freezing to speed things up. Likewise they can be discharged and function below 0. Range obviously goes down at sub-zero temperatures, but the vehicle still functions.

There is a lot that we are all learning during this transition.

 

[R1TVT]

I have had my R1T since last May and live in the Northeast. Given that I enjoy year-round outdoor activities, which include driving into the mountains in sub freezing temps, in snow, i have been very mindful of the planning involved (and the factors that can increase or decrease range). There are many factors. Wheel size, tires, temp, wind, battery state, cargo, precipitation, drive mode, etc. To their credit, Rivian has done a really amazing job with SW updates, and we just rec'd a new update that increases efficiency and added a snow-mode drive capability. There are also things you can do when you are looking to conserve energy and reduce possible drain. One of those things Rivian advised in their release notes (for example) was disabling the gear guard feature which covers the vehicle from all angles with recorded camera footage. There's a learning curve, but the good news is that EV's has been around for many years, and the SW improvements to go along with the HW are coming at a fast and furious pace... My biggest take away from my winter driving (on 20's with Nokian Hakka LT3's) is that it never hurts to stop to top off and charge for a few minutes to add spare capacity en route to a destination that is new - particularly if you are worried about charging infrastructure. This is a trade-off that comes with the unreal driving experience of having such a capable EV truck. I'm sure that Scout will take some of these learnings from others and create a truck this is high quality, fun to drive on and off-road and raises the bar. I'm looking forward to seeing this progression.

 

[J Alynn]

I have had my R1T since last May and live in the Northeast. Given that I enjoy year-round outdoor activities, which include driving into the mountains in sub freezing temps, in snow, i have been very mindful of the planning involved (and the factors that can increase or decrease range). There are many factors. Wheel size, tires, temp, wind, battery state, cargo, precipitation, drive mode, etc. To their credit, Rivian has done a really amazing job with SW updates, and we just rec'd a new update that increases efficiency and added a snow-mode drive capability. There are also things you can do when you are looking to conserve energy and reduce possible drain. One of those things Rivian advised in their release notes (for example) was disabling the gear guard feature which covers the vehicle from all angles with recorded camera footage. There's a learning curve, but the good news is that EV's has been around for many years, and the SW improvements to go along with the HW are coming at a fast and furious pace... My biggest take away from my winter driving (on 20's with Noakian Hakka LT3's) is that it never hurts to stop to top off and charge for a few minutes to add spare capacity en route to a destination that is new - particularly if you are worried about charging infrastructure. This is a trade-off that comes with the unreal driving experience of having such a capable EV truck. I'm sure that Scout will take some of these learnings from others and create a truck this is high quality, fun to drive on and off-road and raises the bar. I'm looking forward to seeing this progression.

New to EV’s. What is SW and HW. Sorry I’m naive

 

[IdahoJOAT]

New to EV’s. What is SW and HW. Sorry I’m naive

Software and Hardware.

 

[IdahoJOAT]

This is what got me excited and on a different mindframe in regards to EVs: I watched the Tesla Semi presentation.

Range anxiety is a VERY real concern for trucking, and Musk's response was along these lines:

85% of trucking routes are regional routes, under 500 miles in a day. With a traditional semi, it goes to a yard and picks up a trailer, or has one already, then goes to another location to pick up part of their load, this takes at least 30 minutes. Then to go to another location and either drop off or pick up more, this takes at least another 30 minutes.. Then another, and another. In the middle of this they then go to the gas station and fill up. This takes... at least 30 minutes.
Now imagine, that instead of having to take that time to fill up... at every single stop along the way, as soon as the wheel stop, they're "fueling up".

This is the change in thinking we as a country need to have in order to make the EV transition. It's no longer, "I'm going to go 500 miles and fill up." It's got to transition to, "I'm going to go 250 miles and have a spot of lunch, and charge while I do so. I'm going to stop at a rest area and charge while I do so."

That and electric roadways.

 

[Chris@ScoutMotors]

I have had my R1T since last May and live in the Northeast. Given that I enjoy year-round outdoor activities, which include driving into the mountains in sub freezing temps, in snow, i have been very mindful of the planning involved (and the factors that can increase or decrease range). There are many factors. Wheel size, tires, temp, wind, battery state, cargo, precipitation, drive mode, etc. To their credit, Rivian has done a really amazing job with SW updates, and we just rec'd a new update that increases efficiency and added a snow-mode drive capability. There are also things you can do when you are looking to conserve energy and reduce possible drain. One of those things Rivian advised in their release notes (for example) was disabling the gear guard feature which covers the vehicle from all angles with recorded camera footage. There's a learning curve, but the good news is that EV's has been around for many years, and the SW improvements to go along with the HW are coming at a fast and furious pace... My biggest take away from my winter driving (on 20's with Nokian Hakka LT3's) is that it never hurts to stop to top off and charge for a few minutes to add spare capacity en route to a destination that is new - particularly if you are worried about charging infrastructure. This is a trade-off that comes with the unreal driving experience of having such a capable EV truck. I'm sure that Scout will take some of these learnings from others and create a truck this is high quality, fun to drive on and off-road and raises the bar. I'm looking forward to seeing this progression.

Welcome to the community! Stoked to see another Rivian owner on here, and would love to hear some feedback from a current EV truck owner on features that are helpful, practical, nice to have, wish you had, and maybe could do without!

 

[R1TVT]

FWIW, and perhaps this is the ironic part of owning an "adventure vehicle" as Rivian has called it, the Adventure destinations I want to take my R1T to are the destinations that require the most advanced planning (due to lack of DCFC infrastructure). I know this will improve over time and as Rivian continues to roll out its own "RAN" network (Rivian Adventure Network). The flip-side is that there is no range anxiety for me in most cases or as a daily driver. 300 miles of range hit the sweet spot. Also, the charging curve is best from 20-80% of the battery capacity... So, stopping on a road trip for a break around meals where there are chargers is also the jam. You don't want to sit around waiting for your truck to go from 80-100% when you are on the road. That is a waste of time given the way the charging curve starts to drop and slow after 80%. Charging to 100% is something that I will do overnight, but rarely when I want to make time on the road and be efficient. Hope that helps.

 

[Chris@ScoutMotors]

This is what got me excited and on a different mindframe in regards to EVs: I watched the Tesla Semi presentation.

Range anxiety is a VERY real concern for trucking, and Musk's response was along these lines:

85% of trucking routes are regional routes, under 500 miles in a day. With a traditional semi, it goes to a yard and picks up a trailer, or has one already, then goes to another location to pick up part of their load, this takes at least 30 minutes. Then to go to another location and either drop off or pick up more, this takes at least another 30 minutes.. Then another, and another. In the middle of this they then go to the gas station and fill up. This takes... at least 30 minutes.
Now imagine, that instead of having to take that time to fill up... at every single stop along the way, as soon as the wheel stop, they're "fueling up".

This is the change in thinking we as a country need to have in order to make the EV transition. It's no longer, "I'm going to go 500 miles and fill up." It's got to transition to, "I'm going to go 250 miles and have a spot of lunch, and charge while I do so. I'm going to stop at a rest area and charge while I do so."

That and electric roadways.

This is a good point, not to mention, a 500-mile drive is a solid 7-8 hours or so in the car... which can cause some serious fatigue and be a risk to the driver, and other drivers on the road.

250 miles alone is a long distance to travel in one stretch. Planning out a stop to stretch and rest for 20-30 min every couple hundred miles is a solid way to go. I know that's what I usually do when driving back and forth from DC to Miami... not to mention my Jeep doesn't normally make it more than 200-220 miles without needing to fill back up

 

[Rustic_father]

This is what got me excited and on a different mindframe in regards to EVs: I watched the Tesla Semi presentation.

Range anxiety is a VERY real concern for trucking, and Musk's response was along these lines:

85% of trucking routes are regional routes, under 500 miles in a day. With a traditional semi, it goes to a yard and picks up a trailer, or has one already, then goes to another location to pick up part of their load, this takes at least 30 minutes. Then to go to another location and either drop off or pick up more, this takes at least another 30 minutes.. Then another, and another. In the middle of this they then go to the gas station and fill up. This takes... at least 30 minutes.
Now imagine, that instead of having to take that time to fill up... at every single stop along the way, as soon as the wheel stop, they're "fueling up".

This is the change in thinking we as a country need to have in order to make the EV transition. It's no longer, "I'm going to go 500 miles and fill up." It's got to transition to, "I'm going to go 250 miles and have a spot of lunch, and charge while I do so. I'm going to stop at a rest area and charge while I do so."

That and electric roadways.

Very well put. I explain this often to people when i explain how my road trips work. In any given road trip you will need to stop for bathroom breaks after about 2-3 hours usually. Often if you have an ICE vehicle you will pull up to the pump (maybe wait in line for 1 or 2 cars) then fill up, then go park, get out and then go to the bathroom. All in all that scenario is about 10-15 minutes. My stop is also about the same, but the key difference is i go directly to the charger, plug in, and walk inside to go use the bathroom. Often the chargers are located in the way back of a parking lot so it is a bit of a walk but that walk takes time, it stretches my legs and by the time i have gotten back (depending on state of charge) i could have gotten anywhere from 40-60% of my whole battery in that time. all in all it is about the same 10-15 minutes, unless the trip is very far and i need to target a certain battery % before i leave...or if the chargers are slow in lower populated areas.

the above is a real but is a perfect scenario during my travels around i95....so it is not how it will be everywhere. When i traveled from Virginia to Tennessee the charging stops were slower and behind hotels and there were no highway rest stops that made the trip convenient.

to piggy back range anxiety is very real and there is nothing anybody can tell a sketpic about it that will calm them down. unfortunately the ONLY thing that can calm range anxiety is to actually live with one(or long term rental). I was scared about range even for the first 3 months of owning my car until i did a road trip from VA to PA and everything was better than i expected.

one fun "exercise" you can do is go to A better route planner and set your vehicle as the Rivian R1S (closest existing example) and plug in a normal trip you take. this website will show you all the charging stops you need to take and how long you need to stay at each charging stop. It is like 98% accurate from my experience.

 

[ColeAK]

I’m in Alaska and have had a Tesla for going on 9 years up here (4 with an S, now going on 5 years with a 3). A few things do the OP

EVs are more a victim to external forces. Going up hill, headwinds, snow covered roads,…. This is due to how efficient they are. My current truck (LX570) is rolling down the highway using ~1800 Wh/mi where as my model 3 is ~250 Wh/mi. So an additional ~200 Wh/mi going up hill only increases consumption by ~10% on the LX where as almost double on the 3. However there is a big difference with EVs is they use almost no energy while going down hill and if it is a long enough hill can gain some back. My commute to work is 9 miles and down ~1200 vertical feet. Most days going that 9 miles I use 1% (3 miles), coming back home use 4-5%, round trip I get about rated range. Now Going down some of the longer passes I can even gain a few % back. So what I’m saying is going up hill dosn’t affect the range at all as long as eventually you go back down.

Cold, cold in it self has almost no effect on range. However running the heat does. 2 weeks ago Clear day, dry roads, temps in the teens F, heat set to 62F driving the round trip to my cabin ~100 miles I got 270 Wh/mi, a <10% range loss, I easily get rated range even in the 20’sF. . My wife driving around town (stop and go, slower speeds) heat set to 75F will get a 40-50% loss when temps are similar. When it gets down into the -20’sF it’s a 40-50% range loss no matter what, as the heat pretty much runs max non stop no matter what the temp is set to.

Sitting. I’ve left both my teslas unplugged for up to 2 weeks at the airport in the winter in Alaska and lost at most 2%. I have all the wake features turned off: sentry, walk away lock, summon,…. Most weekends my model 3 sits Friday evening to Sunday afternoon at the cabin, we have had -26F already this winter, and I don’t even lose 1%. Now there is battery capacity lost in the cold however when the battery warms up (from driving) you get it back. There are many times I leave from work (my uphill 9mile drive) and get home with the same % I left work with. In this scenario is isnt that I don’t use electricity, the battery just warmed up to game back usable capacity put on hold due to cold.

In terms of camping and not using the truck. I find that very unlikely. I don’t own a Rivian yet (and it is getting less likely that I will) but One of the things that still some what bugs me about the Tesla is when you open the door it goes to full on mode, heat, radio, lights,…. Wakes everything up, even if I just walk into my garage to get something. I could see wheee opening a door a dozen times a day (especially if it is cold and the heat kicks on) could use 1-3% a day. But why they observed is insane, I’m saying something wrong with the truck.

Also I’m an avid off-road/overlander. Use the LX to access biking, camping, hiking, fishing, hunting, foregoing,… I’ve always thought the concept of running anything off the truck battery is a bad idea. One of the reasons the camp kitchen is completely pointless for camping. Running the 2 burners, a coffee maker, air compressor,… could easily use at least 10%-15% a day. Way better off to use Fuel/camp fire to cook, and a battery “generator” to run/charge everything. I have this set up (with 400w of panels) and it is awesome, I will still use it when I get an EV truck

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[J Alynn]

Software and Hardware.

Well now I feel stupid. Thanks

 

[IdahoJOAT]

Well now I feel stupid. Thanks

No worries! Ain't no one judging.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Great topic and thanks for all the insight and feedback. I think it is good to share these experiences and best practices with EV's as there are a number of people that have never owned an EV and only know what they hear.

Thanks for the contributions!