Door Handles

[Phenix]

Normal Door Handles!
Every EV startup is trying to mimic Tesla and going to the hidden door handles with capacitive touch open/close with cinching motors on the latches. Gimmicks that fail often and aren’t needed.
I believe this vehicle would be better served with a nice robust handle and latch. Look at the great success of the G-Wagon latch and handle. It’s iconic so they leave it alone and everyone loves it.
I personally would even like a nice buff handle on the back hatch/gate.
I want to rip that door open and slam it without thinking I’m going to break something.

 

[Rustic_father]

The reason there are so many gimmicks is to make the handle as low profile as possible to Improve aerodynamics.

Another reason that Tesla has electric door handles is that the window is slotted under the trim(also to improve aerodynamics) so the electric handle allows the window to retract a little first before the door is opened.

Vw’s ID4 has some of the most traditional looking handles out of the EVs that I can think of. It also has the design feature of being a button under the button but is able to mechanically hinge to unlock the door if the power is out.

 

[LastDayScout]

Normal Door Handles!
Every EV startup is trying to mimic Tesla and going to the hidden door handles with capacitive touch open/close with cinching motors on the latches. Gimmicks that fail often and aren’t needed.
I believe this vehicle would be better served with a nice robust handle and latch. Look at the great success of the G-Wagon latch and handle. It’s iconic so they leave it alone and everyone loves it.
I personally would even like a nice buff handle on the back hatch/gate.
I want to rip that door open and slam it without thinking I’m going to break something.

I have a Tesla and 100 % agree with you. My kids had to teach the teachers in the carpool line how to open the doors. Ridiculous!

 

[Chris@ScoutMotors]

I have a Tesla and 100 % agree with you. My kids had to teach the teachers in the carpool line how to open the doors. Ridiculous!

This conjured a great image in my head.

 

[Chris@ScoutMotors]

Normal Door Handles!
Every EV startup is trying to mimic Tesla and going to the hidden door handles with capacitive touch open/close with cinching motors on the latches. Gimmicks that fail often and aren’t needed.
I believe this vehicle would be better served with a nice robust handle and latch. Look at the great success of the G-Wagon latch and handle. It’s iconic so they leave it alone and everyone loves it.
I personally would even like a nice buff handle on the back hatch/gate.
I want to rip that door open and slam it without thinking I’m going to break something.

Definitely some feedback we'll take to the team. I know the designers have door handles on the radar for sure, and the best way to approach them. An interesting aspect about the handles, that one of our designers brought up, was that the handles are one of the parts of the car that users touch the most, and as such create a subconscious identity to the vehicle. When you touch or interact with the doorhandle, you know it's whatever car you're driving, so they're focused on making sure it's the right handle for the car.

Obviously aero is being taken into consideration, but so is identity, tactics, and practicality. Want to make sure that the type of handle on the cars fits the needs of the car and the users.

Appreciate the feedback though. We send over a monthly updated to the teams, company-wide, with feedback on all these details, so keep them coming!

 

[Phenix]

The reason there are so many gimmicks is to make the handle as low profile as possible to Improve aerodynamics.

Another reason that Tesla has electric door handles is that the window is slotted under the trim(also to improve aerodynamics) so the electric handle allows the window to retract a little first before the door is opened.

Vw’s ID4 has some of the most traditional looking handles out of the EVs that I can think of. It also has the design feature of being a button under the button but is able to mechanically hinge to unlock the door if the power is out.

You are correct on the aerodynamic aspect of the flush handles. However, there are many designs over the years that are flush without making them flimsy plastic buttons that automatically present. Many exotics come to mind like Mclaren.

As for examples of semi traditional type door handles, thankfully the entire EV range for VAG is an actual handle. All of the Etrons have the actuated door pops, but in a loss of power event you can pull harder to release via cable. Even the new I.D. Buzz has handles.

 

[Phenix]

Definitely some feedback we'll take to the team. I know the designers have door handles on the radar for sure, and the best way to approach them. An interesting aspect about the handles, that one of our designers brought up, was that the handles are one of the parts of the car that users touch the most, and as such create a subconscious identity to the vehicle. When you touch or interact with the doorhandle, you know it's whatever car you're driving, so they're focused on making sure it's the right handle for the car.

Obviously aero is being taken into consideration, but so is identity, tactics, and practicality. Want to make sure that the type of handle on the cars fits the needs of the car and the users.

Appreciate the feedback though. We send over a monthly updated to the teams, company-wide, with feedback on all these details, so keep them coming!

I sit in packaging meetings on a regular. Biggest suggestion I can offer is to make sure you have service teams in the packaging meetings early. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve said “what if that part fails, how do I remove it?” Or “That part might not fail, but the part under will, what is the cost of replacement with labor?” Only to hear “that’s a good point, but design was already approved and tooling made. That minor change would cost millions.”
I for sure have many thoughts to share. I am beyond excited for what this can be. I’ll keep them rolling when I can make time.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I sit in packaging meetings on a regular. Biggest suggestion I can offer is to make sure you have service teams in the packaging meetings early. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve said “what if that part fails, how do I remove it?” Or “That part might not fail, but the part under will, what is the cost of replacement with labor?” Only to hear “that’s a good point, but design was already approved and tooling made. That minor change would cost millions.”
I for sure have many thoughts to share. I am beyond excited for what this can be. I’ll keep them rolling when I can make time.

One of the neat things about most VW Group products is that the Germans tend to think through the service side and easy removal/repair (not always perfect of course). For instance, the Beetle headlamp has a quarter-turn finger ring that you release, and the whole unit slides out of the fender to replace the bulb. Alignment tabs are there to slide it back in without having to adjust alignment again. Door handles on past models were pretty easy to repair/replace if necessary. On the other hand, I had a friend with a Malibu and we had to remove the whole front bumper to replace a turn signal bulb.

 

[Phenix]

One of the neat things about most VW Group products is that the Germans tend to think through the service side and easy removal/repair (not always perfect of course). For instance, the Beetle headlamp has a quarter-turn finger ring that you release, and the whole unit slides out of the fender to replace the bulb. Alignment tabs are there to slide it back in without having to adjust alignment again. Door handles on past models were pretty easy to repair/replace if necessary. On the other hand, I had a friend with a Malibu and we had to remove the whole front bumper to replace a turn signal bulb.

I was a tech with Audi for almost 10 years. I love the VAG and still drive their products. Much is missed in recent years though. Prime example the evaporators on current generation Q5 that require the windshield to be removed to access one bolt. That should have been caught and corrected very early on.

 

[Rustic_father]

I sit in packaging meetings on a regular. Biggest suggestion I can offer is to make sure you have service teams in the packaging meetings early. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve said “what if that part fails, how do I remove it?” Or “That part might not fail, but the part under will, what is the cost of replacement with labor?” Only to hear “that’s a good point, but design was already approved and tooling made. That minor change would cost millions.”
I for sure have many thoughts to share. I am beyond excited for what this can be. I’ll keep them rolling when I can make time.

As a mechanic I also agree with everything you wrote

 

[J Alynn]

While I appreciate ingenuity I think any argument for aerodynamics on a vehicle that is essentially a box on wheels is kinda funny. I think 4 handles projecting out of the “box” has minimal impact. That said I’m a fan of the designer’s thoughts regarding touch points. I also think the first time you’re parked in the mud or next to ice you are going to appreciate the physical handles to keep your Rear end off the ground

 

[LastDayScout]

This is the door handle for an 80s-early 2000s door handle. Flush, metal, robust, mechanical, etc.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I was a tech with Audi for almost 10 years. I love the VAG and still drive their products. Much is missed in recent years though. Prime example the evaporators on current generation Q5 that require the windshield to be removed to access one bolt. That should have been caught and corrected very early on.

Like I mentioned, not in all cases...

No manufacturer is immune or perfect. Heck, I'm sure my post will come back to haunt me a few years down the road.

 

[Phenix]

Like I mentioned, not in all cases...

No manufacturer is immune or perfect. Heck, I'm sure my post will come back to haunt me a few years down the road.

Oh certainly. Still love the products, but there’s always room for improvement. No brand is perfect and it’s only getting more difficult the more we add technology to these computers with wheels under them.
Now that I’m on the corporate/engineering side of the auto industry I respect the flaws far more than I ever did as a tech.

 

[Rustic_father]

While I appreciate ingenuity I think any argument for aerodynamics on a vehicle that is essentially a box on wheels is kinda funny. I think 4 handles projecting out of the “box” has minimal impact. That said I’m a fan of the designer’s thoughts regarding touch points. I also think the first time you’re parked in the mud or next to ice you are going to appreciate the physical handles to keep your Rear end off the ground

you would be surprised. while a traditional box front with a radiator is very UN-aerodynamic but when you introduce even a slight curve or even some air channels the front can be "fairly" aerodynamic.

one EV start up called Aptera boasts that their whole car has the same drag coefficient as a ford F150's side mirror. With that being said the aptera is not a piratical car that any normal person could even want to own....but what it does demonstrate is that even small components can have large ammounts of drag that can be reduced.

The cyber truck (not a fan...just putting it out there) has some interesting aerodynamic characteristics despite it's sharp design. the sharp angle at the peak of the truck actually provides less drag than a traditionally shaped hood/windshield/roof.

one other design difference to consider is that typically very boxy style trucks have exposed wheel wells or other characteristics that show aerodynamics are not taken into account at all. A spinning wheel has a lot of drag, and if the fender and bumper can properly divert the air around it then it greatly will improve aerodynamics.

long story is that just because it is boxy some subtle "wind management" can still make the vehicle aerodynamic.....it won't be sleek but it won't be worse on the highway like a wrangler or bronco.

edit: after writing this post i was looking at some of the pictures of scouts in the registry and i'm seeing lots of subtle curves around the front grill....i don't see it as very hard to incorporate those slight curves into the modern design to improve the aerodynamics.

 

[LastDayScout]

This is the door handle for an 80s-early 2000s door handle. Flush, metal, robust, mechanical, etc.
View attachment 569

I meant to add “from International S series and 4000 series trucks”.