Move Harvester generator to frunk

[Geronimo]

I pre-ordered a Terra Harvester, due to the 500 mile range. Later I learned that the harvester option came with a 150 mile battery pack due to the location of the Harvester. I've since been on the fence between full electric or harvester based on the electric range. It made me wonder if it was possible to relocate the harvester to the space used by the frunk, which would allow a full size battery pack augmented by the harvester. The combination of a full size pack and harvester would then theoretically allow for a 700 mile range option. The frunk lid would make access to the generator easier, for maintenance or repairs, and i would think that it would negate the need to build and produce two different sizes battery packs. I don't think I've heard any other manufacturer offer anywhere close to 700 miles range.

 

[AAW83]

I pre-ordered a Terra Harvester, due to the 500 mile range. Later I learned that the harvester option came with a 150 mile battery pack due to the location of the Harvester. I've since been on the fence between full electric or harvester based on the electric range. It made me wonder if it was possible to relocate the harvester to the space used by the frunk, which would allow a full size battery pack augmented by the harvester. The combination of a full size pack and harvester would then theoretically allow for a 700 mile range option. The frunk lid would make access to the generator easier, for maintenance or repairs, and i would think that it would negate the need to build and produce two different sizes battery packs. I don't think I've heard any other manufacturer offer anywhere close to 700 miles range.

I personally like the frunk because the more storage I can get, I will take. With that said, I think Scout should actually look into an engine similar to the e-REX by INNengine. It’s half the size of a an electric motor, lighter than your typical engine, more powerful than a 4 stroke, super quiet with no vibration and very efficient. It would be the perfect range extender motor and there would be very little cargo space and battery capacity loss.

 

[Logan]

This be honest the frunk is one of the facets of the vehicles that I’m most excited about. I’d not be quick to give that feature up.

For a truck, I feel like a frunk is a huge benefit (lockable covered storage). Particularly for day to day stuff like groceries, or backpacks.

For the traveler I expect it’s the area I’ll use the most. A lockable area that is outside the main interior? It’s the perfect place to store my dirty mountain biking gear or stinky backpacking stuff.

I even do pretty regular long road trips (900 miles a day), and I don’t go more than 300-400 miles between stops tops.

Would I want more EV range on top of the 150 already provided? Yes. Would I be willing to give up the frunk? No, I don’t think so.

 

[DBHowe]

I pre-ordered a Terra Harvester, due to the 500 mile range. Later I learned that the harvester option came with a 150 mile battery pack due to the location of the Harvester. I've since been on the fence between full electric or harvester based on the electric range. It made me wonder if it was possible to relocate the harvester to the space used by the frunk, which would allow a full size battery pack augmented by the harvester. The combination of a full size pack and harvester would then theoretically allow for a 700 mile range option. The frunk lid would make access to the generator easier, for maintenance or repairs, and i would think that it would negate the need to build and produce two different sizes battery packs. I don't think I've heard any other manufacturer offer anywhere close to 700 miles range.

Interesting thought. I see the advantage of the extra miles and I'm still trying to figure out that how I'll use a Frunk. (Hey, every square inch of my garage is utilized so I guess I'll figure it out! (*grin*)) But I don't think I'd like the extra weigh of the generator and the big battery pack. Seems a bit too much for the back country runs I like to do. Everything has it's pluses and minuses I guess.

 

[speedrye]

I was thinking they were putting the gas tank in where some of the battery was, but I don't think we're talking about a big tank. Seems they could keep the Harvester where it is, move the gas tank to the bottom of the frunk and install a large battery. Frunk space would be reduced a bit, but only the deepest part. The idea of the Harvester in the rear makes a lot of sense to me as that space is wasted/empty on SUVs with a rear-mounted spare.

 

[CarTechGeek]

I pre-ordered a Terra Harvester, due to the 500 mile range. Later I learned that the harvester option came with a 150 mile battery pack due to the location of the Harvester. I've since been on the fence between full electric or harvester based on the electric range. It made me wonder if it was possible to relocate the harvester to the space used by the frunk, which would allow a full size battery pack augmented by the harvester. The combination of a full size pack and harvester would then theoretically allow for a 700 mile range option. The frunk lid would make access to the generator easier, for maintenance or repairs, and i would think that it would negate the need to build and produce two different sizes battery packs. I don't think I've heard any other manufacturer offer anywhere close to 700 miles range.

The Dodge Ramcharger EREV has it's engine in the Frunk, and it has less EV range than Harvester equipped Scouts.

Ignoring the packaging concerns (which are very real) for the moment, keeping the 350 mile battery would increase the price by at least $10K, and weight by at least 1200 more lbs, above whatever the Harvester equipped models end up at.

Those aren't good tradeoffs just to get more EV miles when you already have access to gas range extender.

Even, 150 miles of EV range is already overkill when you have a gas powered RE.

Most people only drive about 40 miles/day or less on average, so it makes sense to start limiting pack size just above that. Which is what the Chevy Volt did, and I remember many people talking about going months on one tank of gas.

 

[R1TVT]

Driving for 700 miles straight isn't for everyone. LOL. Plus, the FRUNK is an awesome feature.

Dodge took the easy way out... Not a fan at all. But you can always go that direction if you don't want any extra storage.

I have no dog in this race since 350 miles of pure battery range is all I need, and I actually find driving my truck to charger locations (with food) every three or four hours to be a way, way more relaxing way to travel on a road trip.

 

[Chaparral]

Driving for 700 miles straight isn't for everyone. LOL. Plus, the FRUNK is an awesome feature.

Dodge took the easy way out... Not a fan at all. But you can always go that direction if you don't want any extra storage.

I have no dog in this race since 350 miles of pure battery range is all I need, and I actually find driving my truck to charger locations (with food) every three or four hours to be a way, way more relaxing way to travel on a road trip.

We have gone 700 miles before (rotating drivers) but not without stopping once for food.

500 miles before needing to charge is fine just for me. In the course of driving such a long distance there will likely be plenty of opportunities to charge.

The frunk is an essential feature. Carrying around a big engine in it that might only be used 10% of the time (or less) makes no sense when a big enough engine fits under the truck bed.

If a big engine adds additional weight it is decreasing range 90% of the time and increasing running costs, because it is not running and just adding to the mass the EV has to move.

 

[Logan]

If a big engine adds additional weight it is decreasing range 90% of the time and increasing running costs, because it is not running and just adding to the mass the EV has to move.

Just pointing out that engines are pretty light, in comparisons to batteries. And the difference between "little engine" and "big engine" isn't very much in terms of weight either.

The VW 3 cylinder 1L engine that everyone is talking about as a potential generator engine is ~214lbs. The 3.6L pentastar used in the Ramcharger is 340lbs. The "big engine" weighs 126lbs more than the "little engine". Yes, that is a large percentage difference, but total, its still not that much. Its about as much more weight, as an additional 10kw of battery pack

I'm totally with you about keeping the frunk though. I am excited for a frunk.

And personally on long trips, my limiting factor is always my bladder. The 900 miles in one day trips we don't even swap drivers (I drive), and we actually eat on the move (cooler in the car, my wife makes sandwiches as we drive. It started because the kids wouldn't be hungry when we stopped, but then would be hungry when we were 15min away from any exit with food in the middle of nowhere, because of course :/). Which means the only stops are pee breaks, and fuel ups, usually at the same time, every ~300 miles or so.

 

[DBHowe]

Plus, does having the Traveler in the back help keep the noise out of the passenger compartment? This might be especially true as you approach the speed of sound, which with 1,000 pounds of torque might be doable!

 

[Logan]

Plus, does having the Traveler in the back help keep the noise out of the passenger compartment? This might be especially true as you approach the speed of sound, which with 1,000 pounds of torque might be doable!

I have a buddy who used to work at Nissan. And even 10 years ago, I was saying "why don't we do hybrids like they do with trains, where we use them as a generator".

And at the time his response was "NVH problems".

When I saw the harvester at the rear of the vehicle, one of my first thoughts was "I wonder if they're doing this for NVH reasons, keeping it as far away from the driver as possible".

 

[DBHowe]

It kind of makes sense. What's NHV?

 

[Logan]

It kind of makes sense. What's NHV?

Oh, sorry.

Industry term. Noise, Vibration, and Harshness.

Basically any perceived feelings (sound you can hear, vibrations you can feel, clattery/clunky things, stuff like that).

In Nissans case, they were talking about how weird it is to drive a vehicle when the generator is at like 3-4k RPM, and you're stopped at a red light (for instance).

 

[DBHowe]

Oh, sorry.

Industry term. Noise, Vibration, and Harshness.

Basically any perceived feelings (sound you can hear, vibrations you can feel, clattery/clunky things, stuff like that).

In Nissans case, they were talking about how weird it is to drive a vehicle when the generator is at like 3-4k RPM, and you're stopped at a red light (for instance).

Ah, awesome. Thank you. I bet it's quite a challenge. An engine big enough to power a significant generator, but small and quiet enough to not be annoying. Placement in the back makes lots of sense.

 

[J Alynn]

Ah, awesome. Thank you. I bet it's quite a challenge. An engine big enough to power a significant generator, but small and quiet enough to not be annoying. Placement in the back makes lots of sense.

Until the floor rusts out like the original Scouts-then the noise and fumes will be a bit problematic

 

[CarTechGeek]

And at the time his response was "NVH problems".

Not sure that really stands up. A genset requires no physical connection to the rest of the drive train, so it can be better isolated than a conventional hybrids engine, so there is no reason it would be worse than conventional hybrid, and some reason it could be better.

The reason series hybrids are rare compared to Series/Parallel desigsn is because of the efficiency losses, from extra energy conversion.

Good Luck trying to sell your 35 MPG series hybrid, while Toyota is selling Series/Parallel designs with 50 MPG.

 

[Logan]

Not sure that really stands up. A genset requires no physical connection to the rest of the drive train, so it can be better isolated than a conventional hybrids engine, so there is no reason it would be worse than conventional hybrid, and some reason it could be better.

The reason series hybrids are rare compared to Series/Parallel desigsn is because of the efficiency losses, from extra energy conversion.

Oh, I'm totally aware that the engine isn't directly connected, and only drives a generator.

I can only reply with what he said. Apparently the main problem was the NVH being decoupled from vehicle speed. The example he gave at the time was the "it sounds/feels like I'm at full throttle when I'm at a stoplight" scenario.

 

[CarTechGeek]

Oh, I'm totally aware that the engine isn't directly connected, and only drives a generator.

I can only reply with what he said. Apparently the main problem was the NVH being decoupled from vehicle speed. The example he gave at the time was the "it sounds/feels like I'm at full throttle when I'm at a stoplight" scenario.

Series hybrids generally match genset output, to current needs as much as they can, and would just shut off the engine at a light.

Efficiency is the main problem with series hybrids. Especially in the US market.

Have you noticed Nissan has ZERO hybrids in the USA? But Nissan has been selling E-Power series Hybrids in Europe and Japan for 5 or 6 years.

I think they know marketing it would be nightmare in USA where they would have to be tested on tougher EPA cycle.

Because it looks like it only gets about 30 MPG on the highway, which is just brutal, considering just regular ICE cars get close to 40 MPG on the highway, and a Prius will get 50 MPG.

OTOH Honda has the same basic design as Nissan E-power, except one difference. At Highway speeds Honda's system clutches in a gear that connect the engine directly to the wheels, and suddenly that terrible Nissan E-Power design that would get about 30 MPG highway, jumps to 47 MPG for Honda, and Honda doesn't need to feel too embarrassed to sell it's hybrids here.

 

[TreeKiller]

I reserved the Traveler Harvester because I need a daily driver that is capable of trailering my old Jeep Wrangler on the weekends. There are plenty of BEV SUVs and trucks on the market now that advertise a ~350 mile range and are capable of Class IV towing, but all of them experience a ~50% range reduction when towing something that weighs 5,000+ lbs.

I cannot live with a 175 mile range, but I can live with a 250 mile range when I have a generator that will ostensibly be able to continue charging my batteries while I"m out wheeling my old Wrangler, so that they will be fully or almost fully charged again 8 hours later when I return to my Scout to head home.

I don't really see anybody talking about towing. I've been waiting for a BEV SUV that could tow real weight for a meaningful distance and I think that with the arrival of the Scout Traveler Harvester, that wait is over.

I couldn't care less about the frunk.

 

[Albal]

Oh, I'm totally aware that the engine isn't directly connected, and only drives a generator.

I can only reply with what he said. Apparently the main problem was the NVH being decoupled from vehicle speed. The example he gave at the time was the "it sounds/feels like I'm at full throttle when I'm at a stoplight" scenario.

My copilot's Honda CRV Hybrid is set up like this. It's basically a tiny-battery EV plus a generator-engine. Like a Harvester, but with a minute battery. And, yes, the disconnect between what the generator is doing and what the driver is doing can be very disconcerting! You can be driving along calmly and then suddenly you hear the motor redlining. Then it stops. Then it ramps up to medium then back down to low revs. Then stops. Then redlines. Then... I understand with later versions they've worked on the issue, though I don't know how much ultimate success you can have with this arrangement if your battery is tiny. Certainly the larger battery of the Harvester will help a lot, allowing the transitions to be slower, but I think there will still be a disconnect between what you're doing as a driver and the sounds of the generator. For example, if you're battery is very low it might have the generator revving high, even as you coast to a stop at a light.