Fusilier down and out......for now

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JohnnyScout

Active member
Dec 22, 2023
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Reported by Top Gear the Ineos Fusilier is dead in both full EV and extended range version due to many factors including slumping EV sales and tariffs and ban coming up in 10 years on even hybrids in UK and EU.

Although it was not scheduled for production until 2027 at least there were prototypes


Still waiting fir flesh and blood Scout to appear
 
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I love how the "media" reports on the "slumping EV sales" as if it were a fact but it is objectively not. EV sales are not slumping are are actually hitting record levels. Have been for years now. The EV market is healthy an continues to increase every quarter.

Someone is pushing a false narrative, my money is on big oil trying to 'will' slowing EV sales. Good thing they won't succeed.
 
I love how the "media" reports on the "slumping EV sales" as if it were a fact but it is objectively not. EV sales are not slumping are are actually hitting record levels. Have been for years now. The EV market is healthy an continues to increase every quarter.

Someone is pushing a false narrative, my money is on big oil trying to 'will' slowing EV sales. Good thing they won't succeed.
I thought this was an interesting pull, and surprising given that it's price point in well below the G-Wagon and offered an extended battery. I guess it depends on your source concerning EV sales, but as a whole new car inventory is piling up with high rates. The Fast Lane Car did an interesting discussion on this vehicle but if done right leaves a greater opportunity for SM to jump ahead in the affordable utilitarian EV market.

 
Fun fact, there has not been an EV "slowdown" as is being widely reported. EVs have been on an exponential growth curve for years which as shown no signs of slowing down. I'm not sure where the whole "EVs are in decline" narrative started (I have some ideas though!) but it's false. The fact most media sources continue to report a "slowdown in EV sales" as if it were fact says more about the media than anything else.

The graph in this post comes from this link:
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicle...nual-new-light-duty-ev-sales-topped-1-million

Canadian data shows a similar growth curve and annual data is available here: https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-a...10-percent-of-all-new-vehicles-in-canada.html


EV sales are NOT in decline. That is a lie.

It's crazy to me that such obviously false information is propagating through the mainstream media like it has been.

1720795368578.png
Source: energy.gov - US EV sales.


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Source: Canada Energy Regulator - Canadian EV sales.
 
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If the hard numbers show EV growth, what does it matter what anyone says?

Related tangentially, I would not want to be in Houston right now without power for weeks and trying to get to work (or anywhere not on foot) in an EV.
 
If the hard numbers show EV growth, what does it matter what anyone says?

Related tangentially, I would not want to be in Houston right now without power for weeks and trying to get to work (or anywhere not on foot) in an EV.
Well, I wouldn’t want to be in Houston now either, or any summer to come, but it seems like power outage would similarly affect ice cars, I mean gas stations won’t work either, right? At least with some EVs (lightning, Kia, Hyundai, rivian) you could power some necessities off them, e.g. go somewhere where there is power, charge, then bring it home.
 
Well, I wouldn’t want to be in Houston now either, or any summer to come, but it seems like power outage would similarly affect ice cars, I mean gas stations won’t work either, right? At least with some EVs (lightning, Kia, Hyundai, rivian) you could power some necessities off them, e.g. go somewhere where there is power, charge, then bring it home.
Quick search on the Google machine shows you are correct; lots of gas stations shut down during power outage. One can fill a jerry can with petro, however, much easier than a power storage bank (at least for now). This issue is especially apparent/true for off roaders.
 
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I love how the "media" reports on the "slumping EV sales" as if it were a fact but it is objectively not. EV sales are not slumping are are actually hitting record levels. Have been for years now. The EV market is healthy an continues to increase every quarter.

Someone is pushing a false narrative, my money is on big oil trying to 'will' slowing EV sales. Good thing they won't succeed.
I believe the biggest issue at hand is high interest rates in pretty much every nation.

In the US, pre-pandemic it wasn’t unusual to see 72 month 0% APR on many vehicles, now it’s RARE to see 0% for 36 months.

Hopefully with the juggernaut of VW behind Scout motors, it’s possible they can do 0% APR for the initial push.

My wife and I live in Columbia, SC, and drove past the new Scout Motors development……and it’s quite literally the biggest development either of us have seen in person, and she is from Richmond, Virginia and I am from NY and have served 22 years active duty in a bevy of states and countries.

I have faith VW won’t let Scout fail, as the state capital here is a smaller capital region, but still growth is good generally speaking….and adding 4,000 static jobs from Scout alone will be a boom.
 
If the hard numbers show EV growth, what does it matter what anyone says?

Related tangentially, I would not want to be in Houston right now without power for weeks and trying to get to work (or anywhere not on foot) in an EV.
Having lived through a natural disaster with an EV where we were without power for a week I can categorically say that I much prefer having an EV over a gas vehicle when the grid is down. Not only could it power our essential appliances for the entire time the power was out (in silence with no need to refuel) but if we did need to charge (we didn’t) one of the few places with power was a DC fast charger so it would have been a 20 minute thing.

Contrast that with my neighbours who constantly needed to refuel their generators and wait in hours-long fuel lines at the handful of working gas stations and I can confirm that an EV is a much better thing to have in times of energy crises.
 
Having lived through a natural disaster with an EV where we were without power for a week I can categorically say that I much prefer having an EV over a gas vehicle when the grid is down. Not only could it power our essential appliances for the entire time the power was out (in silence with no need to refuel) but if we did need to charge (we didn’t) one of the few places with power was a DC fast charger so it would have been a 20 minute thing.

Contrast that with my neighbours who constantly needed to refuel their generators and wait in hours-long fuel lines at the handful of working gas stations and I can confirm that an EV is a much better thing to have in times of energy crises.
Wish the majority of nay-sayers would believe you. As ambassadors we just need to keep informing and supporting SM and maybe the grass roots effort will convert others. So long as we aren’t all asked to meet in the middle of a field and share Kool-aid at midnight I’m onboard for supporting EV
 
Wish the majority of nay-sayers would believe you. As ambassadors we just need to keep informing and supporting SM and maybe the grass roots effort will convert others. So long as we aren’t all asked to meet in the middle of a field and share Kool-aid at midnight I’m onboard for supporting EV
I mean I get where they’re coming from and I used to think like that as well. In theory yeah, the jerry can does seem like it would be faster and easier for example but you have to then think ‘okay, where do you fill the Jerry can?’ Where will you find a working gas pump? What about the lineup for that gas pump? What if the station runs out of gas? Is the fuel already in the Jerry can any good? Has it gone bad? Did you remember to put stabilizer in last year?

With an EV odds are you won’t have to recharge for quite a while in a situation like that because you’re almost never actually down near zero charge (I only had half a charge when the grid went down and would have been fine for at least three weeks running the fridges and freezers and lights etc.). But even if you do need to charge at some point, literally anywhere with power would do the trick. Even a place with solar panels could work. Crowd-sourced EV apps like PlugShare quickly show where the working chargers are and the cool thing about an EV charger that isn’t true for a gas pump is that if the charger is working it can’t “run out” of electrons.

Once the underground tank at a gas station is empty that’s it! Everyone in line for fuel is screwed. You might have been patiently waiting for hours in line to get gas but if they run out before it’s your turn that’s it. Too bad for you. If you’re waiting in line for an EV charger at least it can’t run out of electricity.
 
okay, where do you fill the Jerry can?’
Even if I believed that an EV will power my whole house for weeks, I’m more concerned about the use case that Scouts are intended for — off road. I can easily fill a 5.3 gallon can on the way out to the desert for $25 at a hundred different gas stations along the way. What are my options for power storage?
 
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Even if I believed that an EV will power my whole house for weeks, I’m more concerned about the use case that Scouts are intended for — off road. I can easily fill a 5.3 gallon can on the way out to the desert for $25 at a hundred different gas stations along the way. What are my options for power storage?
You’ll be able to charge up the Scout anywhere with electricity. You could even hit up a camp site overnight and charge up while you sleep, lots of camp sites have power and let’s face it, most overlanding is just car camping with extra kit.

Also, EVs work a bit differently than a combustion car. Combustion vehicles continuously consume fuel while they’re on meaning even if you’re not moving you’ll eventually run out of fuel and need to be refilled. EVs don’t work that way. They only really use energy when they’re moving. So if you just slowly crawling around the bush you won’t be consuming as much energy as you probably expect. EV range can more than double at low speed but most people don’t typically drive around at 20 km/hr. In the bush you might though, so your range would actually be pretty good.

As far as cost goes nothing beats electric. It costs me $2 to go 500km in my current vehicle. Even if you fast charge exclusively it’s still about half the cost of gasoline. You don’t need to bring a can with $25 bucks of energy with you in the desert, you just need an extension cord and to find a place with a light on. Or you could be a responsible adult and plan a little bit before hand and charge accordingly. Either way, I guarantee it’s not as big an issue as you might expect.
 
It costs me $2 to go 500km
Southern California Edison ranges between $0.33 per kWh and $0.42 per kWh, depending on usage.

Charging at home, I’d easily be at the $0.42 rate and $2 would get me 4.76 kWh, for a total of 13 to 20 miles at 65 mph. Not bad but a far cry from the 500km (310 miles) you’re experiencing. That’s charging at home, a best-case scenario. Not saying your experience isn’t real, just trying to show that we’re not dealing with the same situation and needs, e.g., I live in the western United States where I go to the desert often and don’t see humans or lights for days, intentionally.
 
Southern California Edison ranges between $0.33 per kWh and $0.42 per kWh, depending on usage.

Charging at home, I’d easily be at the $0.42 rate and $2 would get me 4.76 kWh, for a total of 13 to 20 miles at 65 mph. Not bad but a far cry from the 500km (310 miles) you’re experiencing. That’s charging at home, a best-case scenario. Not saying your experience isn’t real, just trying to show that we’re not dealing with the same situation and needs, e.g., I live in the western United States where I go to the desert often and don’t see humans or lights for days, intentionally.
Out of fairness-California is an extreme example of energy costs be it electricity or gasoline. Your prices are nearly 40-50% higher than the majority of the country. Granted you are equally comparing your costs in your region versus others but traveling outside your state would extend range just by crossing the state line. Ultimately your camping adventures will require a bumper rack with small portable generator and a Jerry can.
Being built to go off-road and selling for off-road use will be two separate approaches to buyers. The majority of buyers will never go off-roading. Those that do, no different than jeeps/ broncos/ tacomas will need to equip their vehicle for that person’s specific nature engagement. Taking a stock Bronco off roading for the same time you mentioned requires a lot of planning/equipment set-up so in theory the work to truly go adventuring is beyond what most of us will order on any lifestyle vehicle. And there isn’t anything wrong with that. And hey-if you want a 500 mile range battery and are willing to pay $10-15K for that-all the power to you.
 
Southern California Edison ranges between $0.33 per kWh and $0.42 per kWh, depending on usage.

Charging at home, I’d easily be at the $0.42 rate and $2 would get me 4.76 kWh, for a total of 13 to 20 miles at 65 mph. Not bad but a far cry from the 500km (310 miles) you’re experiencing. That’s charging at home, a best-case scenario. Not saying your experience isn’t real, just trying to show that we’re not dealing with the same situation and needs, e.g., I live in the western United States where I go to the desert often and don’t see humans or lights for days, intentionally.
Ouch! That's pretty much double our on-peak rate and I charge overnight when electricity costs $0.026 CAD/kWh. On a full charge (around 70 kWh) that works out to $1.82 which gives me about 500km or so of range.

And just to be clear, I wasn't backing up my whole house - just the important appliances which totaled less than 1.5kW of energy when they were running, I think we were mostly around 500W of draw at any given time and sometimes much less. During that week I only consumed about 10% of the charge in my car so at that rate with about a half charge when the storm hit we could have finished out the month.
 
I see all the Ford Lightning ads but still find it hard to comprehend that a battery only capable of pushing 3 tons down the road for only 4 hours can run an entire house for more than a day let alone more than 4 hours. But even with a nominal sized standy generator one can only utilize abput 1/4 of ones normal house electric needs. Forget AC for sure on battery.
 
I see all the Ford Lightning ads but still find it hard to comprehend that a battery only capable of pushing 3 tons down the road for only 4 hours can run an entire house for more than a day let alone more than 4 hours. But even with a nominal sized standy generator one can only utilize abput 1/4 of ones normal house electric needs. Forget AC for sure on battery.
Well believe it because it works and it works well! Pushing 3 tons down the road at highway speeds takes a lot of energy. Running a house is about 20 kWh a day and most EVs have over 60 kWh available in their battery packs. EV batteries are more than capable of handling the a house's needs. The math works and it's really not that hard to do. In fact I'm planning on getting a home battery specifically to run my cold climate heat pump (and the rest of the house) so I'll have AC in the summer and heat in the winter when the grid goes down plus lights and fridges and stuff. It's the way to go, no fuel, no maintenance, no needing to test it monthly or whatever, no noise or exhaust fumes. I'm even planning on putting solar panels on the car port and back pergola so it'll recharge during the day during an outage. My house will be semi-off-grid. And you can do neat things like peak-shaving so it'll be useful for more than just blackouts. I'll be able to charge it up overnight when energy is cheap and run off battery & solar during peak hours when the grid is expensive.