Removable top is a must

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61scout80

Member
1st Year Member
Nov 14, 2022
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Crestwood, KY
Scout Motors, please learn from Toyota's failure with the FJ cruiser. It was an exceptionally capable and good-looking vehicle from a legendary brand that was marginally received at best. The FJ absolutely should have taken a larger bite out of the Wrangler's sales numbers and should still be in production today. But the top was not removable, so it did not survive. It was a cartoon version of itself.

Toyota has plans to release an electric FJ in '24. Once again without the removable roof, which will mean they are competing with the Bronco Sport, not the Bronco 2 & 4. I do not believe the FJ will flourish as a true off roader.

Without a removable roof and doors the new Scout will not be competing with the Wrangler and Bronco. That is where the brand needs to dominate to get started. After the initial vehicle gets launched is the time to build a tamed version for those who would be interested.

Thanks for the opportunity to chime in!
 
I too would love a removeable top for a Scout EV. this would also be great because i cannot think of a single EV that has a fully removeable top. Hummer EV has removeable roof sections but it doesn't come off like a ford bronco would. I immagine the Scout EV should model it's removeable top after the Bronco or the Jeep Wrangler.
 
Yep and a split rear hatch like a Land Cruiser and Scout II.

Yes. My wife's Rubicon has the swing out gate and It's an inconvenience often. Far more so than our previous Wranglers have been. Often we need to pull the jeep forward to load it up if someone parks behind us at a store.

With the YJ and TJ it wasn't so bad because they were so small. You could park at the leading edge of a space and swing the gate open without overhanging the parking stall. Not so much with a 4 door JL
 
I'd love to see a fold down tailgate like a pickup truck with glass that slides into it.
Pop up glass and fold down tail would be my #2

When you folks say split tailgate are you talking about wrangler/bronco style?

Would they do a spare tire as an option? or an inflatable tire tucked away on the inside?
I really don't dig the tires hanging on the rear
 
I'd love to see a fold down tailgate like a pickup truck with glass that slides into it.
Pop up glass and fold down tail would be my #2

When you folks say split tailgate are you talking about wrangler/bronco style?

Would they do a spare tire as an option? or an inflatable tire tucked away on the inside?
I really don't dig the tires hanging on the rear
I'd prefer to have the tailgate and lift glass.
 
Scout Motors, please learn from Toyota's failure with the FJ cruiser. It was an exceptionally capable and good-looking vehicle from a legendary brand that was marginally received at best. The FJ absolutely should have taken a larger bite out of the Wrangler's sales numbers and should still be in production today. But the top was not removable, so it did not survive. It was a cartoon version of itself.

Toyota has plans to release an electric FJ in '24. Once again without the removable roof, which will mean they are competing with the Bronco Sport, not the Bronco 2 & 4. I do not believe the FJ will flourish as a true off roader.

Without a removable roof and doors the new Scout will not be competing with the Wrangler and Bronco. That is where the brand needs to dominate to get started. After the initial vehicle gets launched is the time to build a tamed version for those who would be interested.

Thanks for the opportunity to chime in!
Yes! This is a must!

Ideally also removable doors.

The Bronco got this right with their various soft and hard roof options and even the ability to have both a removable hardtop and roof rails. Also removable doors that leave the side mirrors on the vehicle.

The Scout should be highly versatile and highly customizable.
 
As mentioned before, I'm one that hopes to see a soft top option. A few post suggest to stick with the Scout's original openess feel. Let's assume, for this conversation, that Scout Motors is unable to attain that in today's world and we would have to expect to see something similar to the Jeep Wrangler or Bronco (full roll bar and frames around windows).

Thoughts on this type of approach?
All windows roll down to include back iconic Scout II angled glass. As well as the back glass to reduce drag by letting air flow on through. Maybe a single touch screen button that does all of this at once.

I will say that Bronco did a better job than Jeep Wrangler with their upper window track. I personally like how the door itself doesn't include the frame for the window track. This also helps create the illusion of the Scout top as a separate component by not running the body color up and over the windows like Jeeps do. The door removal process in general is more thought out as you can see in this video.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35585496/2021-ford-bronco-door-roof-removal-features-video/

To me there is value in the ideas that make it simple and fast to go topless. Ones that do not take a half hour with the help of a buddy to remove a hard top for example. I know our family would use and enjoy it more often if it was quick, easy and didn't take up all the cargo space (a bonus to the above idea).
 
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Knowing the concern with the top down in the EV world is the reduction of the range within each charge.

Few ideas:
  • This appears to fold in half and tuck vertically behind the back seat when not in use. Easy to pull out when needing to reduce drag, or be able to lock up things when the top is down. https://leonardaccessories.com/prod...-aries-jeep-security-cargo-lid-center-section
  • Same idea, just not as secure. Cheaper. Maybe more of a hassle to quickly put on?? Potentially easier to stow away?? https://www.morris4x4center.com/coverking-jeep-tonneau-cover-3.html
  • With roof sections removed on hard top version (or retractable soft top version as mentioned in above post) find a way to remove/retract the back glass to let air pass on through.
  • Series of switches at each of these types of items that communicate with the computers range estimations. As each is engaged/disengaged the range estimation updates accordingly allowing the driver to configure options based on the trip they are about to embark on. Tops off but windows are up for example could be just enough to reduce that trips range anxiety.
  • Could look to have a "top down" button beside the range indicator that would switch to show the range if you were thinking of putting the top down. ...or, just always display both ranges. To further a previous idea mentioned in an above post regarding a button for the roof to retract and all the windows to go down - when you click that button it shows your new range with a "do you wish to proceed". Also asking expected average speed, or maybe terrain type (highway, country stroll, trails, etc.) would be needed as well to better estimate the range. 10 mph on a trail adventure vs plowing through the air at 70 mph would drastically change those range estimations.
No getting around the fact that range will be reduced. The consumer just needs to be made fully aware of these losses to decide how they choose to tackle the trip ahead. I honestly see the top down used more for short trips and adventures. The longer 6 hour highway trips are more likely to have the top up, but again that range difference can be decided by the driver.

Just out of curiosity does anyone have any idea what the range losses would even look like (maybe limit this question to higher speed highway travel)? Are we looking at subtracting 20, 50 or more miles?
 
Last edited:
Knowing the concern with the top down in the EV world is the reduction of the range within each charge.

Few ideas:
  • This appears to fold in half and tuck vertically behind the back seat when not in use. Easy to pull out when needing to reduce drag, or be able to lock up things when the top is down. https://leonardaccessories.com/prod...-aries-jeep-security-cargo-lid-center-section
  • Same idea, just not as secure. Cheaper. Maybe more of a hassle to quickly put on?? Potentially easier to stow away?? https://www.morris4x4center.com/coverking-jeep-tonneau-cover-3.html
  • With roof sections removed on hard top version (or retractable soft top version as mentioned in above post) find a way to remove/retract the back glass to let air pass on through.
  • Series of switches at each of these types of items that communicate with the computers range estimations. As each is engaged/disengaged the range estimation updates accordingly allowing the driver to configure options based on the trip they are about to embark on. Tops off but windows are up for example could be just enough to reduce that trips range anxiety.
  • Could look to have a "top down" button beside the range indicator that would switch to show the range if you were thinking of putting the top down. ...or, just always display both ranges. To further a previous idea mentioned in an above post regarding a button for the roof to retract and all the windows to go down - when you click that button it shows your new range with a "do you wish to proceed". Also asking expected average speed, or maybe terrain type (highway, country stroll, trails, etc.) would be needed as well to better estimate the range. 10 mph on a trail adventure vs plowing through the air at 70 mph would drastically change those range estimations.
No getting around the fact that range will be reduced. The consumer just needs to be made fully aware of these losses to decide how they choose to tackle the trip ahead. I honestly see the top down used more for short trips and adventures. The longer 6 hour highway trips are more likely to have the top up, but again that range difference can be decided by the driver.

Just out of curiosity does anyone have any idea what the range losses would even look like (maybe limit this question to higher speed highway travel)? Are we looking at subtracting 20, 50 or more miles?
I think the drag coefficient will make a huge impact and until design is complete and tested it will be hard to know. Im certain that if ya a soft top and you just unlatch and fold the front section back-leaving it sit on top of the vehicle will certainly create more drag than just removing the top in its entirety. Im curious with a boxy vehicle like this how much the roof on/off really impacts. Gotta think the big, square front end will be the biggest impact at least at highway speeds. Cross winds on slower adventure driving may impact range as well. I’d love to see glass down option for rear window but with most of us preferring rear tailgate/hatch combo I don’t know how you physically can. Only way would be if tailgate were like the side doors. The rooftop has the glass opening cut out so it can hinge up and down but the tailgate has a power window that when up it sealed tight to the hatch opening. Trick is the rear glass window wouldn’t be as wide as the hatch opening (need bearing/mount points at the rear corners) so not sure how it would come together. It’s like having your front drivers door top sill at say 40” long but the glass is only 32” of the overall length. That leaves 8” of top surface to seal or design so you aren’t channeling rain water straight down and into the glass/window pocket.
Hoping Scout can solve for it though because I keep thinking if all windows including rear can open and a large pano moon roof happens I wouldn’t need a removable top
 
As mentioned before, I'm one that hopes to see a soft top option. A few post suggest to stick with the Scout's original openess feel. Let's assume, for this conversation, that Scout Motors is unable to attain that in today's world and we would have to expect to see something similar to the Jeep Wrangler or Bronco (full roll bar and frames around windows).

Thoughts on this type of approach?
All windows roll down to include back iconic Scout II angled glass. As well as the back glass to reduce drag by letting air flow on through. Maybe a single touch screen button that does all of this at once.

I will say that Bronco did a better job than Jeep Wrangler with their upper window track. I personally like how the door itself doesn't include the frame for the window track. This also helps create the illusion of the Scout top as a separate component by not running the body color up and over the windows like Jeeps do. The door removal process in general is more thought out as you can see in this video.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35585496/2021-ford-bronco-door-roof-removal-features-video/

To me there is value in the ideas that make it simple and fast to go topless. Ones that do not take a half hour with the help of a buddy to remove a hard top for example. I know our family would use and enjoy it more often if it was quick, easy and didn't take up all the cargo space (a bonus to the above idea).
I would probably choose that over a soft top. Where I live it’s either hot, cold or raining or a combo of them all. There is also the problem of theft with soft tops. If Scout could do it…a hard panel instead of soft top even for the sky one touch style would be great!
 
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Check out the Fisker Ocean's "California Mode" for a similar concept with a solid roof vs the fabric roof of the Jeep.
 
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Check out the Fisker Ocean's "California Mode" for a similar concept with a solid roof vs the fabric roof of the Jeep.
I mentioned that in an earlier thread. I wonder if it’s patented. I would be all about it!!!
 
Love the Fisker design. Been watching that one evolve since the beginning. I like the roof idea and wonder could you expand on it. Could that operable roof panel and fixed rear panel be set on n with pins? Then you could pop the pins on a nice day and fully remove the panels all together. Guessing as that one is the weight would be substantial but there are a lot of great light weight plastics-both clear and translucent that could make for a cool system similar to this.
 
Love the Fisker design. Been watching that one evolve since the beginning. I like the roof idea and wonder could you expand on it. Could that operable roof panel and fixed rear panel be set on n with pins? Then you could pop the pins on a nice day and fully remove the panels all together. Guessing as that one is the weight would be substantial but there are a lot of great light weight plastics-both clear and translucent that could make for a cool system similar to this.
I’m hoping it’s automatic like some of the higher end hard tonneau covers
 
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Check out the Fisker Ocean's "California Mode" for a similar concept with a solid roof vs the fabric roof of the Jeep.
This is little more than an over-engineered sun roof. Being open only for people in the front seats is kind of sad for people sitting in the back.

I’d like to see various roof options, canvas, mesh and removable hardtop. The Hardtop need to be compatible with a roof mounted rack.

I’d like to be able to go on a camping trip with a kayak or other gear loaded on the roof. Then once everything is unloaded at camp be able to explore the area with the top wide open for all passengers.

(I assume that carrying a load above the roof with a soft top is impossible for safety reasons.)
 
This is little more than an over-engineered sun roof. Being open only for people in the front seats is kind of sad for people sitting in the back.

I’d like to see various roof options, canvas, mesh and removable hardtop. The Hardtop need to be compatible with a roof mounted rack.

I’d like to be able to go on a camping trip with a kayak or other gear loaded on the roof. Then once everything is unloaded at camp be able to explore the area with the top wide open for all passengers.

(I assume that carrying a load above the roof with a soft top is impossible for safety reasons.)

It's all part of the tradeoffs between a fixed roof, panel roof and a completely removable top where a full roll cage is necessary. If you have a completely removable roof like the Jeep or Bronco, it is very tricky to get a decent roof load rating without tapping into the roll cage for stability. Bronco utilizes the front windshield cross member and the rear removable roof section. The static load rating is 450 lbs. but the dynamic (while moving) load rating is 110 lbs. For comparison, the Land Rover Defender with a fixed roof has a static load rating of 661 lbs. and a dynamic rating of 291 lbs. If you get into overlanding, that load rating (particularly the dynamic rating) is easy to hit when you add a roof tent or other equipment.

Everything has tradeoffs.
 
It's all part of the tradeoffs between a fixed roof, panel roof and a completely removable top where a full roll cage is necessary. If you have a completely removable roof like the Jeep or Bronco, it is very tricky to get a decent roof load rating without tapping into the roll cage for stability. Bronco utilizes the front windshield cross member and the rear removable roof section. The static load rating is 450 lbs. but the dynamic (while moving) load rating is 110 lbs. For comparison, the Land Rover Defender with a fixed roof has a static load rating of 661 lbs. and a dynamic rating of 291 lbs. If you get into overlanding, that load rating (particularly the dynamic rating) is easy to hit when you add a roof tent or other equipment.

Everything has tradeoffs.
Let’s (scout) do our own thing!
 
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